Americans' Hearts in the Right Place

With all the "Americans are horrible people" threads, I thought I'd try to put the average American into perspective.

Whenever the American Government wished to go to war with a country, Americans were always sold on the idea that the reason for going to war with that particular country was to either liberate people, to help them build a democracy, to save them from a dictator, or to save them from an approaching enemy. The average American citizen didn't want to go to war to terrorize foreigners, to kill innocent bystanders, to dominate some country or to force them to live by the same rules they live by. Yes, there might have been some Americans who have bad intentions and enjoy the violence (every race, country and culture will have evil-doers), but the greater majority wishes only to help. They sacrifice their sons, daughters, fathers and mothers, and themselves in order to fight for what they perceive to be a good cause.

Politicians know very well that in order to sell war they must make it seem as though we are going overseas to rescue, liberate and help bring justice. They have never tried to sell war by saying "We're going over there because we want and need their resources, and we will get them by any means necessary". They also don't try to sell us war by saying "We've got a few corrupt friends who are having problems with these people, and we need to 'scratch their back' so that they don't spill all of our dirty little secrets".

My point is that the average American is actually a very giving person. Due to the liberties we enjoy here (and yes, there's plenty of us who will argue that these liberties are nothing but illusions) we feel that people are truly happier and better off living under the same perceived liberties. I personally have lived in a couple of different countries and I've experienced Communism. I (and many other immigrants who came here) can tell you that the liberties you have here as Americans are far more reaching than you can imagine. It's difficult to know this when you haven't experienced the lives of people who came here in search of the freedoms you enjoy. They are not perfect freedoms, but they are far better than some of the other places around the world.

Despite the good American citizen majority in this country, there are a few people up at the top who control what happens with this country. They lie, cheat and steal under the guise of do-gooders. They are wolves in sheep's clothing, and it can be VERY difficult for the average American to discern what is truth and what is a lie. Some don't want to believe that their leaders are misleading them. Some don't suspect a thing until it is too late. With the power of major media outlets those few evil-doers at the top will twist the facts until they have good Americans convinced that war is indeed the only answer. Even we here on ATS sometimes have a very difficult time trying to separate fact from fiction!!! What hope does the average person have?

So, as an immigrant to this country I would like to present to you this more positive picture of the average American,.... a person who is simply trying to live his or her life as best as they can, and help out whenever possible. Battling the deception is not easy, and one must be on the look-out no matter what country you may be from. There is no Government on this planet who is completely honest with it's citizens. We make decisions based on the facts we are presented with. To learn the ultimate truth is a much more difficult thing than it seems. The web of lies is deep and nearly impossible to untangle. Keep this in mind when you judge the character of an American.
This is only my personal observation and opinion.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Finally! A voice of reason!

We Canadians (And I believe I might be speaking for many) Don't hate American people as a whole. Just dirty, corrupt, unethical Govt and bankers. Also, the RAH,RAH attitude of SOME Americans gets a little unnerving at best. But...

In general, people around the World are the same. We hate war, corruption and corp greed. And yes, we have that in Canada as well.

So don't hate Americans because of an invisible border, just the A$$holes that are turning us against each other. If we allow TPTB to do that, they win.

Couldnt have said it better myself.
We just have to o something about it now.
Time is short.

Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

I think you have a very cynical view of people. Maybe you've encountered a lot of bad people in your life. It happens. I've talked to a few people who seemed like they didn't care (Americans and other nationalities), but that is not the case with the majority of the population. I don't pay taxes because I want to fund the war or the killing of innocent people, I pay taxes because if I don't pay them, I will most likely be hauled off to jail. It is easy for somebody to say "just don't pay taxes" or "go protest", but if the rest of the country doesn't join you in revolting, all that will happen is that your life as you know it will be over. While you call this life "imprisonment", I call it freedom. Since my family has experienced a true lack of freedom in our former country of origin, I guess we feel that this is the most free country we've had the pleasure to live in. There comes a point where you have to choose what cage you want to live in. You will always (as a human being) live in a cage, the question is how big is it and how far can you fly within it's confines?

By your definition every person on this planet is responsible for murder of innocents. The purchase of certain products supports the torture of innocent people somewhere in the world. By that definition we are all equally guilty. What we can do is try to make conscious decisions, but even then there will be times when our seemingly-innocent actions will support something evil somewhere in the world. Is it healthy to constantly feel guilty over everything that happens? Probably not. The only thing you can do is try to lead your life as best as you can.

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

I vote you move to Somalia or one of the "more special" places and see what living in a place with no morality is all about.

"fight the system"
"don't pay taxes"
"don't fund the wars"
"fire all corrupt politicians"
"make a stand - screw your job - protest, don't work"
"turn off your TV and do -- well, just do something!"

That all sounds really good and ideal.....but completely impractical for real life. I've had family members not pay taxes and watched as the IRS consumed their life bit by bit. The stress alone took years off their lives. It doesn't make it right, but it makes it true.

The only way to end the system is to have an overwhelming number of Americans refuse to go to work -- that's means everyone folks -- and refuse to get paid [in place of sick pay, etc] That will end the forced withdrawal of taxes from paychecks which will quickly defund the government. Obviously small businesses, et al, would merely stop filing their estimated taxes payments.

We must also boycott ALL non-American made products -- not just assembled in, but actually made in the USA are all we should buy. And yes, I actually know how little would be in stores. Good luck with that. Nobody really teaches food growing and clothes making anymore.

However, without massive -- I mean 100 million people -- it will never work. The government will just start hiring even more IRS agents and pay them ridiculous amounts of money to deal with anyone that attempted this. With a small number, you will find yourself unemployed, broke, homeless, and harassed by the government for life. In large numbers, something would change.

But to sit there and say -- because we pay taxes we are in agreement with the government's actions -- is wrong, childish, and absurd.

This thread is about how the average American feels -- and I agree with all of it.

Our government has grown into an uncontrollable beast and many didn't realize what had happened until it was over. This does not make them stupid, nor does it make the government brilliant. Little by little, as taxes went up and we contributed more, we had to work more to pay more. The more we work, the less we can pay attention. The more we worked, the more "toys" we bought that kept us even more occupied. It was a long drawn out game of divide and conquer, penny by penny, over the course of several generations. If we lived like the Chinese with all of our elders in the same house, perhaps we would have caught on quicker. However, we were taught that the "successful" people bought their own house, so we did. Plus, weren't we trying to create a "culture"? Divide and conquer.

However, this does not mean that now that some are aware, they are in agreement. It simply means they don't know what to do about it.

And frankly, from what I've read, not many on ATS know what to do either.

"Storm your local municipal building", as I've seen mentioned a couple of times, isn't going to cut it. Mine has about 5 full-time workers.

"Dump the big banks" is another idea thrown around a lot, and I moved my money locally last summer, but my mortgage -- can't do anything about that. Corporate credit cards are a necessity for work and I can't change the issuer on those either. With mortgages and corporations still paying -- you think BOA even notices I left?

I believe the majority of Americans believe we are on the wrong track. I also believe a majority of Americans are scared and have no idea when they are going to hit bottom or how -- they just know it's getting worse. There is also an entire other segment so happy to be employed and make their mortgage payments, even partial payments, they are afraid to sneeze for the house of cards will surely fall.

I do have a cynical view of people. People are the reason other people suffer. People deflect responsibility and accountability. People KILL people! How can I be a fan of such evil people?

As for the tax issue, Its easy to say what you are saying if you are unaware of the LAW. According to the "Law", nobody has the right to deprive me of life liberty and happiness, yet its done everyday. The Law never mentions taxing my nontaxable income. You need to look into something called expatriating and UCC 1-308, it might change your life. I am an American citizen and the only law that has jurisdiction over me is Common Law, no maritime, admiralty, or equity laws apply to a sovereign American. I haven't filled taxes in 5 years and haven't received a single document from the IRS.

Get it out of your head that there is some fairy tale law that requires you to pay or go to jail, ask an honest attorney if you don't believe me, or better yet do some research. Become a sovereign, it is an amazing experience with endless benefits. If not, continue funding your enemy, great strategy!

reply to post by raiders247


Perhaps a thread, completely outlining the process you went through, including the pros and cons, any pitfalls, etc., would be beneficial to many, many people.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

I vote you move to Somalia or one of the "more special" places and see what living in a place with no morality is all about.

Why would i move from one immoral country to another? Its black and white to me, either your moral or immoral, sure there are extremes, but the basis is still the basis, a lack of morals leaves you with immorality.

Originally posted by raiders247

I do have a cynical view of people. People are the reason other people suffer. People deflect responsibility and accountability. People KILL people! How can I be a fan of such evil people?

As for the tax issue, Its easy to say what you are saying if you are unaware of the LAW. According to the "Law", nobody has the right to deprive me of life liberty and happiness, yet its done everyday. The Law never mentions taxing my nontaxable income. You need to look into something called expatriating and UCC 1-308, it might change your life. I am an American citizen and the only law that has jurisdiction over me is Common Law, no maritime, admiralty, or equity laws apply to a sovereign American. I haven't filled taxes in 5 years and haven't received a single document from the IRS.

Get it out of your head that there is some fairy tale law that requires you to pay or go to jail, ask an honest attorney if you don't believe me, or better yet do some research. Become a sovereign, it is an amazing experience with endless benefits. If not, continue funding your enemy, great strategy!

If you know so much about avoiding paying taxes the legal way, maybe this is something you should try to spread to the populace. I'm sure there are millions of people who would be happy to learn how to get around paying taxes. You can help by providing the necessary steps.

People do kill people, but not everybody kills people. I personally have never killed anyone, and aside from a few friends in the Marines, I don't know anybody who's ever tried killing anyone. That's life. How do you think cows or chickens feel every day? Death and struggle is part of life on earth. Species prey on each other every single day. Instead of pointing out all the negative things in life, it's important to recognize those who try hard to lead their lives without ever intentionally hurting anyone. To reward do-gooders with positive attention is to encourage others to behave in a positive way. To stomp all over somebody and tell them they're murderers of innocents isn't going to bring a smile to their face, and certainly isn't going to help them get in a better mood. To spend your life feeling negative about everything around you is of no help to anyone, including yourself.

Originally posted by raiders247

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

I vote you move to Somalia or one of the "more special" places and see what living in a place with no morality is all about.

Why would i move from one immoral country to another? Its black and white to me, either your moral or immoral, sure there are extremes, but the basis is still the basis, a lack of morals leaves you with immorality.

It sounds to me like you're unhappy with the entire world and with human beings in general. It sounds to me like there is no country or culture on the face of this earth that would make you happy. That is a difficult predicament to be in. I think many of us are trying to improve, to be better people, but it is going to take many years, maybe centuries until the human race learns to coexist without victimizing each other. I suggest you find a way to be happy despite our shortcomings, because as hard as we try, they will not disappear anytime soon.

reply to post by lpowell0627


I will make a thread about my own process soon, but there are also many others on ATS that have all the info one would need. This process isn't for anyone that isn't willing to learn everything about the law, which took a great deal of time. Theres a reason lawyers go to school for 7 years. The legal system is 1 gigantic game and you have to know the rules to beat it, once you figure out the little gimmicks and tricks that are already in place it's a piece of cake really. If anyone is interested in not being a slave anymore, try googling the following:

UCC 1-207/1-308
Common Law
Unalienable Rights
Magna Carta
Reserving/ Not reserving your rights
The law of the land
The law of the sea
US citizen vs. American Citizen
US incorporating itself after going bankrupt
Birth Certificate as collateral for national debt
Why constitutional rights don't apply in most courts
Jurisdiction of Maritime, Admiralty, Military, Equity, and Common Law

Theres a lot of things to search and read up on, this is just a little bit to get you nudged in the right direction. I will take your advice though and make a thread detailing my process, it's a whole lot easier than you might think, it just takes forbidden knowledge

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Yes I understand there are tons of people who never "intentionally" try to do bad deeds, however, that doesn't change the facts Just because you intended to safely, responsibly, coherently travel from Los Angeles to San Fransisco still doesn't negate the fact that you're putting blood money into the gas tank to get there. Doesnt change the fact that you are supporting and funding the same people that are determined to make life very difficult for us average joes..Ignorance is no excuse right? So we cant just ignore the negative repercussions because whether acknowledged or not, they still exist. What you are suggesting reminds me of kindergarten school, where I'll get rewarded just for showing up with a smile on my face. We cant stop to pat everybody on the back because even the so called "doers of good" are having a negative impact thats much greater than the good they are doing. I personally am not concerned with smiles on faces, and people's moods improving. I'm concerned with the amount of ignorance we all show when it comes to the negative consequences of our actions.

BTW, I'm a very happy guy, I've found true happiness and it only took me 3 decades. The only sorrow I have in life is seeing others suffer due to our ignorance.

reply to post by lpowell0627

But to sit there and say -- because we pay taxes we are in agreement with the government's actions -- is wrong, childish, and absurd.


Never said you agreed with it, that would make you satanic. All I said is that you support them by funding. I'd call it ignorance over anything else, not an agreement though.

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

It is because of money that Humans are so twisted. The money creates greed creates poor behavior towards others creates oppressed creates desperation creates fear...

If we get rid of the need for money, the true love of Humankind will shine. (And we'll get rid of taxes!)

Originally posted by AOA2012
Couldnt have said it better myself.
We just have to o something about it now.
Time is short.

I offer ideas towards that end. I would be honored if you and any others here read The End of Entropy and The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform, linked in my sig. Yes, time is VERY short, and so, if you too see a solution in the ideas, pass them on to all you can.

And if you read, thank you.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by raiders247
Sorry bro but as a fellow American, I am disgusted with the lack of compassion, humanity, and love shown by the average American. If you're a US citizen, then you pay taxes. If you pay taxes you are funding your own imprisonment not to mention the slaughtering of innocent men, women, and children all over the world. Stop pretending to be innocent, you may be ignorant, but you sure aren't innocent. No American is, not even me.

It is because of money that Humans are so twisted. The money creates greed creates poor behavior towards others creates oppressed creates desperation creates fear...

If we get rid of the need for money, the true love of Humankind will shine. (And we'll get rid of taxes!)

Eliminating money is not going to make the world a better place. I can almost guarantee it. Paper money, gold or any other form of payment has no power over us. What we choose to do with our form of payment is all that matters. It is people who become greedy. These people are the same people who will refuse to share a piece of bread with you for fear that there will be less of it left for them.

You have to understand that inanimate objects are not good or evil. A gun and bullets without a human hand and human intent can do no harm. A man intending to hurt you can do harm with a gun if he so chooses. Money, guns, knives and bombs are only tools. They can be used for good or evil.

The only way the world will become a better place is if people start working together and help each other. That means nobody can take advantage of each other. We can't have some people who do all the helping, and some people who play victims and let good people take care of them. It means everyone puts their fair share of work into it, and everyone tries to do their best. It's the only way.

Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Yes I understand there are tons of people who never "intentionally" try to do bad deeds, however, that doesn't change the facts Just because you intended to safely, responsibly, coherently travel from Los Angeles to San Fransisco still doesn't negate the fact that you're putting blood money into the gas tank to get there. Doesnt change the fact that you are supporting and funding the same people that are determined to make life very difficult for us average joes..Ignorance is no excuse right? So we cant just ignore the negative repercussions because whether acknowledged or not, they still exist. What you are suggesting reminds me of kindergarten school, where I'll get rewarded just for showing up with a smile on my face. We cant stop to pat everybody on the back because even the so called "doers of good" are having a negative impact thats much greater than the good they are doing. I personally am not concerned with smiles on faces, and people's moods improving. I'm concerned with the amount of ignorance we all show when it comes to the negative consequences of our actions.

BTW, I'm a very happy guy, I've found true happiness and it only took me 3 decades. The only sorrow I have in life is seeing others suffer due to our ignorance.

I don't have the solution to this problem. Oil is used all over the world by everybody, including the people who's lands the oil belongs to. Oil is used to produce plastics (your computer is made of them), medicines, fabrics, fertilizer, ink in your pen, asphalt, preservatives for canned foods, etc. etc. etc. The list is far too long to discuss. We're talking innumerable products which are being used by all of us, all over the world. These products not only make all of our lives easier, but they have also saved millions of lives. Their existence has had many beneficial effects on society as a whole. Do I agree with the way oil is obtained? No. I wish we could come to a peaceful agreement on sharing this resource. One country attempts to hold the resource hostage, and another country tries to take it by force. It is a highly valuable commodity, and the world recognizes that.

The question I have for you is what are YOU doing about it? Will you stop using your computer, TV or camera? Will you stop buying your milk and juice because the plastic it is in was made from oil? Will you stop using asphalt roads to reach your daily destinations? Will you stop eating preserved food, or buying clothes? Is it possible to go through modern life without using oil-based products? Not at this time. Unless you move into the woods and start living in a rock cave, make your own tools out of wood, metal and rock, by your definition you risk being guilty of the murder of innocents. What do you propose we do?

I am not suggesting that you put a smile on your face and pretend that everything is alright. I'm not asking you to ignore the problems of the world and stay ignorant of them. All I am saying is that positive behavior can go a long way in influencing others to try to be better people. We can't simultaneously force everyone to be better people all at once. It takes one at a time, and it has to start somewhere... namely with you and I.

You have to understand that by being a better person you can inspire others to make more conscious decisions in their every-day life. The 16 year old kid that you treat in a positive manner may someday grow up to be a politician or the president, or someone with the ability to lead. The way you treat that person may have a profound effect on him, which may help him to make better and more ethical decisions as a leader. Maybe he'll be the first leader to try to obtain resources for our country in an honest and ethical way. Maybe he'll be the one who will refuse to sacrifice our soldiers and people of a foreign country for the sake of any resource.

I think you should be concerned with putting people in a better mood. Whoever heard of depression being the solution to anything?

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Eliminating money is not going to make the world a better place. I can almost guarantee it. Paper money, gold or any other form of payment has no power over us. What we choose to do with our form of payment is all that matters. It is people who become greedy. These people are the same people who will refuse to share a piece of bread with you for fear that there will be less of it left for them.

In abundance, "greed" has no meaning. If we all can have as much as we want, how would "greed" be defined? And with no "payment" except in the form of reputation, people will be motivated to contribute positively, best solutions will be prized (as opposed to the most cost-efficient or most profitable), and social friction will be reduced as none must deal with those they don't like on any regular basis.

You have to understand that inanimate objects are not good or evil. A gun and bullets without a human hand and human intent can do no harm. A man intending to hurt you can do harm with a gun if he so chooses. Money, guns, knives and bombs are only tools. They can be used for good or evil.

Oh, I understand that very well.

The only way the world will become a better place is if people start working together and help each other. That means nobody can take advantage of each other. We can't have some people who do all the helping, and some people who play victims and let good people take care of them. It means everyone puts their fair share of work into it, and everyone tries to do their best. It's the only way.

If changing the behavior of people in a system that promotes greed, rewards ruthlessness, allows some to hold power over others and allows corruption, is the only solution, the solution is bound to fail. We WILL have some helping and others victimized or taking advantage of solutions in place to help victims. The only solution, then, is to eliminate such systems entirely.

Get rid of the need for money. Please visit my threads, The End of Entropy (best read first, as this is the foundational piece) and The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform (the structural piece), linked in my sig.