ATS: Saudi Hospitals Confiscate Mobile Cameras

Saudi Arabia officially bans the use of cell phone cameras, but have recently started cracking down on their widespread use because the attrocities of the nation are getting out. They have begun a wide spread program to confiscate the illegal cell phone cameras especially when they are seen in publid places.



There are several things that are disturbing about this article. The most obvious is that Saudi Arabia, our ally is such an oppressive country that camera phones are outlawed. More intriguing, at least to me, is the handling of this story. The heart of the story is the rape of a poor woman that got broadcast on the internet due to the use of a camera phone. Now was the woman’s story told at all? Was there any play to the sympathy due to her plight? Was there any suggestion that the men or boys who perpetrated this crime needed to be sought out and punished? No, no, and no. Now you might make the argument that the focus of the story is on camera phone use and you would be right in your statement but would miss the point that the injustice here has little to do with phones yet it is the phones that have made the front page. This is the kind of nation that Saudi Arabia is. Women are chattel!! The truth is that while publicly the Saudis decry such behavior, behind the scenes it takes place all too frequently. In fact once you are a wife in Saudi Arabia your husband cannot rape you. A woman gives up the few rights she has when she marries and becomes completely the property of her husband. It is truly a double standard that while you can be killed for raping a woman not your wife you will barely be punished if you rape and murder your wife. Yet we stand by as a nation and support the Saudis even when they try to ban camera phones because they have aired their dirty laundry.

Related News Links:

The original story of the rape 209.157.64.200

British nurses molested by Saudi police
news.bbc.co.uk

[edit on 19-7-2004 by Nerdling]

[edit on 20-7-2004 by Kano]

The House of Saud, our good friends. Is this really the type of government the US should be supporting? I am just perplexed that republicans fail to understand why arab countries are royally PO'd at the US. Maybe with some pictures and if I write it in big bold letters it will help.

THE US SUPPORTS GOVERNMENTS THAT PROVIDE NO HUMAN RIGHTS TO THEIR PEOPLE.
.

Just one question. have you been there to know this for yourself?

well my father worked there and my mother lived there, and i was born there, and we have many family freinds there.

their society is so perfect that crime is virtually non existant.

unfortunately the women do not have amount of rights that the men have, but this does not mean that they are disrespected or abused.

Physical and mental abuse of women (especially rape) is 100 times more prevalent in the west then in the east

If Saudi society is so perfect why do they feel they have to ban camera phones? What do they have to hide? If they are so perfect why are American women being held hostage in SA as told of in the link from the original story? Crime in Saudi Arabia is lower because they kill and maim their "criminals". Far from being a perfect society it is a barbaric one.

The relationship between the U.S. government and the House of Saud is complex, and undergoing slow but historic changes.

As for the realities of Saudi society, I am reminded of the adage that we do not get the government we want, but the government we deserve.

Sobering words for anyone to consider.

Originally posted by Majicwe do not get the government we want, but the government we deserve.

I think most muslims could accept that as fact, if their government were not imposed on them at the end of US produced weapons. This isn't really a republican/democrat issue as both parties support this type stuff, but it is just more fun to beat on republicans.
.

Perhaps Russian, French or Chinese-made weapons would be considered less "oppressive".

Originally posted by df1
The House of Saud, our good friends. Is this really the type of government the US should be supporting? I am just perplexed that republicans fail to understand why arab countries are royally PO'd at the US. Maybe with some pictures and if I write it in big bold letters it will help.

THE US SUPPORTS GOVERNMENTS THAT PROVIDE NO HUMAN RIGHTS TO THEIR PEOPLE.
.

Because they disallow mobile phones with cams? Hey, some news for you tough guy! The US army and many others banned stuff like cam mobile phones and mp3 players/usb-sticks.

I will cry it loud because I am a little kid, maybe that helps(parallelism alert!):
THE US TAKES AWAY THE FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT TO USE A CAM MOBILE PHONE!

I hope this cam stuff will get banned in our countries asap as well. Why? I don't really like to be photographed without permission and this happens like 10000 times more with those damn cam mobile phones and THIS takes away my rights to be asked for permission for a photo.

Originally posted by df1
THE US SUPPORTS GOVERNMENTS THAT PROVIDE NO HUMAN RIGHTS TO THEIR PEOPLE.

Indeed. Why isn't Bush ranting about how Saudi Arabia should be a 'free nation' like the U.S and Iraq which is now a 'democracy'. Let me think really hard.......

When you see this Administration supporting countries that do not care for human rights it just helps you to see through all that 'SAddam was a bad man' and 'we went there to give the people freedom' bull# that Bush ranted after they realised they couldn't lie about WMD's anymore. They dont really care! They really really don't care. You have to realise that the only things that will motivate these people to do stuff like that is either power, money or oil. Saudi give America alot of two of these things and thats why they are supported.

earthtone: You are on to an important principle.

Don't buy the propaganda. There are far more fundamental things going on here. While I wouldn't say the U.S. government "doesn't care" about human rights and all that feel-good stuff, they definitely must compete with other interests, and usually lose.

Some, who think more with their gonads than their brains, will brand that "evil", while ignoring the evil that swirls around them every day of their lives. That choice is theirs to make. But it is a choice to EMBRACE IGNORANCE.

The truth is that the U.S. is making a play for Saudi Arabia, but you never heard that from me. There's doings a-transpiring.

Children can whine about being bored and things taking so long. Adults who are paying attention are riveted.

Many things we take for granted are being changed even now, as we deliberate about them.

A new world is rising.

earthtone: Indeed. Why isn't Bush ranting about how Saudi Arabia should be a 'free nation' like the U.S and Iraq which is now a 'democracy'. Let me think really hard.......

Because the bush/bin laden family business would be impacted negatively. This is the clown that let the bin ladens fly out of the country the day of 9/11. He didnt even let the bodies from the towers get cold.

Iraq a democracy? I'd laugh in your face if not for all the dead. All the Iraqis have in Iraq are new slave masters with designs on stealing the natural resources from those people.

It amazing that you must think really hard when truth stares you in the face. Apparently you can't accept the truth as it would crush the myth created by your mental gymnasitcs.

Cams will show even you truth. I suppose you'll be able to close your eyes, but everyone around you will know which will be enough satisfaction for me.
******************

majic: human rights and all that feel-good stuff, they definitely must compete with other interest

OIL

majic: U.S. is making a play for Saudi Arabia

Read, stealing the OIL from the saudi people after the current dictatorial conspirators are gone.

majic: A new world is rising

New world rising my butt. The same old world with the same old oil companies having a strangle hold on the OIL.
******************

shoo: I hope this cam stuff will get banned in our countries asap as well. Why?

And just what are you doing that you want to hide? I bet your one of those folks that thinks warrantless police searches are ok. I have no doubt that you think highway cams are a great thing. Well baby the chickens are coming home to roost. Making them illegal will not save you when pictures start showing up an ATS and other places.
******************

Cams are an issue because they are able to show the truth just like they showed the truth about US troops in Iraq. All of you good people will no longer be able to feign ignorance, you will no longer be able to hide your crimes and you will no longer be able to hide your immorality. So much for your moral high ground, cams will rub the truth in your face and let your neighbors see you in the same light.

Cams are small now and getting smaller. I can't wait for my "button cam".


Smile, You're On Candid Camera, whether you like it or not.
.

I have to agree with majic. There is a much bigger picture in our relationship with the land of Saud. First there is the fact that the country is the center of the Islam. Any overt American attempts to depose a Saudi ruler would be met with a huge muslim backlash. Second they are the largest oil reserve in the world. While I am all for bringing freedom to countries that need it I do not think we should do so if it risks our way of life. Now if there was an internal movement in SA to depose their leadership and replace it with a more freedom loving one, I think we should covertly support it but to do anything overtly against one of the best footholds we have in the Arab muslim world is geopolitical suicide and would deeply wound American interests on a global scale.

Thank you Majic. Excellent points, all.
Cameras and the ability to distribute images and information via the internet are among our most potent tools against tyranny. "Officials" don't like to be exposed when they behave badly, which it seems is quite often. Images of their misdeeds have a tendency to neutralize their self-serving propaganda.

Just one question. have you been there to know this for yourself?

well my father worked there and my mother lived there, and i was born there, and we have many family freinds there.

their society is so perfect that crime is virtually non existant.

unfortunately the women do not have amount of rights that the men have, but this does not mean that they are disrespected or abused.

Physical and mental abuse of women (especially rape) is 100 times more prevalent in the west then in the east

I have lived there. True, "reported" crime is pretty low, as there are no appeals to getting your HAND cut off....

Women have virtually NO rights, not just fewer. When I was there, they couldn't even DRIVE a damn car...(though I think I heard this changed recently).

The abuse of women isn't more prevalent in the West, it's just that it's REPORTED more. Those women who report it in Saudi Arabia are either laughed at, and/or simply abused more.

Saudi society perfect? Not hardly... Try buying a "legitimate" cd or tape, dvd, etc. anywhere... You can't if you try, it's ALL black market. Same for many other goods. This is just one indicator of crime. They have their share of violent crime too, just that you won't see it on government sponsored and censored news and television. Do they still have the one channel of nothing but pilgrims walking around the Khabah all day and night?

Originally posted by ashol
While I am all for bringing freedom to countries that need it I do not think we should do so if it risks our way of life.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to do what is right, as long as you do not suffer any personal inconvenience. As long as you can have $30 per barrel oil, the hell with everybody else. Soldiers can sacrifice their lives, 3rd world citizens can be murdered and children can suffer horrible atrocities, but as long your way of life isn't inconvenienced, it's all good.

No doubt you or someone else will respond with some trite rationalization, but this is what you are supporting. At least be honest with yourself.
.

Originally posted by df1
And just what are you doing that you want to hide?

I have nothing to hide but something called privacy and rights as a human. I don't want to be in the situation that everybody can take pictures of mine whenever he wants, press record and send audio and video which he recorded directly via internet to other people.

I bet your one of those folks that thinks warrantless police searches are ok. I have no doubt that you think highway cams are a great thing. Well baby the chickens are coming home to roost. Making them illegal will not save you when pictures start showing up an ATS and other places.

What a stupid conclusion oh my god, what a fool.

Originally posted by shoo

I have nothing to hide but something called privacy and rights as a human. I don't want to be in the situation that everybody can take pictures of mine whenever he wants, press record and send audio and video which he recorded directly via internet to other people.

You have a right to privacy in the privacy of your property and home. You control that right by who you allow onto your property. Technically when you are not on your property, you are in public or on someone elses property. Either way you have no right to privacy exept over your person and your belongings. THerefore when you are in public you can have your picture taken at any time. Now if someone barged into your home to take a picture of you with their camera phone they could be arrested and charged for trespassing. Beyond that you do not have a right to privacy.

Now if there was an internal movement in SA to depose their leadership and replace it with a more freedom loving one, I think we should covertly support it but to do anything overtly against one of the best footholds we have in the Arab muslim world is geopolitical suicide and would deeply wound American interests on a global scale.

Gotta keep up more with current events...

We've already lost the foothold...we withdrew our troops from SA. By the way, there WAS an internal movement to depose the Royals (by the Saudis themselves....) but it was thwarted by the US and the Royals!!! The reason? Because those who advocated deposing the royals were basically the militant Osama types (actually a minority among the Saudis). Us leaving SA had EVERYTHING with keeping the Royals in power to avert a bloody coup (and of course, keep his oil buddies happy, and on the dollar). Of course, like everything else in the espionage department, Shrub and cronies managed to screw that one too... Luckily, they waited till they had another secure foothold (Qatar) in the same region....to do it.

While I'm not happy about the way we withdrew (it should have been more gradual), it was inevitable we'd have to do so, to keep some influence there...otherwise Saudi would have turned into another pre-911 Afghanistan, and gas would be $4 US a gallon!....talk about economic downturn...

What those outside the US don't often realize, is that our states are the size of European NATIONS...and the cost of gas DIRECTLY affects the economy in a very real and immediate way...so the next time one gets all up in arms about oil...they should realize that it's more about the economy in general, than the specifics of just oil....

I was not refering to a military foothold but a political one. Our military presence in Saudi Arabia is of no consequence since we occupy Iraq and will undoubtedly have a base there for years to come. I was also aware of the rescent unrest in SA and am very glad that those whackos were put down.

There is an interesting milestone coming up in SA that could change the outlook on the country. Soon the amnesty period for terrorists will come to an end and I look for the Saudi PTB to come down in true Saudi fashion with beheadings, maimings and whippings upon the remaining terrorist cells and supporters in that country. Since a large portion of AQ's funding has traditionally come from Saudi sources this may help tip the scale in the battle against the terrorists. Personally I am taking a wait and see attitude with the Saudi crackdown but their rhetoric has been strong.

Originally posted by ashol
You have a right to privacy in the privacy of your property and home. You control that right by who you allow onto your property. Technically when you are not on your property, you are in public or on someone elses property. Either way you have no right to privacy exept over your person and your belongings. THerefore when you are in public you can have your picture taken at any time. Now if someone barged into your home to take a picture of you with their camera phone they could be arrested and charged for trespassing. Beyond that you do not have a right to privacy.

That's in the USA but don't dare to take a photo of mine with your cam phone, here in Germany, without my permission.