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Phil Zuckerman: Why Evangelicals Hate Jesus

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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Wow, you just never know what you will find on ATS...who would have thought that a thread like this would have a Christian not only acting like a Christian, but actually TEACHING, instead of just ranting "I DONT HATE JESUS THIS IS BULL#!".

Let me prefeace this by saying, I am not a Christian. I dont believe God send plagues of locusts unto people and whatnot.

However, I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, and wish more Christians would actually follow those teaching.

awake_and_aware, Im sorry, but as a (leaning towards former) atheist, you sound silly and do no justice for your cause. Im sure everyone has already read the webpage you referenced before, it certainly is cherry picking and misinterpreting, at least from what little knowledge i have of scriptures.

pay attention to IAMIAM he is giving you the keys to kingdom, literally. No, Im not saying go become a born again christian tomorrow (I certainly will not be), but just try to be loving and giving and patient and understanding. And if you live a good life, you will inspire others around you to live a good life, which will make your life even better in the process. If someone asks you for help, you ask him if he needs to borrow 10 bucks too, not find an excuse to weasel out of it because you dont feel like it....and in the future, it will pay rewards not only physically, but spiritually (as long as you arent doing it with the express intent of the reward!).

if IAMIAM is as patient in real life as he is here, he must be like Yoda, and I have to say he is probably one of the most truthful, genuine posters, and thats why he manages to make people look sort of silly without even "arguing" with them...its a sight to behold and contains lessons to be heeded.




posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Of course i would sound silly to you if you're a former Atheist. A little biased on your part.

My reasoning comes from agnosticism - Agnostic Atheism - It's the open-minded position that if evidence proves an omnipotent being, or even any of religion's claims then i will happily renounce my Atheism - and subscribe to the a specific religion if that can be proved true too.

I'm an agnostic because i have no evidence. And i assert that because man is currently agnostic, no man can claim such revealed knowledge that religion does. If he can, i want the evidence or it's just unfalsifiable conjuring.

Again, my position is open-minded. And is based on what man currently knows about reality or human existence.

All i will say that so far no mathematician, theologian, historian, archaeologist, nor any other academic has proved that/demonstrated that:-

a) a god exists

b) this hypothetical being in omnpotent

There's simply no empirical or logical evidence to suggest such a theory. And you call my position "silly" because i won't buy into an unfalsifiable theory? Ask yourself some questions before slandering my position ignorantly.

I won't even ask how you changed from Atheist position . Obviously you feel now that a God may exist, Obviously now your sure enough to form a belief.

I'll be honest and say i'm not sure whether a creator is requried for the universe, whether a creator exists, or whether reality is just an infinte meaningless force. That's why i don't pretend to have a reason to believe, and i won't assert a belief until i can be sure.

"Agnostic Atheism is bull" - IAMIAM

I loved that - no commetary as to why it's bull, no analysis of the reasoning. Just gold, ignorant gold. And you called "Atheism" silly?

I guess in way it is silly, i don't have a name for my lack of belief in fairies, or my lack of belief in Santa claus, why should i have a name for my lack of belief in God?

Still, with that in mind, my position is still Agnostic Atheism.
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



pay attention to IAMIAM he is giving you the keys to kingdom, literally


Oh please, spare me the metaphors - And don't tell me what to do.

I'm a kind, thoughful, empathetic person - I don't need IAMIAM's preaching to know how to treat my fellow comrades. Jesus doesn't have a monopoly over the golden rule, nor does he have a monopoly over being altruistic to eachother.
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Oh please, spare me the metaphors - And don't tell me what to do.

I'm a kind, thoughful, empathetic person - I don't need IAMIAM's preaching to know how to treat my fellow comrades. Jesus doesn't have a monopoly over the golden rule, nor does he have a monopoly over being altruistic to eachother.


The Golden Rule is a fine Maxim my friend.

"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you"

Do that, and you will have no worries in life.

Notice it is not worded such:

"Do unto others, only if they do unto you first"

"Do unto others, if you feel like it today"

"Do unto others, if they do the same for you"

It means show others how you want to be treated by treating them that way always.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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Evangelicals have always rubbed me the wrong way. Paul was an evangelist. Paul never burdened any one with his financial troubles.
1Th 2:9 For, brothers, you remember our labor and toil, night and day, working in order not to put a burden on any one of you, we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

2Th 3:8 nor did we eat bread from anyone as a gift, but by labor and toil, working night and day in order not to burden anyone of you.

Christ warned about the ones that do ask for money.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Most evangelicals teach a false prophecy called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, there's no scriptural basis for it any where in the Bible. You ever watch them begging for money on TV, they are ravening wolves. I prayed for years that their eyes would be opened, but to no avail.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



pay attention to IAMIAM he is giving you the keys to kingdom, literally


Oh please, spare me the metaphors - And don't tell me what to do.

I'm a kind, thoughful, empathetic person - I don't need IAMIAM's preaching to know how to treat my fellow comrades. Jesus doesn't have a monopoly over the golden rule, nor does he have a monopoly over being altruistic to eachother.


I don't know if "kind, thoughtful, empathetic" are words that describe how you are in real life, or how you perceive yourself to be, or how you act towards people you agree with, but your behaviour on ATS is quite contrary to any of those attributes.

The majority of people who have faith have it because it brings them something positive. Whether confidence, hope, comfort or joy, I have yet to meet a Christian who became dour by building a relationship with God. To that end, criticizing them, telling them that they are stupid or vacant or gullible, you are not being kind or empathetic, you are being cruel and callous. If you were a kind person, you would not be an evangelical atheist, trying to convince people that the faith which improves their lives is foolish.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Billmeister
 


Says people who do not understand Jesus' teachings.

I recall Jesus saying something about not coming to destroy the law, but uphold it . . .

Now look at the Torah, and see what it says about those items you list




But this crap is coming from the same type of people who say, if God is full of love and mercy, he would not send people to hell if there is one.

I am not an Evangelical. I am not even a Christian. This whole "research" is bunk. Epic fail.


I have the feeling you simply replied to the wrong poster, as I do not see any relation to what I posted and the reply you have given.

I totally agree that the article has no scientific basis whatsoever, however, the one point that is brought up which I do agree with is the one I pointed out.

Here it is again... true faith exists in actions, not words. People like labels such as Baptist, Methodist, Hindu, Conservative, Liberal, Atheist etc... it makes them feel comfortable, as a label can automatically make you part of a group.

I truly believe that Jesus did not and would not care what label you assign to yourself, He cares only in how you live your life. I'm convinced He prefers someone who assigns themselves the label Atheist who lives by the Golden Rule to hypocrites who assign themselves the label Evangelical Christian who do not.

If you disagree, and by all means you have the right, feel free to discuss away.

the Billmeister



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


It's a not a social gathering, it's a debate. How i am in real life is nothing of your concern, nor is it worth your judgement on a forum. I replied to a user who commanding me to adhere to preaching and like i've said before religion doesn't have a monopoly over "good".

Got a problem with my rapport or manners? Report me to a moderator. Derp.
edit on 14/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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a&a


Got a problem with my rapport or manners? Report me to a moderator. Derp.

Actually, you brought up the subject of your manners.


I'm a kind, thoughful, empathetic person


So, since you thought that to be on-topic, you should expect it to be discussed (which is, BTW, what this is, a discussion, not a debate, and, contrary to claim, it's exactly a social gathering).

Got a problem with being corrected on that? Call a mod. Can I have a Derp?



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
huh???
what kind of shabby research is this???

I am an evangelical Christian and I can
assure you I do NOT hate Jesus.

And I approve of gun ownership due to
self-defense. Where in the Bible does it
say we cannot defend ourselves???

And I approve of Capital Punishment
not because of the ideas presented
in this report but because the Bible
also states an eye for an eye.

This report is completely taken out of
context to attack Christians.


As you correctly state the bible does indeed mention the old ''eye for an eye'' solution. But ( correct me if I am wrong ) I think I am right in saying that this comes from the Old Testament writings. BUT, does this not go against everything that Jesus taught - you know - love thy neighbour, if you are struck on the right cheek offer the left etc. I'm not bashing you or any other persons religeous beliefs, but every time I read threads like this the people that follow the religeon being questioned by the OP whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc always play the ''out of context'' or ''mis-understanding/mis-interpreting'' card to defend themselves. Just read the report for what it is. It is a report stating with examples that the majority of people higher up the order in Evangelical churches throughout the U.S are NOT preaching or acting in a way that Jesus would accept or condone IMO.
I also understand that the problems highlighted in the report are NOT exclusive to Christianity. Peace.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


To be down right honest, many of the teachings of Jesus do not apply to "white evangelical Christians". Paul has the doctrine for the new testament Christians, while Jesus dealt mainly with Jewish material.

Most of what Christ taught was about the "Kingdom of Heaven" which has nothing to do with white evangelical Christians in this age. Later down the road the kingdom will matter greatly.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

I'm an agnostic because i have no evidence. And i assert that because man is currently agnostic, no man can claim such revealed knowledge that religion does. If he can, i want the evidence or it's just unfalsifiable conjuring.


Try looking into out of body experiences. the day i had one is the day i realized our soul lives on beyond this body. and while this does not prove a "god", it certainly doesnt hurt the case for it.

ETA: also, please do not distort my words to try and prove your point. I said

awake_and_aware, Im sorry, but as a (leaning towards former) atheist
,
not that i WAS a FORMER ATHEIST.
edit on 16-3-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



pay attention to IAMIAM he is giving you the keys to kingdom, literally


Oh please, spare me the metaphors - And don't tell me what to do.

I'm a kind, thoughful, empathetic person - I don't need IAMIAM's preaching to know how to treat my fellow comrades. Jesus doesn't have a monopoly over the golden rule, nor does he have a monopoly over being altruistic to eachother.
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


Yes, all of your posts on this thread truly sound compassionate, loving and understanding lol



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen
 


It's a not a social gathering, it's a debate. How i am in real life is nothing of your concern, nor is it worth your judgement on a forum.
]


Oh, I see, its OK for you to judge people of faith on their faith, but its not OK for people to "judge" you? You claim that "religion doesnt have a monopoly on good", so start acting like it. You are the one who seems to be doing the most damage to your theory.

Oh well, carry on.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 



Try looking into out of body experiences.


Nice, nice. More unreliable subjective "evidence" - That old chesnut.

I've read many O.B.E AND Abduction reports. Do i trust them as a reliable source? DERP.


Yes, all of your posts on this thread truly sound compassionate, loving and understanding lol


LOL - Maybe you want to join a forum that deals with sharing and discussing compassion, love and understanding. I'm here to debate theology, not make friends and please people's emotions.


Oh, I see, its OK for you to judge people of faith on their faith, but its not OK for people to "judge" you?


I can't judge indvidual characters, nor have i attempted to.

I can judge theocratic ideology or dogma. I can judge a small part of someone's character if they subscribe to pre-written beliefs that offer no evidence to verify the claims being made. I could assert that they are gullible, willing to believe before evidence, willing to trust other men's "theories"

I know what prejudice ancient dogma can cause, and based on what? "FAITH"

I don't consider faith a virtue.

Keep up the replies - Enjoying them.
edit on 16/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Of course. Since liberal think tanks inherently know and understand the writings of Jesus and have the correct interpretation, all evangelicals are wrong. Not surprisingly these moral geniuses teach that charity begins by stealing from the rich and giving to the 'poor', as they define poor.

It never actually occurred to them that it might be a better show of their Jesus spirit if they actually contributed from their own coffers to the disadvantaged rather than stealing from others. Did it occur to them that the social issues of immorality which is a primary cause of poverty (aka single mothers), ought to be addressed?

When these folks read Jesus they only see the forgiveness, mercy and charity side and fail to see the judgment and holiness part of the christian walk.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by adjensen
 


Of course. Since liberal think tanks inherently know and understand the writings of Jesus and have the correct interpretation, all evangelicals are wrong. Not surprisingly these moral geniuses teach that charity begins by stealing from the rich and giving to the 'poor', as they define poor.

It never actually occurred to them that it might be a better show of their Jesus spirit if they actually contributed from their own coffers to the disadvantaged rather than stealing from others. Did it occur to them that the social issues of immorality which is a primary cause of poverty (aka single mothers), ought to be addressed?

When these folks read Jesus they only see the forgiveness, mercy and charity side and fail to see the judgment and holiness part of the christian walk.


Who is Holy enough to judge my friend?

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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It is true the second of the two commands are often forgotten...

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." 1 John 3:23

...which is evidence that such a person does not know the Spirit...

"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." 1 John 3:24
edit on 16/3/11 by troubleshooter because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by troubleshooter
It is true the second of the two commands are often forgotten...

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." 1 John 3:23


Of course, this was never a commandment issued by Christ, this was an interpretation after the fact of his statement to the disciples, "anything you ask in my name, I will do." This wasn't a commandment to keep his name sacred, as that is idolatry. It was an example that they should have followed. Anything anyone asks another, they should do. That was Christ's way.

The above scripture was penned after some of the followers split from those who continued in the book of John. The author is saying how one group can tell themselves from the "phony" group.

See how quickly the teachings of Christ broke down among his followers. Shortly after his death, they split up and divided over how to understand his teachings. Everything after Christ's death on the Cross and subsequent resurrection is a sad tale of Christ's followers going astray.

But that is just my opinion. Christ is within, for the spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God and the spirit that moves me, are one. No name is needed, you know it when you feel it.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 

You look like that Raelian guy...are you that Raelian guy?




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