It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Phil Zuckerman: Why Evangelicals Hate Jesus

page: 2
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 07:00 AM
link   
reply to post by Billmeister
 


From what I have seen, I fully agree!
Vicky




posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 07:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




That's not hard. The Pharisees only had SELF-righteousness. They had zero of Christ's imputed righteousness because they rejected Him as the Messiah and only begotten Son of God.


And I'm pretty sure that is the exact attribute the article is attributing to Evangelicals.


I don't really see it that way, because it's not about righteousness. An evangelical is a Protestant, so they believe that they are saved by their faith, and faith alone. As I said, it's not a sin to own a gun, anyway, so a person's salvation wouldn't hinge on whether they owned a gun or not.

The point is that some of these beliefs being counter to Christ's fundamental teaching result in people promoting or supporting candidates and platforms because they believe that they are Christian candidates or platforms when they are not.

In reality, they are liberal or conservative voters voting for liberal or conservative candidates, and then rationalizing their positions to be Christian, even in the contradiction.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 12:50 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 



An evangelical is a Protestant, so they believe that they are saved by their faith, and faith alone


Isn't that what every faith-head thinks?

"Jesus saved me"

"The way of zen Bhuddism enlightened me"

"Scientology paved the way for me"

Evangelicals are just radicals in regards to their religion. They use the most reprehensible verses to back up their extreme preaching. They love that Old Testament too


Those who are not Evangelicals are just people with vague faith, they really don't believe ALL the BS in the bible, making them less consistent than Evangelicals, making them less gullible. For example, they don't preach homophobia.

People who like to pick and choose their own God have often made reformations of their religion, effectively an amended edition. Reformation is common within Christianity, especially in the West:-

en.wikipedia.org...

www.bbc.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.newadvent.org...

www.lepg.org...



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 12:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Isn't that what every faith-head thinks?


Be your own faith head my friend.

All You need is Love!

Christ is the Messiah

A re-formation for a new age.



With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 01:00 PM
link   
Evangelical Mortal Kombat:-



I fear for these people, these Pastors are quite aggressive

edit on 12/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 01:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen
 



An evangelical is a Protestant, so they believe that they are saved by their faith, and faith alone


Isn't that what every faith-head thinks?


No, not really.


Evangelicals are just radicals in regards to their religion.


No, not really. Technically, I am an Evangelical (as a Methodist,) but am not a conservative, nor am I a radical. You're making a common mistake, which is the point of the article -- confusing political beliefs with religious ones.


People who like to pick and choose their own God have often made reformations of their religion, effectively an amended edition.


Actually reformation is usually an attempt to tone back the influences of people and politics in an arena that they shouldn't be making policies. It's a bit Neanderthal of you to argue that institutions that see the negative influence of external systems shouldn't try and reform themselves.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:18 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


I've told you before IAMIAM,

I can borrow SOME of Jesus philosophies, but many of which i will disregard as i believe it to be unethical and morally reprehensible.

Martin Luther King borrowed from scripture to support his campaign. notice he didn't reference the genocide or the genital mutilation, or the stoning of gay men.

It's because parts of the scripture ARE obviously evil. GOD, the protagonist or antagonist (not sure which one) is the all powerful, totalitarian dictator, ethical and moral teaching consists of bowing down to the master, which i don't consider a virtue. Serfdom is not a virtuous act.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I've told you before IAMIAM,

I can borrow SOME of Jesus philosophies, but many of which i will disregard as i believe it to be unethical and morally reprehensible.


You have not provided any examples of such. Each time you do, I show that you are quoting out of context and distorting what is said. You are judging Christ's doctrine by the bias you hold against those who have likewise distorted his teachings. You do that which you claim to despise others for doing.


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Martin Luther King borrowed from scripture to support his campaign. notice he didn't reference the genocide or the genital mutilation, or the stoning of gay men.


Because this isn't part of Christ's doctrine.


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
It's because parts of the scripture ARE obviously evil. GOD, the protagonist or antagonist (not sure which one) is the all powerful, totalitarian dictator, ethical and moral teaching consists of bowing down to the master, which i don't consider a virtue. Serfdom is not a virtuous act.


You are trapped in the viscious cycle of Judging. You are no more righteous than those you stand against so long as you continue to do that which they do.

You are better than this my friend. If you believe Christ taught something that was unethical, provide the example IN CONTEXT, and then we will have something to discuss.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Matthew 11:20



Jesus, whose clothes are dipped in blood, has a sharp sword sticking out of his mouth. Thus attired, he treads the winepress of the wrath of God. (The winepress is the actual press that humans shall be put into so that we may be ground up.) Revelations 19:13-15



The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest of us the unchosen will be killed with the sword of Jesus. “An all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” Revelations 19:20-21



Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, “lest . . . they . . . should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Matthew 13:10-15



Jesus explains why he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12



Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7



Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he’ll give your a big reward. Jesus asks that his followers abandon their children to follow him. To leave your child is abuse, it’s called neglect, pure and simple. Matthew 19:29



Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark 7:9



Jesus says that those who have been less fortunate in this life will have it even worse in the life to come. Mark 4:25



Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Clearly Jesus could have simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. This is called animal abuse. Mark 5:12-13


This last comes from insane ancient belief systems; people honestly believe that transferring the people's "sins" onto animals and letting the animal die will rid them of their sins or responsibility. This "scapegoating" is immoral preaching. Similarly is Vicarious Redemption, Jesus absolving us of our sins via human sacrifice.

IAMIAM, before you claim mistranslation or attempt pass preaching off as metaphor; i assume that you've read the original scriptures and the many translations? And you've understood it's message.

Or are you going to take the very vague stance that everyone get's different meaning from scripture?

Looking forward to your reply, in which you are sure to defend Christ, your "saviour"
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:23 AM
link   
reply to post by Billmeister
 


Says people who do not understand Jesus' teachings.

I recall Jesus saying something about not coming to destroy the law, but uphold it . . .

Now look at the Torah, and see what it says about those items you list




But this crap is coming from the same type of people who say, if God is full of love and mercy, he would not send people to hell if there is one.

I am not an Evangelical. I am not even a Christian. This whole "research" is bunk. Epic fail.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:24 AM
link   
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Cherry picking without any sort of context or understanding.

Keep making yourself look the fool.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


The bible's blind, the torah's deaf, the Qu'Ran is mute
if you burned them all together you'd be close to the truth.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:29 AM
link   
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


To each there own.

But to cherry pick and not understand context, and presenting as fact to bash something is disingenuous.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


What did i cherry pick?

Can i ask you a question; do you believe homosexuality is an abomination, should bring back corporal punishment for those who commit this "abomination"?
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
read the original scriptures and the many translations? And you've understood it's message.

Or are you going to take the very vague stance that everyone get's different meaning from scripture?

Looking forward to your reply, in which you are sure to defend Christ, your "saviour"


Again my friend, you take things out of context and do not even provide the scripture you are not understanding.

I will make it simple for you and tell you what Christ taught. I will not provide scripture as you wouldn't understand it any way. You are blinded by bias. I am sure you have your reasons, but you need to do the work to get over them.

We are all Children of God, therefore it is not our place to judge one another. All we are supposed to do is love one another and help each other to thrive on this planet, leaving each to enjoy it as the Heaven it is.

That is it in a nut shell.


Now this is the truth you can bank on. Mankind WILL come to accept this truth. Mankind will love one another. Mankind will stop trying to rule one another. Mankind WILL take responsibility for the evils it has done to one another.

Your place is not to judge.

Watch.

The longer it takes, the more the world breaks!

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Now this is the truth you can bank on. Mankind WILL come to accept this truth. Mankind will love one another. Mankind will stop trying to rule one another. Mankind WILL take responsibility for the evils it has done to one another.

Your place is not to judge.


I'll judge if i see it fit for something to be judged. Priests preaching condoms are worse than aids - I will judge the Priests. Teaching "heaven" and "hell" to children as absolute - I will judge whoever carries out these wicked deeds.

Well so far with religious dogma and exclusivity, we've rained nothing but violence in the name of GOd and Jesus Christ. May it's time we drop the religious nonsense and just be kind to one another without passing off the unprovable as truth? Maybe we search for truth together instead of claiming one specific "religion" has absolute truth.

The only route i can see to soldarity is if we stop teaching nonsense to children and all unite in one goal; to stop discrimination and suffering of fellow humans.
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:17 PM
link   
Reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


What is the first commandment in the Torah?

Did Jesus not say that if you love Him, you would keep the commandments?

And of those who do not keep the commandments, punishment is death.

Jesus' blood provides grace against the death penalty for sins against God.

Sin against mankind is to be dealt with by mankind, as sin against God was dealt with by God (Jesus)





 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


What about forgiveness?

Am i to believe that your God would punish me in hellfire (FOR ETERNITY) because i can't see any evidence to believe? I'd happily change my mind given the evidence, but if the evidence points towards the man's description of God, i would still resent that God, he's evil and tyrranous. He doesn't have a right to own me.

When my judgement day comes, do i get a lawyer? Do i get a chance to make my case?

This is exactly the type of fear mongering i talk about.

And you still havn't answered my question, i guess something about that question braught out the inner-cowardice in you.


Jesus' blood provides grace against the death penalty for sins against God.


Vicarious redemption is immoral preaching, it's the scapegoating of responsibility. Many ancient tribes used to burden a goat with their "sins" and send it to die in the wild. This is immoral preaching. Spread this wickedness if you will. Besides, you have to first accept Christianity as truth before you believe in "sins"

I'm not bound by human sacrifice that took place years ago. If i was alive i would try to prevent it.
edit on 13/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:26 PM
link   
You will never accomplish this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
to stop discrimination and suffering of fellow humans.


when YOU continue to do this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
I'll judge if i see it fit for something to be judged.


You are not doing this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
it's time we drop the religious nonsense and just be kind to one another without passing off the unprovable as truth?


while you continue to do this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Priests preaching condoms are worse than aids - I will judge the Priests. Teaching "heaven" and "hell" to children as absolute - I will judge whoever carries out these wicked deeds.



You are not trying to do this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Maybe we search for truth together instead of claiming one specific "religion" has absolute truth.


While you continue to do this...


Originally posted by awake_and_aware
Well so far with religious dogma and exclusivity, we've rained nothing but violence in the name of GOd and Jesus Christ.


You are filled with as much hate and hypocrisy as those you condemn. Your own words condemn you. If you want to see a better world, be better!

Otherwise, you are no different than those you have deluded yourself into believing you are better than. Your self-righteousness is obvious to all but yourself. Doctor, Heal thyself!

Do you read what you say?

With Love,

Your Brother



edit on 13-3-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:29 PM
link   
Reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Wrong. Finish the verse.

Judge, lest not ye be judged. For the manner in which ye judge, so shall ye be judged. and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye.

He is saying to not to he a hypocrite. If you are a thief, you have no right to judge another as a thief, and if you do, you will get the same judgement you have handed out.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




top topics



 
9
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join