Originally posted by The Axeman
OK I see your point, but I mean, really... do you actually think this man is in control? I highly doubt it. He is a figurehead, and if necessary a scapegoat as well. Just my opinion.

Figurehead or not, he is in the most powerful position in the world, he is in control if he wants to be.

Some would argue that he is where he is today because the really powerful people wanted him there and put him there.

Thats how it works for the rest also. There hasn't been a president, and never will be one, that the really powerful people haven't wanted.

Originally posted by Darktalon

Originally posted by The Axeman
OK I see your point, but I mean, really... do you actually think this man is in control? I highly doubt it. He is a figurehead, and if necessary a scapegoat as well. Just my opinion.

Figurehead or not, he is in the most powerful position in the world, he is in control if he wants to be.

Some would argue that he is where he is today because the really powerful people wanted him there and put him there.

Thats how it works for the rest also. There hasn't been a president, and never will be one, that the really powerful people haven't wanted.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. In the current state of affairs all he has to do is say "go" and it's all his show. But don't you think that even if he did that, there wouldn't be people right behind him pushing him to do what they wanted him to? There is no question that he has the potential to sieze the power, but the people pulling his strings would definitely have something to say about it.

[edit on 7/21/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman

Personally I think we should have more than two people to choose from, but I don't make the rules, and even if there were more than two, it could still be fixed. The people really have no say if you get technical. It's the electoral college that really makes the decision.

You do have more than two people to choose from, in fact you can write down whoever you darn well please on the ballot. While I think that the electoral college should be done away with, the people still make the decision. If a majority votes for Kerry, that states electoral votes go to Kerry, and same with Bush. It still is possible for the majority of people to vote for one candidate and have the other candidate win, which is why I believe the electoral college should be done away with.
Anyways, back to the first subject- While I don't claim to be an expert on fraternities, aren't they all kind of secret? Why are people more suspect of Skull and Bones than of others? My answer to the original question is that I think it is a coincidence that members of the same fraternity are running.

From theE45kid
While I don't claim to be an expert on fraternities, aren't they all kind of secret? Why are people more suspect of Skull and Bones than of others? My answer to the original question is that I think it is a coincidence that members of the same fraternity are running.

1. Yes fraternities try to keep their rituals and "secrets", just that, secret.

2. Why S&B? Simple, because no member of S&B has every devulged the frats secrets.

3. Coincidence? Yes and No. I think yes, because they just happen to be two guys that share a school, and frat, I don't think the powers that are behind S&B made this happen. Then No, not a coincidence, if you pick the top 15 seniors at one of the top schools in the world each year, something like this is bound to happen.

Originally posted by theE46kid

Originally posted by The Axeman

Personally I think we should have more than two people to choose from, but I don't make the rules, and even if there were more than two, it could still be fixed. The people really have no say if you get technical. It's the electoral college that really makes the decision.

You do have more than two people to choose from, in fact you can write down whoever you darn well please on the ballot. While I think that the electoral college should be done away with, the people still make the decision. If a majority votes for Kerry, that states electoral votes go to Kerry, and same with Bush. It still is possible for the majority of people to vote for one candidate and have the other candidate win, which is why I believe the electoral college should be done away with.
Anyways, back to the first subject- While I don't claim to be an expert on fraternities, aren't they all kind of secret? Why are people more suspect of Skull and Bones than of others? My answer to the original question is that I think it is a coincidence that members of the same fraternity are running.

Sure, you can write whoever you want but you and I both know that one or the other of the nominated candidates WILL be president no matter how many people check Ralph Nader's name or whoever it might be. No matter what it comes down to two people. I understand how voting works. The point I was trying to make is that the final decision rests in the hands of the electoral college. As long as it is possible for the majority of the people to vote for one candidate and have the other one win, they ultimately have the final say.

I agree with Darktalon, I think that the reason people look to S&B to be the bad guys is that they DO NOT TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES! Anytime you have secrecy (not to mention the caliber of people selected) you are going to have speculations about evil intentions. I'm not defending anyone, I am just putting out what seems obvious to me. Take it how you will.

Why is that most people don't know the history of the George BuSh family? Why doesn't the news air BuSh's dirty stained dress secrets, night after night? If this information does not seem believable to you, please research it and provide proof of inaccuracies. Otherwise, help forward the information to stop the wall of secrecy.



1. Prescott Bush: President Bush's grandfather was a director of a bank seized by the federal government because of its ties to a German industrialist who helped bankroll Adolf Hitler's rise to power. Bush was cited for TRADING WITH THE ENEMY and providing gas, military equipment and WMD to Hitler to assist Hitler in murdering millions of Hebrew people. This is how the BuSh family derived their wealth! While American soldiers were fighting the Nazis in WWII, a few of the companies Precott managed were seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act because they were selling fuel to, and laundering money for, the Nazis.



2. President George HW BuSh: Reportedly, HW skipped school and requirements to become the youngest WWII Navy pilot, and then bailed out of a plane - killing his alive crewmates with the one parachute. Reportedly, George HW was addicted to Halcion and was the reason he vomited on the Prime Minister of Japan in 1992. Reportedly, George HW had a LONG xtra-marital affair with his mistress, Jennifer Fitzgerald. Reportedly, George HW has had business dealings with the bin Laden's for a LONG time and was eating lunch with Osama's brother on September 11, 2001 (CARLYLE GROUP). Jan 1, 2002: Zalamy Khalilzad is appointed by Bush as special envoy to Afghanistan. [BBC, 1/1/02] Khalilzad once lobbied for the Taliban and worked for an American oil company that sought concessions for pipelines in Afghanistan. it goes on and on...



3. George W BuSh had a criminal history prior to taking the White House presidency. How could a man with an arrest record become president?

Arrest Record, Crimes & Misdemeanors:



o Two negligent collisions, July & Aug 1962 at Houston TX. Fined.

o Two speeding tickets, July & Aug 1964 at Houston TX. Fined.

o Arrested for Disorderly Conduct, December 1966 at New Haven CT. Charges were dropped.

o Arrested for Disorderly Conduct in New Jersey, in 1967.

o At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine when 30 years old; pled guilty, was fined and suspended from driving.



On May 27, 1968, George Bush Jr. was 12 days away from losing his student draft deferment, at a time when 350 Americans a week were dying in combat in Vietnam. The National Guard, seen by many as the most respectable way to avoid Vietnam, had a huge waiting list -- a year and a half in Texas, over 100,000 men nationwide. Yet Bush and his family friends pulled strings, and the young man was admitted the same day he applied, regardless of any waiting list.

+ Took a 2 month vacation in Florida after 8 weeks in the Guard.

+ Skipped Officer Candidate School and got a special commission as 2nd Lt.

+ Skipped all his medical exams after they started drug tests. 1972, Bush Sr. arranged for his son to do community service at an inner city Houston charity allegedly for cocaine arrest while in the National Guard.

??? HOW DOES A MAN gain entrance to the National Guard with an arrest history and driving citations? Was George W in Community Service when he was AWOL for one year in the Guard???



4. Laura BuSh in 1963: A Chevrolet driven by Mrs. Bush - then Laura Welch, a high school senior - ran a stop sign and struck a Chevrolet Corvair driven by Michael Douglas - a boyfriend who had ended their relationship. It was a clear night, just after 8 PM (still daylight). Laura, with a girlfriend in the passenger seat, is driving just outside of Midland, near the local Lover's Lane. Laura runs a STOP sign and drives into the intersection of State Highway 349 and Farm Road 868. Her car slams into a southbound Corvair, driven by her "close friend", 17-year-old Michael Douglas. The impact is fatal. He was killed "almost" instantly of a broken neck. NO INVESTIGATION OF MANSLAUGHTER? NO DUI TEST?



5. Neil Mallon Bush is the third son of George and Barbara Bush and the younger brother of president George W. Bush. Neil Bush is best known for his business failures -- particularly the collapse of Colorado's Silverado Savings and Loan, of which he was a director. In 1990, Bush paid a $50,000 fine and was banned from banking activities for his role in taking down Silverado, which actually cost taxpayers $1.3 billion. A Resolution Trust Corporation Suit against Bush and other officers of Silverado was settled in 1991 for $26.5 million. And the fine wasn't exactly paid by Neil Bush. A Republican fundraiser set up a fund to help defer costs Neil incurred in his S&L dealings.



6. George Bush's other brother, Jonathan J., the only principal in the New York firm of J. Bush & Co., was barred from trading with the general public for one year for violating Massachusetts registration laws, fined $30,000 and ordered to buy back stocks sold to clients during the preceding 43 months. A "dismayed" regulator told a reporter that "anyone who has been notified that he is violating state law and continues to do so certainly exemplifies a cavalier attitude."