Debit cards: $50 spending limit coming?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

What I find hysterical is all these transactions are more or less handled by automated computers and the banks are whining that the cost of processing them won't be worth their time.

Actually the transaction bank to bank (transfer payments) are paid for by the AMERICAN TAXPAYER!

PRESIDENT'S PRIVATE SECTOR SURVEY ON COST CONTROL

[The first twelve, m/l, pages]

A REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT

VOLUME I...

With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.... www.uhuh.com...

well here in Finland it goes something like this ,

transactions over 50 can be made if you have a means of ID

(national ID card , drivers licence , pass port , but in technical terms only a national ID card is valid since passports are ment for boarder control and Drivers licences only for driving but its become customary for establishments to accept the other forms of ID as long as they are governmentaly approved)

as a hint i can say with confidence that most forms of debit/credit cards as we know em will be completely gone in a couple of years due to the fact that they are easily clonable,

I have not worked my way through passed page three yet.

SHAME ON YOU Proto! You did not see the TRAP!!!

OK folks lets get back to the basics and look at the LAWS just passed.

ModernAcademia caught the first clue: All Credit Card Transactions To Be Reported to IRS

Credit Card Payments to be Reported to the IRS Beginning 2011

Banks and other payment settlement services will need to report gross annual receipts for each merchant. The income reporting will apply to "any transaction in which a payment card is accepted as payment" (new Internal Revenue Code section 6050W(c)(2)).

Then we have a second law: A few sentences in Obamacare changed the tax code and now businesses are required to file 1099's for every vendor when they spend $600 or more in a tax year. Ugly Side Effect of Healthcare Bill's 1099 Law...

HOWEVER if a business uses a CREDIT CARD they do not have to fill out the 1099's. WORSE

...Olson says there is cause for concern about identity theft with the new 1099s, given the fact tens of millions of taxpayers will need to give out personal Social Security numbers or taxpayer identification numbers [TINs] to complete 1099 forms. “There could be identity theft concerns, especially if TINs essentially become public through routine printing on receipts,” TAO Olson says. slumz.boxden.com...

The USA has 19,523,741 "nonemployee" aka family businesses and a total of close to 6 million small busineses with employees. There are only 17,000 large corporations. 50% of America is employed by small firms and about 1/3 or less are employed by the large Corporations.

Now all those businesses, mainly small businesses have an avalanche of paperwork hanging over their heads with an out - CREDIT OR DEBIT cards.

The bankers just slammed the door on the DEBIT card options!

As I just said The bankers just slammed the door on the DEBIT card options!

Now what do you think Sam's Club, Walmart, Office Max, Home Depot, Lowe's Home Improvement, gas stations, restaurants, motels/hotels are going to do when asked for their tax ID because a small business person wants to pay them in CASH!

Do you think they are going to want to:
1. Subject their TIN to possible Identity Theft???

2. Deal with an avalanche of 1099's ???

3. Deal with WITHHOLDING 28% of the purchase price in 2013 because somebody screwed up a TIN and now the IRS requires withholding on ALL 1099's for that business??? (Been there done that have the IRS letter to prove it )

WHY do banks want Credit cards not Debit cards?

The answer is simple Debit cards represent REAL WEALTH, that is the labor or goods you sold for "cash" and the "cash" you then loaded onto your debit card.

CREDIT CARDS are fraudulent fairy dust created on the spot. A friend proved this in a court of law in New York and won against Bank America.

Don't believe banks create the money they lend? Neither did the jury in a landmark Minnesota case, until they heard the evidence. First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969)... Daly, an attorney representing himself, argued that the bank had put up no real money for his loan...Drexler hadn't given much credence to the theory of the defense, until Mr. Morgan, the bank's president, took the stand. To everyone's surprise, Morgan admitted that the bank routinely created money "out of thin air" for its loans, and that this was standard banking practice. "It sounds like fraud to me," intoned Presiding Justice Martin Mahoney amid nods from the jurors. In his court memorandum, Justice Mahoney stated... www.webofdebt.com...

Inflation of the money supply through the use of fairy dust loans is a method of stealing from the poor and middle class. You inflate the money supply causing prices to increase quickly but wagers to increase slowly. Wages never catch up with the price increase. But the increase in the wage puts you in another "Tax bracket"

In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelines.ws...

.... New money does not appear magically in equal percentages in all people's bank accounts or under their mattresses. Money spreads unevenly, and this process has varying effects on individuals, depending on whether they receive early or late access to the new money

It is these losses of the groups that are the last to be reached [the labor class] by the variation in the value of money which ultimately constitute the source of the profits made by the mine owners [or bankers issuing fiat credit] and the groups most closely connected with them.

This indicates a fundamental aspect of Mises's monetary theory that is rarely mentioned: the expansion or contraction of money is a zero-sum game.... changes in the money supply inescapably have the characteristic features of a zero-sum game. Some individuals are made better off by an increase in the money supply; others are made worse off. The existing money is an example of a "fixed pie of social value." Adding to the money supply does not add to its value.
Mises on Money: www.lewrockwell.com...

The ultimate goal is "death of money" or at least cash.

The concept of "death of money" refers to a fundamental change in the nature of business transactions based on a complex, electronically managed system of valuations used for stocks, bonds, insurance policies, and other financial contracts that go beyond the simple, historic notion of money representing physical gold reserves. The Death of Money is a book (1994) where Joel Kurtzman reported that the digitization, or virtualization, of capital was causing a disconnect from reality that threatened financial anarchy.

Interview with Kurtzman: epolicy.blogspot.com...

If this happens I'll just move to cash. That way the bank would make 0 money and I can spend $51 with no problem. Seems absolutely ridiculous and the first bank to apply this would instantly lose 100% of their members.

As far as the whole futuristic NWO chip implant thing goes, once the first person to get robbed loses their hand instead of their wallet, that'll be squashed as well.

Originally posted by thegoods724
I dont see why they would decline purchases over 50 dollars, just use a credit card and get rewards points. The only people it will effect are the businesses you buy things from who could get away with it costing the business less to use debit. No one should be using debit theres no point, unless you do so to not make the banks richer.

There are many reasons why I choose to use my debit card instead of credit.

For starters, I don't even own a single credit card. (Except for my bank card, which can be run as credit.) Why would I need to? Either I have the money to make a certain purchase or I do not.

Also, debit transactions hit my account immediately, whereas charging credit from my bank card takes a day or more to fully process and clear.

Run your life on cash, not credit.

A debit card allows me to do this without having to carry hundreds of dollars in bills on me at all times. Sure, someone can steal my debit card. However, assuming that they didn't kill me after taking it, I can just call my local bank and cancel it immediately. There is very little chance of ever getting back the bills that a criminal steals from you.

Cheers,
Cody

It's time to get rid of your debit card.

The banks just view you as a source of income.

If you choose to pay bank fees on debit cards.... Your an idiot!

Find another way to do business.

already occurs when I go to certain fuel chains.

Debt card fill up attempts stop at 50.00. Be that way for about a year or so-where I reside.

SUCKS-especially with the Fuel cost so high.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The awakened among us already knew that the banks and wealthy elites of this world "own" us and are the true power in the world. Now, apparently, they have become so openly brazen, corrupted by their insatiable greed that they no longer even pretend or erect a false facade of regard for the average person, --of any nation.

America has slowly turned into an aristocracy, ---the extremely well-off and the soon to be impoverished. Their arrogance is easily explained by the fact that all (not some, but ALL) politicians need enormous amounts of money to win their campaigns. Even after being elected, politicians are at the beck and call of those who contribute enormous amounts of cash to campaign chests. What does this mean? It means banks can do pretty much anything they want to do.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Ok, so assuming that the Fed's were informed....(which I'm not really convinced of....a Crown Victoria? That seems like a horrible place to scope someone out from......Anyone can see into the car, and a couple of guys with binoculars or listening equipment would be pretty darn noticeable to all the neighbors....especially if they were sitting there that long)....but none the less...assuming you are right, and this was the Feds, or even just the local police spying on you....Why do you think you were tipped off from your card?!?! Didn't it cross your mind that if you go to a gun store and buy all the necessary equipment for a shooting spree INCLUDING a tactical vest, all in one visit, that the guy behind the counter might tip off the police??? He may even be REQUIRED too! I mean wouldn't you?!?! If a guy came in and bought an unusual amount of ammo and a tactical vest all at the same time...isn't it at least PLAUSIBLE that the guy is planning something not too good? I'd not feel right if I didn't report something like that myself!

reply to post by garbageface

If this happens I'll just move to cash....

TPTB/Banksters have that one covered too.

....Innocent owners who are never charged with a crime still must prove their innocence in complex proceedings, where many cases are lost before even coming to trial. Most forfeiture cases are never contested, in part because contesting the proceedings can cost more than the value of what's been confiscated. "The average vehicle siezed is worth about $4,000," states FEAR president Brenda Grantland, Esq. "To defend a case, especially when you're out of state, they've pretty much made it cost prohibitive."

Under civil asset forfeiture laws, the simple possession of cash, with no drugs or other contraband, can be considered evidence of criminal activity.

www.fear.org...

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Now I dont have documented proof for you fellow readers, but I do have a summarized story that occurred to me.

Summarized version:

* Went to gun store in Nv.
* Bought 2k rounds of 7.63x 39 for my AK-47
* bought 2k rounds for my 9mm
* bought a 75 rd drum for the AK
* Tactical Vest was purchased as well
* along with extra high capacity mags

I don't believe that you did that, or that you were watched. If you make enough money to go and blow 2 to 3k on gun ammo and accessories and use your debit card to do so, they're probably going to think you're a rich idiot and invite to come back next weekend, not call the police on you. If you make that kind of money, you're obviously not going to be living in a bad neighborhood. No spooks after you.. Yet.

Originally posted by thegoods724
No one should be using debit theres no point, unless you do so to not make the banks richer.

What's wrong with debit cards? I use one from my credit union checking account. I happen to like to pay with money I HAVE vs. money I don't have. It's using the checking account without the checks basically. On top of that, I can control how much is in there in case there is fraud (happened once for 200.00, and they fixed it the next day).
And, no fees at all. Gotta get out of this 'living on credit' mentality.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


Have they ever not? They keep the printing press running like a car warming up in the winter. LOL

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Damn, if this happens people will actually start carrying cash again.

Lets hope the fed has enough new bills printed and ready.

Check-book. Crisis solved.

I wonder if this is tied to the recent push for people to run their debit card as a credit card. There has to be a money motive behind it. I know it costs merchants more when a card is run as a CC rather than a debit card, but the banks are pushing people to "not enter their PIN", which means, run it as a credit card.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The article might be better titled “The Empire Strikes Back” as your not so local and not so friendly neighborhood bankers decide to start getting ‘even’ for all the fees that they once charged being eliminated or reduced by the government.

It used to be that Banks could hardly cross state lines, let alone the Mississippi, and they pretty much had to make their money through being fortunate enough to wisely invest their depositor’s money and realizing a profit on that.

However since deregulation began back in the 80’s they went on a fee binge that netted them billions of dollars a year in profits for basically doing nothing at all except the services that they once provided when there was true competition in the industry to lure customers and depositors.

Now with just a few Mega Banks dominating the U.S. landscape they have become as predatory and dictatorial as any other Monopoly and it looks like they are going to flex their collective muscles over reductions in the bank interchange fees collected from merchants on debit card transactions.

It appears they are banking (no pun intended) on the threat of capping Debit Card Transaction Limits to frighten lawmakers into repealing some of the new laws, or customers into accepting new fees for using Debit Cards.

The only things more broken and dysfunctional than the American Government are the big corporations.

Where and when and how do we ever get sanity and control of our lives back?

Bluff or promise?

money.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Maybe that would be good. Make people slow down spending. Writing checks in the checkout line again will REALLY slow things down! I better order more checks...

Originally posted by snowspirit
people.


Up here, withdrawal from a ATM is $1000 per day, depending on the bank, and purchase with a debit card is unlimited because as long as the funds are in the bank, the card will go through.

In my experience, $2000 is the purchase limit with a debit card in a 24 hour period no matter how much you have.
I topped out one day and had my card denied, called the bank (RBC) and was told it was fraud prevention policy.

Some of us are stuck with the banks, especially if you own a business.

Worse, some of us are stuck with having to take many online (like PayPal) payments (eBay sellers, and others).

It's just reality, we're stuck paying huge fees no matter what, because the idiotic consumer does exactly as told, and uses whatever means of payment is most convenient (that is, the one most expensive for all businesses, except banks).

And if you don't accept that payment method, the next seller will, and you lose sales.

As a small business owner, we get spanked with the double-whammy. Customers use credit cards or other online payment methods, costing us major fees, and much of the funds then go into accounts, often at a delayed rate. Currently, those accounts are most easily accessible via DEBIT cards.

If debit card transactions were effectively eliminated, then banks would hold on to our funds for days, slowing down commerce considerably. Already, we must resort to ridiculous means to keep cash flow going, multiple cards, multiple accounts, transferring money around, just so the account associated with the cards, which have a tiny $3K/day limit on each, etc., can be of some use. It's friggin' absolutely stupid to burden business with such foolishness.

Imagine having $10K, or $50K, or $100K each day entering accounts that wouldn't amount to availability for several days or more (international really sucks). And yet, you need to keep paying for the product (before the price exceeds what you sold it for!). Yes, some highly competitive business models rely on a fairly thin margin, making money on volume (which isn't always easy with massive corporate competition). It's actually very good for the consumer to have business offer products competitively. But this may not last.

And even if you had deep pockets, and could finance the damn banks, letting them hold hundreds of thousands of your funds, what happens if you get a big spike in orders? That can get challenging!

I can tell you that some businesses could go under, especially if what they sold experienced major daily price volatility.

Here's another thing: This will REALLY screw everyone when the US Dollar begins to devalue so fast that we can sell something for $10 one day, but by the time we finally get our money out of the friggin' bank, our purchasing power is far less. The end of business.

Could this be part of that set-up? To leave us all so vulnerable, to have the banks holding everything, to leave us in the lurch big time with whatever crap they're planning?

Well, their motto is order out of chaos, so hang on to your seats.

JR