Originally posted by Realtruth
All this bickering is pointless, in regards to the Wisconsin collective bargaining.
Do teachers in the USA actually understand what went on, or is going on in the USA currently?
We are broke. Have No Money. In Debt. People are making this a Union thing, and/ or a party issue, it is neither.
In The Real World.
And in the real world, we understand that collective bargaining costs nothing. it is a group of people agreeing among themselves what they would like,
and then bringing it to a negotiating table. It's protected under our first amendment rights to both freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom
We aren't broke, nor are we in debt. We have lots of wealth. The trouble is, that wealth is being funneled - hemorrhaged, really - out of the middle
class and into the pockets of the wealthy. That is the people generating the wealth are having it stolen and handed to people who simply collect
might have trouble scraping up change for a cup of coffee, but that's not because our economy has tanked, it's not because we're
out of resources, it's simply because the wealth redistribution scheme is nearing its zenith; at which point you're going to be the modern equivalent
of a sharecropper or serf, eternally in debt to the oligarch ticks who you're now standing in defense of.
And I hate to tell you but yes, this IS a party issue. The Republicans - and you need to get it through your head that yes, it is the Republicans, and
exclusively the republicans, who are attacking the poor and the middle class, stealing
money from them to give to the Republican's rich donors,
and then using that as an excuse to strip fundamental rights
from the working class. Rights that, oddly enough, protect those workers from the
same people the Republicans are handing all the working class' money to. I understand just fine that neither party is perfect, but you need to
understand that they are
different. Pretending that it doesn't make a difference is, in point of fact, ignorant. The Republicans are the only
party that does this.
Most of us living in the real world have a different perspective, when things get financially stressed and people make less or have no incomes,
sacrifices have to be made. People tighten their belts, go without health-care, extra luxuries, sometimes even food. Tax bases have been cut in half,
in most of the USA or more.
Most of us living in the real world understand that the problem could easily be solved by ending the free money tax break giveaways given to the
ultra-wealthy in this country, with a modest tax increase for about two fiscal years, combined with a federal work program to repair our crumbling
infrastructure and get enough teachers so we don't have 60 kids in one class.
You are, in effect, demanding that the already poor tighten their belts so that the ultra-wealthy can maintain their profit margins
that's the important thing here. Only one segment of the US population is being affected here, the working class - that is, the poor and middle
classes - while thewealthier segments are just fine
. We're supposed to tighten our belts, give up our rights, give up our investments, so that
they can expand
The pay that teachers, and many government workers received preciously were based on a thriving economy, people being able to pay their taxes
and making good wages, that is how the government runs, on TAX MONEY.
Do these teachers actually understand that 35+ million US citizens are on food stamps currently and rising?
Do you understand that those people are on food stamps primarily because of the systemic attacks on the working class by the wealthy and their crony
party? Do you understand that food stamps - along with WIC, housing, and so many other federal and state projects to assist the needful - are on the
chopping block, while the military-industrial complex, the massive Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, and our annual tribute to Tel Aviv of three billion
are all completely untouchable?
Do you understand that without this systemic attack - screw it, let's call it what it is, class warfare - people would
be making good, livable
You can't honestly tell me that you think $40,000 a year is excellent pay for a job like teaching high school. As a former high schooler, I can tell
you there is no way
I would accept wages like that to work in that place. And now, those wages are "needing" to be cut, and classes "need" to
be expanded, meaning htat teachers need to accept LESS pay for MORE work, in what is already a backbreaking and high-stress job. And if the students
fail to completely ace the bubble tests that funnel federal money into the pockets of school administrators, the teacher faces getting fired.
Yeah, those whiny scumbags!
Let me explain basic economics 101, which many people don't get in public schools or even take in college.
Money comes from somewhere, when salaries and budgets are based on a certain amount of money, then a certain amount of wages can be paid. Now, if
that certain amount is cut in half, then the amount of the salaries and budgets have to be cut in half. Simple math folks.
And when the situation has been intentionally engineered to get this result, by a pack of people who are actively trying to undercut the working
class, for their own enrichment?
The Union Card.
Union's were formed to protect, not the middle class, but people from working in terrible unsafe conditions. I know this because I have worked
worldwide, in the industrial world, and have seen what many people have not. Unions are not a bad thing and are necessary, however they have taken
advantage of their power, and now they are paying the price for that.
I'm sorry, but that's completely full of it. First off, unions are integral to the formation and preservation of the middle class. There wasn't
a middle class prior to the labor movement. Unions formed, and the Middle Class took shape afterwards, as a direct result of workers being able to
band together for their own self-interest. And now that unions are getting busted, the middle class is shrinking
. It's a direct correlation, a
simple cause-and-effect situation.
Second, they have "taken advantage" of nothing. Look around the nation. Hell, just in Wisconsin, the Unions agreed to bend over and kiss their own
asses for the governor. They agreed to wage cuts and freezes, they agreed to pay a higher percentage of health coverage, and all sorts of other cuts
to benefits. It's the Governor who is taking advantage of the unions by demanding - basically - that they not be unions anymore; a union without
collective bargaining is not a union, and can do NOTHING for its members.
Unions - that is, WORKERS
, America's wealth-generators, the poor and middle classes - are paying the price for the greed of the oligarchs,
supported by the ruling party, which is making bald and dangerous moves to strip wealth from the many to give to the few, in addition to the
bare-assed power grabs in places like Florida and Michigan.
Yes our middle-class is dwindling, but the average teacher makes 40 - 50k a year, works 185 days a year, full benefits, pension, safe work
conditions, and 4 months off a year. I would wager teachers are not going to get much sympathy, in a depression.
First off, 40k a year is
middle class. And it's under attack just like the rest of the middle class. So your argument is a demand for
middle-class autocannibalism. With the end result of an even SMALLER middle class as there end up being fewer teachers to provide an education that is
the backbone of the middle class. Just who's payroll are you on?
Actually, teachers work in the classroom for 185 days a year. For the remaining 180 days, they need to take unpaid training and workshops, often while
trying to balance a second job. Portraying it, as you do, as some variant of a paid vacation is absolutely ludicrous. Benefits can't buy groceries
(and there's actually a copay that seems to get a little bigger every year). Pensions are not an "in addition" - they are actually part of the
teacher's 40k pay. You see, the pension is a trust, the money is removed from the teachers' paycheck and put towards the pension. Of course they have
to spend 30+ years in the same school district, and must retire to get that money back as their pension; a feat which is increasingly uncommon, thanks
to the constant attacks on teachers and schools in this country from both
You're being lied to, and you're being lied to hard
to get you to support these attacks on teachers and education in our country. The reason is
simple; poorly-educated people tend to not know their own worth, and make excellent serf labor. Why do you think it was illegal to teach slaves how to
read back in the day? it wasn't petty spite.
Instead of people fighting amongst each other they should question the governments budgets and how to re-allocate some of its spending.
I guess they still teach that money grows on trees, in the US public school systems.
edit on 10-3-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)
Removed the image for space.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You just spent this entire post demanding that the working class eviscerate itself for the benefit of the
oligarchs, vehemently defended the absurd generosity given to the military and attendant departments, and offered no question of removing tax cuts.
And you say "instead of people fighting each other..." followed by another attack on teachers?
edit on 11/3/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)