US forces "mistakenly" kill Afghan president's cousin

Originally posted by Fitch303
Wow some of you are acting the the U.S. just sent in the SS to rape and kill all living things. Name 1 war where civilian casualties did not take place......................you can't. Personally I'd rather 100 afghans die than 1 U.S. soldier, it's not like anybody from that country has EVER contributed anything to mankind. This was a message to the Afghan president to play ball or meet the same fate.

hah aren't you a terrible person. we have already slaughtered thousands of iraqi's and afgahni's yet you believe its ok? youre right, there is always casualties in war (though i am quite certain you are wrong about every war having civilian casualties) and you can't even say the people of that country haven't contributed anything to mankind.

also, american soldiers # stinks like everyone else...don't act like they are perfect.


i am curious to if obama is waking up to the problems, or if he wasn't even part of it to begin with...i some times feel like he fell into the situation that he is in now and never intended on being a puppet but had no choice because he had a family. idk. i am probably wrong on that

Originally posted by Fitch303
Wow some of you are acting the the U.S. just sent in the SS to rape and kill all living things. Name 1 war where civilian casualties did not take place......................you can't. Personally I'd rather 100 afghans die than 1 U.S. soldier, it's not like anybody from that country has EVER contributed anything to mankind. This was a message to the Afghan president to play ball or meet the same fate.

It's people like you that keep the HATE growing...
Sad sad sad..

Originally posted by Fitch303
Wow some of you are acting the the U.S. just sent in the SS to rape and kill all living things. Name 1 war where civilian casualties did not take place......................you can't. Personally I'd rather 100 afghans die than 1 U.S. soldier, it's not like anybody from that country has EVER contributed anything to mankind. This was a message to the Afghan president to play ball or meet the same fate.

That's neat and all, but this isn't a "war".

War, as princeton.edu says, is "a legal state created by a declaration of war and ended by official declaration during which the international rules of war apply;..".. the US .gov tacitly admits it's not a "war" by treating POWs as "enemy combatants".. not soldiers.

Afghanistan is an "occupation" defined: princeton.edu as "the control of a country by military forces of a foreign power "

Spare me the Rambo flashback.. "tell me it's not a war when the bullets are flying..it's war man!!".. I get.. on the battlefield it's "war".. okie-dokie, but on the political field it's kinda not.

I don't know about you America bashers, but I feel so much safer now, and I'm sure soccer moms across America can breathe a sigh of relief... those wood collecting children and this dangerous dude have finally been taken out!!.. a blow to al-queada for sure!!

Better to take them out over there before they're collecting your firewood over here.

As you might expect, there is a lot more to this than has been released. At the moment, it looks like they got done over by an informant. The inquiries will be very interesting.

deleted by me: piping off at the mouth.

Originally posted by XelNaga

Originally posted by Fitch303
Wow some of you are acting the the U.S. just sent in the SS to rape and kill all living things. Name 1 war where civilian casualties did not take place......................you can't. Personally I'd rather 100 afghans die than 1 U.S. soldier, it's not like anybody from that country has EVER contributed anything to mankind. This was a message to the Afghan president to play ball or meet the same fate.

hah aren't you a terrible person. we have already slaughtered thousands of iraqi's and afgahni's yet you believe its ok? youre right, there is always casualties in war (though i am quite certain you are wrong about every war having civilian casualties) and you can't even say the people of that country haven't contributed anything to mankind.

also, american soldiers # stinks like everyone else...don't act like they are perfect.

i am curious to if obama is waking up to the problems, or if he wasn't even part of it to begin with...i some times feel like he fell into the situation that he is in now and never intended on being a puppet but had no choice because he had a family. idk. i am probably wrong on that

Slaughtering is an intentional act done with prejudice. When you have a group of people firing at US soldiers from a position which is bombed by the air force and 30 feet away in another mud hut a family is killed due to the pressure waive or secondary explosions that is not "slaughter". The US army does not slaughter people, sure you have on occasion a handful of soldiers who go crazy and kill a family which is regrettable but not the same thing.

Originally posted by Fitch303
Wow some of you are acting the the U.S. just sent in the SS to rape and kill all living things. Name 1 war where civilian casualties did not take place......................you can't. Personally I'd rather 100 afghans die than 1 U.S. soldier, it's not like anybody from that country has EVER contributed anything to mankind. This was a message to the Afghan president to play ball or meet the same fate.

Sir, I have nothing but contempt for your views. There's nothing more I need say, it would be a waste of time to point out to you that afghanis (not afghans, afghans are biscuits, or as you'd say 'cookies) have a right to live because they do, not because of anything you're willing to see as a contribution.
Aside from the space programme, what has the USA ever contributed to 'mankind'?
V.

reply to post by Fitch303

When you have a group of people firing at US soldiers from a position which is bombed by the air force and 30 feet away in another mud hut a family is killed due to the pressure waive or secondary explosions that is not "slaughter".

I think genocide is a more appropriate term. What you you do if some other nation puts its guns into your business? The afghanis have a lot of respect in my book as one of the worlds poorest nations holding its ground against invasion from one of the richest nations .

US forces "mistakenly" kill Afghan president's cousin

how do you mistakenly kill somebody? they obviously meant to kill them unless their finger slipped, or do they mean they killed them but then realised after the fact that is was the afghan presidents cousin, whoops?

if it were not the afghans president cousin does that mean it would not of be a mistake? even if it were an innocent afghan but who was a nobody?

woops now thats a bit of a "mistake"...there is no damn way they didn't know he was in there...

reply to post by Steve8511


lol..yes this culd be the making of a real good conspiracy story...Karzai gets a bit cocky....then one of his rellies gets killed?

Do you think he got the message??!

There is no mistake in anything. Everyone should realize it by now already that this is all played out. U.S are in their countries to piss everyone off. Period. The TPTB want the SHTF sooner.

Of course they went to kill him. A point needed to be made and now I think that point will get across. If not, someone else will be made. Im glad some of you know the Recons capabilities and expectations. Must be easy analyzing behind a computer.

2nd recon bn

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Originally posted by Reaper2137
You have a life time to pick apart what that team did.

Sure I do, but the problem at hand, is that the victims do not have that luxury, because thier bullet drilled corpses cannot point accusing fingers of their own accord.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here the guy they killed was a douch that the country hated more than the u.s altho their president who is also a puppet is also hated the only reason this is news is because real victims that did nothing wrong were shot lol..

Any one in the military knows that. That team did what it thought was right,

The problem with that is, that they thought horrificaly wrong, because they didnt do enough work to ensure thier assumptions were correct.

I bed to differ on this point as well, Your loping ever death on the hands on this one team. This guy their talking about in the article is once again a douch and drug runner.. I.E no one really cares that he is gone.
Will we find out what happened? Sure

We will only find out ANYTHING about this incident, after it has been scoured of any evidence of wrong doing, and evidenciary markers put in place (falsified i.e.) that suggest reasonable grounds for this otherwise inexcusable incident.

I don't know if they will do things differently than I did when I was an M.P but weather the Army was in the wrong or not it went down and was sent up. just because the Army is doing the investigation doesn't mean that it won't show bad light on the Army either way we should get a pretty good picture.
will the military be justified? who knows! you act like doing a raid takes hours instead of seconds.

I am under no false impressions about the amount of time these things take to happen. It takes mere seconds to go off half cocked, like a bunch of gung ho idiots, without doing the barest minimum of actual recon. That in of its self IS the problem. "Special forces" are supposed to be better than that, we all know this. If it were any other way, they would merely be called "forces". These folks are supposed to be nigh on unkillable, and capable of inhuman speed of reaction, accuracy , and intelligence under fire. In short, this incident, and the others I have mentioned, which involved special forces personel should NEVER have gone down the way they did.

I see no problem with what they did or their intel if I had to guess what they did they got tired of protecting the poppy field's and popped the leader.

Most of the tech you speak of is still new and still being learned by soldiers. Even when we master it there will still be F.N.G's to teach mistakes will always happen and collateral damage will always be a part of war in some small way to varying degrees.

I have to disagree here. Night vision is in current terms, a true old timer. Its been around for about two decades now at least. Thermal assisted vision is pretty much the same basic trick as night vision, requiring no intense training to master. This argument is empty of all value. You would literaly have to be a drooling moron not to understand the functions of the military thermal and night vision equipment available today.
And regards F.N.G. 's there is no escape from the truth here. If the US government cannot train its troops to use all the equipment they will come into contact with, BEFORE they leave the US, then they have no business feilding a damned army in the first place. There is not the space in the world for a bunch of undertrained boys , charging around with extremely powerful military hardware.
The key thing here is that the US government has a responsibility to train its soldiers effectively so that they are not only a competent and dangerous force of men, but so that they do not pose a threat to thier allies and to innocent people. Calling deaths caused by mistaken discharge of a weapon, or mistakes in targeting ,collateral damage, is just a pretty way of saying " Sorry, we are a group of people who do not care enough about innocent non combatant targets to bother thinking before shooting. We care about our lives, more than yours, and we dont care what you think about that." which makes the US military great targets.
Keeping collateral damage down to one life a year might give your idiots , Im sorry, special forces, a little more credibility.

while night vision is old hat its newer iterations are not there are over 10-15 different generations being used by the armed forces at any one time. and Thermal sight is even more useless when used as any thing other than observation talking about ground thermal not air. when used as sight its just horrible.

It's what the soldiers and their commanders learn from these Trails that we will come out a stronger more capable battle force.

This planet, is not a training ground, its people are not obstructions on a mock battlefeild, nor paper targets on a firing range. To give a god damn what benifits the commanders and the men get from such a "learning expirience" shows exactly how arrogant the attitude of US citizens toward the mistakes of thier military is. The US military must learn that this planet is not its backyard, is not its territory, and further, that if there is learning to do , it should be done at home in the safe confines of thier own nation, where the only people they can hurt actualy have RIGHTS according to US law. Maybe then they will learn when to shoot and when not to, and how to shoot STRAIGHT!

lol.. like the u.s is the only one guilty of that I can think of the last 200 years running of British war crimes and crimes agaisn't human kind. and No they do not have right according to u.s law they can try and make a complaint to the U.N or N.A.T.O but I don't think they care to much beyond ouch that sucks..
Now on to what I think!

Who the hell cares about that Crooks cousin got nailed, the whole government is corrupt if the military didn't have its hands tide behind its back baby sitting poppy fields and protecting opium routes which is the main income for that country.

First things first, this scentence is lacking an end, a punchline, a meaning. It doesnt MATTER how much of the GDP of a nation is based on poppy farming. What matters is what the majority of PEOPLE in the region do for work, and I can assure you that many more people are being payed pennies a day to make rugs, to sell matches, to farm FOOD and look after animals, than are actualy employed in poppy growth or harvest. Sure, the harvests may bring in more money than all the regular peoples employment pooled together, but that doesnt mean that everyone in the government is corrupt. Its not as if the Afghan government sponsor poppy growth. Thats the job of the CIA. Not giving a crap that special forces are incapable of limiting the outworking of thier homicidal tendancies to the terrorists they are supposed to be killing, cannot be excused by what the GDP figures of the nation they are operating in happen to be.

gan? no I don't think so so yeah a lot of them work in the poppy fields since its its country biggest export . once again you distract from the U.S special forces only taking out one drug runner that happened to be the presidents cousin and equate it to them killing every one lol..

In 2007, Corporal Donald Payne was the first person to be convicted of war crimes under the International Criminal Court Act 2001 when he pled guilty to inhumane treatment of prisoners in Basra in 2003 following the invasion of Iraq.[10]
yeah like no one has ever done in thing bad in any other country ever lol..
Well have you been to Af
not to mention the main income for the C.I.A than we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. We do need out of that country Hopefully it is the tipping point. When we pull out I hope the military burns every Opium farmer their crops and all storing areas on their way out.

-As Above
-So Below

Reaper

On that last point at least, we can agree.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Steve8511

 

lol..yes this culd be the making of a real good conspiracy story...Karzai gets a bit cocky....then one of his rellies gets killed?

Do you think he got the message??!

I am feeling like "you" are right! Good perspective...star for you.

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by Fitch303

Aside from the space programme, what has the USA ever contributed to 'mankind'?
V.

A Lot. War breeds and is the mother of technology. I can go on and on and on...

Reference 1

Reference 2

This war on "terror" is ending up like an episode of the Simpson's.
DUH.

Im glad my relatives dont liive over there in Afghanistan.
How inoccent and dead would they be

End operations in Afghanistan, Karzai tells NATO

ASADABAD, Afghanistan (AFP) – An emotional Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday told international troops to "stop their operations in our land", his strongest remarks yet over mistaken killings of civilians.

Karzai's comments came after a week in which a relative of his was killed in a raid by foreign forces and he rejected an apology by the US commander of troops General David Petraeus for the deaths of nine children in a NATO strike.

"I would like to ask NATO and the US with honour and humbleness and not with arrogance to stop their operations in our land," Karzai said in Pashto as he visited the dead children's relatives in Kunar province, eastern Afghanistan. "We are very tolerant people but now our tolerance has run out."

That's pretty unambiguous.

Sad things happen in war. We are only human after all. If we could make precise and perfect decisions on who, what, where and how to make attacks, then this war would have been done a long time ago.

People don't seem to realize that it's no cake walk being at war. It's not like the heads just decide they'll attack random coordinates. Most of the time Col. Snugglenuts has to make a decision of action or no action. This decision usually will cost lives either way. Take action and you stand the chance of possibly killing innocent civilians or other persons, and a chance of service members dying as with any combat situation. But say that this point of attack or no attack could be a strategic point for the Afghan forces, then that could mean the death of more service members down the road.

People try to make it seem like the forces are running around attacking here, blowing this up, bombing that for no good reason. Or just because we want to. Hey, look! Children and innocent civilians! Let's kill 'em! No! That doesn't happen. Usually. I can't say never, because there are truly sick individuals in this world. Mistakes happen, and right now it looks like the ISAF are making a lot of them. I think the fighting situation needs a huge re-evaluation. There is definitely some tweaking that needs done. Here is to hoping the mistakes drop in number. Steep and fast. We can't handle much more, Afghanistan is almost a lost cause.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by Fitch303

Aside from the space programme, what has the USA ever contributed to 'mankind'?
V.

A Lot. War breeds and is the mother of technology. I can go on and on and on...

Reference 1

Reference 2

edit on 11-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-3-2011 by hp1229 because: edit content

I don't think it's worth it! What you're saying is that the USA's 'thing' is war, and that war has accidental technological benefits! Don't you get how crazy that is?
V.