Wis. GOP bypasses Dems, cuts collective bargaining

reply to post by dolphinfan


What dream world are you living in? You sure haven't lived in the US I'm familiar with, and I've lived in a lot of it.

This how privatization has gone every time and everywhere I've seen it done.

Sure they will consolidate and hire fewer and less competent people.

Will that improve service? NO. Will it increase profit margins? Hell, yes! The ONLY incentive private companies have in this case is to increase profit, since they have a guaranteed monopolistic profit for x years.

They couldn't possibly care less at that point about efficiency or citizen satisfaction...because, you see, the citizens aren't their clients, the politicians are. So instead of focussing on on efficiency and citizen satisfaction, they focus on cultivating efficient political relationships (that would be bribes to the rest of us).

And in the name of profit efficiency, they will find ways to mine and sell the data unethically. I would say illegally, but they usually bribe the local government to pass an regulation "forcing" them to sell the information at a high profit.

Privatization is a one-way street to fraud, corruption, inefficiency, and declining standards: it is a government-sponsored monopoly, and monopolies are never efficient. It is basically a license to steal public funds and property.

The private sector is committed to one thing and one thing only: personal profit for owners. The only efficiency they care about is that with which they seperate money from wherever they can get it. They will pay substandard wages and then those workers will have to apply for support, placing furtherr drain on the taxpayer with the difference going into their pockets.

If you really want better government stop electing businessmen who hate government and try electing a few folks who understand its true purpose and how it is supposed to work.

Try to remember that not every efficiency is measured in direct dollars today: what looks inefficient to an accountant for this quarter may well be wisdom ten years on.

Public service is "service". It is meant to be selfless service. If you want a job that pays great and has great benefits the government should not be your employer.

Government employee pay should be directly related to tax collections and fluctuate with the economy. Instead government employee pay only goes up and benefits only go up regardless of tax collections and rarely is anyone every let go. This is not how economics are supposed to work.

Also posters here keep comparing public unions to private unions and confusing the issue that this is private union busting. It is not. Private unions are just as powerful today as they were yesterday and I don't see any chance of them losing any power in this deal.

reply to post by apacheman

Data collection and collation pertaining to the citizenry for the purposes of determining public policy should be strictly in the hands of government. Under absolutely no circumstances should such information be privatized, since about two hours after it is it will be abused, sold and compromised. I trust private business to handle the data the same way they always do: they will share it with their subsidiaries and business partners,

I just love how Statists approve of centralization of resources, in this particular instance data mining, while disapproving of private means of data collection. We were given a glimpse of the Big Bro aspect of data mining when the network admin inadvertently put that waiver on the cash for clunkers program declaring Big Bro owns your data if you go to their website. While I'm thinking about this, part of the Stimulus package was to upgrade health care data infrastructure. Interestingly, auditors are going to be given a piece of the pie when they catch companies who deliberately or inadvertendtly allow a breach of healthcare information on patients. The Stimulus package stipulates that every breach of records can result in a financial penalty. Penalties can be up to 1,000,000 $$ depending on how big a breach it is. The CEO, CFO, network admins, all are held accountable. I heard one network admin suggest that they may be a bit nervous designing a network for health care companies. Just food for thought.

reply to post by Gooey6


I call you out as a fraud by your post count and rhetoric, it sounds too pro-Koch agenda, a plant to push anti-unionism.

Where do you work exactly? What union are you in? what unions are in place there?

Sound to me it's your own work ethic that is lacking. Personally, I've never needed to be supervised to work hard, efficiently and fast. Most people do the job the are paid to do and take pride in their work, even when underpaid, whether union or not.

Your statements are most likely propagandistic bs with no basis in reality.

Oh the hypocrisy, the REEAL reason the unioistas are up in arms is that the proposed changes in the law will require them to pay TAXES that everyone else does. So much for the tax lovers bemoaning their personal loophole loss!

To those who say that by taking away the right to a "closed shop" union this will deminish education, I say BUNK!

Take a look at the educational level slide over the past 50 years. Education has deminished in relation to the increase in wages. The way these "professionals" left the state house trashed for several weeks did not win many supporters.

These teachers get an average wage of $49,000 per year with 15 weeks of vacation and unheard of benefits! Where else can you come out of college and do as well? Cry me a river. The best thing that the state could do would be to fire them all, IMO.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Welcome to ATS Mr. Beck. You bring your chalkboard?

Yes...everything is because of Obama...egypt being fed up with a dictator is just obama causing trouble to spread socialism, Wisconson breaking unions out of political desire is Obama causing trouble..its raining today...I imagine that is from obama causing doom clouds and keeping me indoors

-shakes fist at obama-

Of course not everything. Yes Beck was and is right! I have posted the smoking gun of European Socialist involvement in all these protests, and FYI before Beck did his shows I found an obscure article about the trade unions in Tunisia re the protests. I knew already the Socialists were part of this.
Interesting thing, all this overthrowing of dictators in Islamic countries did not happen while Bush was in office, but while a pro Uniion guy is in office. How can it be construed to be anything else? A simple study of the NWO shows that nothing of this maginitude is everyspontaneous. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the corruption of autocratic leaders is being exposed, particularly when the US is giving taxpayer monies to support them. However, there is something vastly more totalitarian going on behind the scenes, which is yet to unfold.

reply to post by romanmel

These teachers get an average wage of $49,000 per year with 15 weeks of vacation and unheard of benefits!

You should see what the governor gets. Better yet, you should see what banking CEO's get...or better yet...you should see the benefits CEO's of any major company get.

It's spectacular...and all payed on by the dime of the American worker.

How is that?

They reap all the benefits by taking more from us....paying as little as they can with as little benefits.

Think in reverse my friend.

Instead of attacking those similar to you with better benefits...why don't you go after those who are keeping you from getting the same?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Yah I was just replying to the guy whining about billionaires. It's always ok when one side is billionaire but never the other side.

The union thugs in Wisconsin are currently acting like anti-government extremists and Janet Napolitano should be all over them with just as much if not more fervor than going after any TEA party members.

I suppose looking at this as a Native American, this is a good thing, as it hastens the dissolution and fall of the US, and thus moves the Nations closer to freedom.

But looking at this as someone who swore an oath to protect the Constitution, someone who fought for, suffered for it, endured hardships for it, it pisses me off.

From where I sit, Republicans are guilty of treason: their agendas over the past few decades have worked to strengthen America's enemies and competitors to the detriment of the citizenry and nation.

Their arrogant contempt for everyone besides themselves is obvious and repugnant.

You call yourself a Republican?

I call you traitor.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I have to arguably disagree with you, that the air controller strike, during the Reagan years, was about baggage handlers getting pay raises. I believe, it was about, the air traffic controllers were striking, because they did not have the proper instruments to safely perform their job.

After the striker's were fired by--- Blood On His Hands Ronald Reagan, the newly hired, inexperienced air traffic controller's did indeed, recieve the instruments that the formally fired striker's called for.

It was all about, "union busting."

reply to post by The Sword


It is not a companies obligation to create jobs. It is a companies job to deliver share holder value. Ideally they have enough confidence in the future prospects of the economy to hire people as they pursue a growth strategy, but they are not obligated to do so.

Let me get a chalk board and draw it out for you. Revenue/profits does not equal jobs. It may, but it may not. A clear economic policy and some competence in the governance of international affairs creates economic stability which encourages firms to embark on growth strategies. We have an absence of both at the moment. In light of that the right corporate strategy is to hunker down and ride out the uncertainty. If a company has x people and is generating a healthy profit and sees organic growth which they deem sufficient, should they hire? Of course not.

Profits are up because inventories are low and firms have cut waste and streamlined operations to maintain profit margins (the same thing government should be doing).

reply to post by David9176


Surely there is not a single corporate made product in your house right?

Taxes are passed on to the consumer in every business model, not just corporations.

WOW what great day in Wisconsin...Proud of my Senator Van Wanggaard for the guts to stand up to the unions. For Gov Walker for digging us out of years of union oppression.

WISCONSIN IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

reply to post by dolphinfan


Then why should tax money support or bail out private companies on the grounds of creating jobs?

Obviously that is a false concept as you state, they aren't in the business of creating jobs, just shareholder profit.

Businessmen have no business in government. They are far too selfish and self-centered to comprehend what the point of the exercise is, they always think it's about them, and them alone. Wrong mindset.

I live in Wisconsin and will do anything i can to help Scott stay in office. He is doing a great job defending freedom!!! Read this artical it makes really good points. [link removed]

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne

Surely there is not a single corporate made product in your house right?

Oh yes...house is full of corporate products...all proudly made by American...oops...I mean Chinese workers who work for next to nothing. That's how we need to get jobs back here in the good ol' US of A.

Just except slave labor wages...let's put our kids to work. Let's get things rolling.

Originally posted by apacheman
I suppose looking at this as a Native American, this is a good thing, as it hastens the dissolution and fall of the US, and thus moves the Nations closer to freedom.

But looking at this as someone who swore an oath to protect the Constitution, someone who fought for, suffered for it, endured hardships for it, it pisses me off.

From where I sit, Republicans are guilty of treason: their agendas over the past few decades have worked to strengthen America's enemies and competitors to the detriment of the citizenry and nation.

Their arrogant contempt for everyone besides themselves is obvious and repugnant.

You call yourself a Republican?

I call you traitor.

edit on 10-3-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)

Wow, that's a pretty far-reaching statement, especially when considering that lands in the US have been steadily turned over to the UN as World Heritage sites not to be touched by human hands. I hope you are now ready to fight the UN World govt for use of lands. Or did the Nations make a deal with the UN?

reply to post by David9176


You are free to start your own business and pay your employees a "non slave labor wage".

Why havent you done that yet? Lack of ideas? No business sense? No motivation?

I guess it's just easier to sit around and cry about it right?