Wis. GOP bypasses Dems, cuts collective bargaining

reply to post by ChocoTaco369

Probably because "billionaires on Wall Street" actually contribute to society and pay billions into the tax system.

They do whatever they can not to pay into the tax system. Didn't you see them threaten to shut down the government to get their tax cuts extended? Amazingly not long after the Supreme court decision giving corporation unbelievable power to lobby our politicians....power that was already immense since corporations have personhood?

Public sector unions, on the other hand, are some of the largest leeches on society

Teachers, firefighters, police are all leeches on society? What are you exactly? What do you see yourself as? A wonderful contributing member to society?

You'll be hard-pressed to find a billionaire on Wall Street that didn't break their back to get to their position. Many come from very humble beginnings.

And did it in the most disgusting ways possible...or simply had it handed to them at birth.

I argue that the average public sector union worker is greedier than the average Wall Street billionaire. At least the billionaires earn their money and contribute to the tax base.

Right, they teach our kids, protect us from crime and put out our fires. Wall Street does much more for us.

You'll also be hard-pressed to find someone in a public sector union that didn't take the job to collect a pension, have every conceivable holiday off and accumulate 4 weeks paid vacation a year.

Right...and why would anyone not want that? I get 2 weeks a year...and had 1 week per year for 3 years....this after losing my job to Mexico (Not a union) because they could pay them next to nothing....even though our company was still profitable. I had 3 weeks vacation a year after 5 years at that job. Good insurance, dental, eyecare.....but now it's gone.

AS IT IS FOR MANY AMERICANS....and it had absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS. It had to do with shareholders seeing a possible boost to stock prices if the company was "more" profitable. That's it. They didn't care about their employees. WE DIDNT DEMAND MORE PAY OR BENEFITS. I watched as my plant manager, who also loss his job, cried as he told all 400 workers in our plant that they were closing their doors. He didn't want this to happen...he actually fought for us...but he was forced to do it.

Damnit...They actually brought Mexicans in who didn't speak English for me to TRAIN....THEY WERE TAKING MY JOB!!!!! And it's not Mexicans fault...it's the greedy ass CEO and it's shareholders who were responsible.

Originally posted by EssenceOfSilence
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

If these steps don't work and you want to go back to the way it was, vote them out in 2012/14 and elect some folks that will reinstate it.

Bush was voted in twice, remember?

I shouldn't be laughing at this really, but then again its the only thing I can do, laugh at how easily fooled we are. And no I am not so much concerned at the fact these people were voted in for their policies as I am at the ignorance regarding the result of these policies. If you voted for Scott Walker and others, ok, you feel he is the right guy for the job, but if he implements a policy that does more harm to this economy and working folks and you ignore this, that is when I have issue.

If you don't like the process you will need to move to a socialist nation,

If you going to throw around the socialist tag, I suggest you throw it back to Walker since our taxes pay for his healthcare, and the fact more than 40 million elderly americans take our taxes for healthcare as well.

...and by the way, socialist countries are surviving much better than we are.

Originally posted by MMPI2
I say to this: GOOD! Kudos for the bravery of the wisconsin voter for finally reigning in the corruption rampant in the union ranks.

what needs to happen next is subpoenas, indictments, arraignments, grand juries, and convictions.

anybody within the unions' leaderships needs to be investigated and convicted for racketeering.

This was not put to public vote. This was all political party state government vote.
Why would the people want to go back to colonial days? Really?
The funniest thing happened that caused unions and it was the lies of the government.
The Bonus Army
Little known American History Trivia:
What President ordered Veterans to be Removed from DC by Force because they asked for their Bonuses?
Your government is setting you up for the biggest fall of your lives and you are willing to pay for it until the dollar collapses. Then what will you use to pay for it? The rich don't contribute to this country, they take away from it. They will always consider their bottom line before your health, work conditions and very life.
This is where we were: Shirtwaist Factory Murders
This is obviously what people like you want us to go back to. We won't.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by David9176

 

I wonder what will happen when Wisconsin and other states continue to suffer budgetary issues following these cuts to the middleclass? Whats next? We going to remove minimum wage outright? How about giving employers every right to fire somebody when they want for whatever reason? Yep, I can see the future, and it's just more cuts to the middle class.

The consequences will come out soon.

edit on 10-3-2011 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)

I don't know what planet your from but in Michigan employers can fire you for anything they want just short of color of skin.

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne

Yet election after election, the American sheep keep voting corrupt politicians in. Who is truly at fault? The American people are, and I will rejoice when they finally begin to suffer the consequences of electing criminals.

And we agree here!!!

We are absolutely at fault....but if the only information you receive in news outlets are from corporations...it's quite easy for people to be manipulated correct?

I read a joke on the MSN forum.

A CEO, a tea party member and a union employee are sitting in front of a plate of 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 cookies, then turns to the tea party guy and says, "Be careful. That union guy is going to try to take part of your cookie."

We are all being played against each other by the people who own our government.


Our Senate just past a law limiting the teacher's union's collective bargaining power and limiting tenure.

www.wkrn.com...

The only issue I have with this as a future teacher is that the bill was rushed through without figuring out exactly how the changes would be implemented. I really don't agree with tenure as it is now because there's no accountability after a public school teacher receives it. In a university environment, tenured professors have to produce measurable results and even publish every couple of years to keep it.

I believe my job security should be based on my performance, just like everyone else. I am in favor of renewable contracts. But we do need bargaining power, not for ourselves necessarily, but for the students welfare. The first thing they cut is education without thinking of the consequences. That's how collective bargaining should be used. Fight for the people who are most vulnerable. (I realize I am somewhat naive, but I have decided to give up reality for Lent.)

I found it interesting that Wisconsin's governor is cutting education by a large amount, but not cutting prisons. That's typically Republican behavior in my area. I have this to say, if our politicians on both sides of the aisle think education is expensive, they need to consider the alternative. America is messed up priority wise.

Lot's of new or relatively new ATS members supporting Fuhrer Walker and union busting. Makes you wonder could this be Koch whore money posting? If not, it is sad to think they would do it for free.

reply to post by Ihsahn

Without the unions there won't be as many construction workers and such,

BS! There are plenty of construction jobs within the private sector. Unions need not be present for employment. By removing the unions, it allows for all people to get a job, and have equal pay. Where as now, you have the whiners that are Union members who think they are entitled to higher pay, just because they have UAW membership.

As for your mom, being a nurse, where does it say in the medical books that in order to be a RN, you have to a part of the Unions. Little hint: There is no such statement. Your mom could easily find a job in the medical industry and make a good wage with out the backing of a union. All this whining about Union this and Union that is ALL Bull SHIZAT! Get over it, stop being lazy...and just * SNIPPING * work!

reply to post by wantsome


And how's that working out for Michigan?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by EssenceOfSilence
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

If these steps don't work and you want to go back to the way it was, vote them out in 2012/14 and elect some folks that will reinstate it.

Bush was voted in twice, remember?

I shouldn't be laughing at this really, but then again its the only thing I can do, laugh at how easily fooled we are. And no I am not so much concerned at the fact these people were voted in for their policies as I am at the ignorance regarding the result of these policies. If you voted for Scott Walker and others, ok, you feel he is the right guy for the job, but if he implements a policy that does more harm to this economy and working folks and you ignore this, that is when I have issue.

If you don't like the process you will need to move to a socialist nation,

If you going to throw around the socialist tag, I suggest you throw it back to Walker since our taxes pay for his healthcare, and the fact more than 40 million elderly americans take our taxes for healthcare as well.

...and by the way, socialist countries are surviving much better than we are.

My point is we have a constitution that will work for the people if the people are willing to follow it and more importantly get back to it.

Socialism is a form of government that has failed time and time again and will continue to fail. It may make some folks happy for while until the money runs out, then it fails. I should laugh at you for suggesting that socialism is even remotely a good idea, but I don't since it is sad we have folks that think it will work after so many failures. Socialism gives way to capitalism or tyranny every time.

Our system on the other hand has survived and thrived for 224 years and still has plenty left if we can abandon the socialist ideas that have manifest themselves due to the lack of studying history. As long the socialist agenda is pursued the sooner the system will fail and will put our nation in the same cycle as the rest of world has been on.

There is NO CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT prohibiting CHILD LABOR under any circumstances. There is an amendment but it was never ratified....one of six.

(Correct me if I'm wrong please)

Do you all take the stern stance that based on the Constitution that it is ok for businesses to hire children for any job under any circumstance?

I make this argument for those who keep using the Constitution to defend corporations....

reply to post by David9176


Exactly! These people saying guys like Scott Walker are "protecting their freedom" are really buying into the propaganda.

This is obviously about CORPORATE DEREGULATION! They want to blame the bad economy on unions and not face the facts that deregulation is what ran this country into the ground by allowing the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the planet.

But if you believe in supporting the small, responsible local businesses, you are a socialist. American ideologies have become so twisted. People, if deregulation allows corporations to monopolize, say goodbye to the small business, if you haven't already.

Originally posted by David9176
There is NO CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT prohibiting CHILD LABOR under any circumstances. There is an amendment but it was never ratified....one of six.

(Correct me if I'm wrong please)

Do you all take the stern stance that based on the Constitution that it is ok for businesses to hire children for any job under any circumstance?

I make this argument for those who keep using the Constitution to defend corporations....

edit on 10-3-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

There is no amendment per say, but the child labor act of 1938 that was voted into law, now known as the FLSA implements the standards that are mandatory for all states to observe. So where is your argument exactly?

Originally posted by EssenceOfSilence
My point is we have a constitution that will work for the people if the people are willing to follow it and more importantly get back to it.

I see your point. You have your own personal view about the constitution and thats that, I get it.

Socialism is a form of government that has failed time and time again

And yet the United States can't seem to get rid of its own socialist programmes. Medicare, medicaid, welfare and even taxes, all forms of distributive wealth that have been in place for some time now. The importance and dependence on these programmes are so far that in 2009 the GOP announced their full support of keeping medicare in place. It is silly to argue socialism has failed, considering virtually all nations are socialist in nature, including the United states.

There has never been a successful socialist free government in modern time.

Originally posted by David9176
There is NO CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT prohibiting CHILD LABOR under any circumstances. There is an amendment but it was never ratified....one of six.

(Correct me if I'm wrong please)

Do you all take the stern stance that based on the Constitution that it is ok for businesses to hire children for any job under any circumstance?

I make this argument for those who keep using the Constitution to defend corporations....

edit on 10-3-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

You are wrong. The constitution gives the government the right to regulate business, it is called the commerce clause. Federal laws were then enacted that restrict the employment and abuse of children in the workplace. Your argument doesnt hold water.

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


And how the heck do you think those corporations are able to make that profit??? The Investors sure don't do all the work. Neither do the CEOs.

Have you ever seen "Undercover Boss"? These CEOs and other board members have NO CLUE what goes on "down in the ditch" in regards to how hard their employees work to keep the company afloat.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Yes, some socialism is useful especially for the elderly, orphans, and other less fortunate folks. The key to it is make it temporary and design it to help folks get back to standing on their own. And our constitution allows for it. The socialism I oppose is the thought that the government should do it all all the time.

I am sure when we boil it all down our views are closer than they appear.

Thanks for the comments.

I wanted to remind people who keep complaining about these public union workers being greedy and not "tightening their belts" like the taxpayers who pay them are, that the unions in Wisconsin AGREED to a reduction in pay, contributing more to their retirement and bennies. What the were NOT going to give up were their RIGHTS.

At this point, I don't understand why people keep complaining about their pay when they already agreed to take a reduction in pay. That is not greed.

reply to post by nunya13


I'll tell you why people keep complaining. Because they have NO rights at their own job and think that they are being fairly compensated by their master. Or they are an owner that loves being able to exploit their workers. They are mad at groups that actually fight to be fairly compensated instead of giving into corporate greed.

If we can't level the playing field, even marginally, then our society is going to be miserable, while a few are living the dream.