It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Republican Michigan Governor Plans to Raise Taxes on the Poor to Finance Tax cuts for the Rich

page: 4
14
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 08:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


That's a little easier said than done though. The vast majority of people work for someone else, and there taxes are taken out before they even have the option to "raise their middle finger". Fortunately or not (depending on the economy) I own my business, I could of course not pay my taxes every month; however, I would lose my business license and then be unemployed myself as well as the people that work for me.



I don't mean that, I mean farm your own food, use wells for water, use wind and solar power to power your home, these are all things that you work on putting together while working until you have no bills, then don't work, besides farming is full time job. Then you won't be recieving income to pay any tax on.
edit on 9-3-2011 by ldyserenity because: edited for clarity




posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 08:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90
 





If by 'spewing hate' you mean telling people the truth, then yes, I freely admit to it.


Typical of the ever deceitful priest class lawyer set, they will place quotation marks around a phrase that is not at all a direct quote of the person they pretend to be quoting. You did not engage in any truth in that other thread and spent the vast majority of your posts in that thread attacking other peoples positions without offering any support of your arguments. Your reifications are unimpressive.




That thread was about someone making the insane claim that you can avoid tax by challenging the Court's authority and jurisdiction to tax individuals. It was utterly vapid.


Either you are willfully lying, or are as ignorant as you come off. That thread is not about what you claim it is, and is instead a thread asking about the proper jurisdiction of courts, and wondering if the "freeman movement" is on to something.




I commented on your prior post because you are so grotesquely out of touch with what a large portion of the population in America are living with right now. I have little sympathy for those that cannot have sympathy for others.


You arrogant snob! You have clearly made assumptions about me that are so off base the stench of your odious arrogance can be smelled clear across the Atlantic. Out of touch, am I? You fool, until two years ago I was a working class slob desperately trying to climb out of debt with no hopes of ever doing so. I finally found the courage to quit my job and strike out on my own. I still struggle to this day, and by struggle I mean really struggle in ways your privileged ass probably has no idea what is meant by struggle. As I write this post I am down to my last $24 and unclear when my next paying gig will come in.

Let me make this clear. I do not offer this full disclosure to whine about my situation, but instead to clear up the matter with the pretentious in this thread who wish to immediately assume that just because I don't fall in step to the Marxist mantras that I must be some evil rich guy. I have been poor all my life, and I if I ever do build any wealth, it will be because of the efforts I have made these past few years, and the years that follow, and will have nothing at all to do with the wasted years I spent working for other clowns.

I do not pity you, I revile you and your ilk. It is you who wish to subjugate and you who are out of touch with the real problems of people. I am in contact with those people on a daily basis, and they do not pity me for my efforts, they pay me the respect I have earned, those who can afford my services hire me out of that respect, and those who can't offer a contract of barter. They understand what I stand for, and they are waking up and are beginning to understand what people like you stand for, and if I were you, I would tone down the arrogance a notch or two, as you have no idea the tumult that will surely come if the priest class lawyer set and their government cronies do not back off of the market place and let be what must let be.


If you do achieve success and wealth will you turn your back on those who hired you or offered a barter when they couldn't afford your services? Those who saw potential in you and may not have been able to march as far out of the mud as you hope to.

Most people who grow up poor and become wealthy give back to the community that they had lived in. I grew up poor and worked my way up to middle class. Those in my neighborhood who made it out and made something of theirselves, give back to that community to help the younger generation do the same. Will you do that? Or will you tell them to get bent and do it on your own?

These people in here in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana aren't fighting the legislation because they want handouts. They are fighting to keep the contract that was negotiated and signed by both parties. They are fighting for the right bargain, to insure safe working enviroments and to keep the right to work for a decent living.

They're not fighting for handouts!
edit on 9-3-2011 by leemachino because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 08:59 PM
link   
reply to post by duality90
 


Before I address your earlier post, allow me to address this one first, and to make perfectly clear that this thread is not about that other thread, and I only brought it up because you are doing here precisely what you have done in that thread, and that is post a bunch of ad hominem attacks on people, and in this thread, you made the mistake of picking a fight with me on a day when no work is coming in and I have too much time on my hands to waste in this site and am all too ready to take on posers such as yourself.

Take your most recent arrogant assumption, for example:




But if that is the case and you have been there amidst the rough, why do you hate the poor and the unemployed so much?


This is your ignorant assumption, and nowhere will you find any words of mine to support your assumption that I hate the poor and unemployed. What I have is low tolerance for whining that the only answer to poor peoples problems is employment or government programs. What once made the United States great is not what the United States is today, and the difference lies in too many people assuming they are owed a job just because without one they will perish. If people perish because they do not have a job, then they have perished due to their own lack of ingenuity, and it was ingenuity that made the United States a once great nation.

The pilgrims did not set sail on the Mayflower because they heard there were plenty of killer jobs with great benefits over in the New World, and the expansion out Westward was not predicated on the belief that there were killer jobs to be had. The nation that was once the United States was built by the blood, sweat, and tears of everyday people who had a dream...The American Dream.

Today, too many people pooh-pooh on that American Dream, insisting it was an illusion all along, and expect all of us who cling to our dreams to let go of them and accept that some mysterious "Powers That Be" control every aspect of our daily lives and all we can do is what "they" expect us to do, and you readily play into that dogma:




Also, why the constant hatred of lawyers? It's the corporate bankers and the lobbyists you should be hanging out to dry.


Your bad magic trick of deflection is easily spotted. Corporations exist by charter, and it is the priest class lawyer set who regularly advise the American public who does have the temerity to go into business for themselves to incorporate. This advise is rarely in the best interest of the proprietors, and always in the best interest of the priest class lawyers doing the advising.

The Patriot Act, the current debacle that is known as "health care" legislation, are fine examples of the work that lawyers do. The proclivity to write more than a thousand pages of legislation for one single act is not a habit of non lawyer types, it is the priest class lawyer set who have foisted this atrocity upon the American public. It is also the priest class lawyer set who spend too much time attempting to convince the masses that law is not natural and is rather the arbitrary and capricious acts of legislation in an effort to achieve governmental social control.

Lawyers in the United States are licensed attorneys, and as such they are officers of the court, which means their fealty is to the system, not their clients. Whoever coined the phrase: "a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client", it was more than likely coined by a priest class lawyer. In today's American society it is becoming increasingly dangerous to hire an attorney to represent them. The Federal government currently has a 97% conviction rate. Is this the great good you think lawyers have done society?

Lawyers are so prone to screw their clients that there now exists federal prison consultants to prepare you for the inevitability of staying in a federal prison if ever charged with a federal crime, and why? Because you sure as hell cannot count on a lawyer helping you secure your freedom in such a circumstance.

Pity me all you want, fool. I know who you are and what you represent, and you do not represent the poor and downtrodden that is for damn sure.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 09:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by duality90
You have obviously not lived in the United States in the past few years. The nation puts on a face of unity and solidarity in the face of burgeoning military commitments, but the moment money or taxation comes into it, there may as well be no federal government and simply 50 sovereign nations all hating each other.

You are right...I am a visitor and an observer. My observation remains that if you weren't juggling those military commitments, you'd be a lot better off on all other counts.
Yes, we have some too...but we also have an election looming and hopefully we can bring the troops home. Well, that and dump Steve.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 09:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90
 



Take your most recent arrogant assumption, for example:




But if that is the case and you have been there amidst the rough, why do you hate the poor and the unemployed so much?


This is your ignorant assumption, and nowhere will you find any words of mine to support your assumption that I hate the poor and unemployed. What I have is low tolerance for whining that the only answer to poor peoples problems is employment or government programs. What once made the United States great is not what the United States is today, and the difference lies in too many people assuming they are owed a job just because without one they will perish. If people perish because they do not have a job, then they have perished due to their own lack of ingenuity, and it was ingenuity that made the United States a once great nation.

The pilgrims did not set sail on the Mayflower because they heard there were plenty of killer jobs with great benefits over in the New World, and the expansion out Westward was not predicated on the belief that there were killer jobs to be had. The nation that was once the United States was built by the blood, sweat, and tears of everyday people who had a dream...The American Dream.

Today, too many people pooh-pooh on that American Dream, insisting it was an illusion all along, and expect all of us who cling to our dreams to let go of them and accept that some mysterious "Powers That Be" control every aspect of our daily lives and all we can do is what "they" expect us to do, and you readily play into that dogma:




Also, why the constant hatred of lawyers? It's the corporate bankers and the lobbyists you should be hanging out to dry.


Your bad magic trick of deflection is easily spotted. Corporations exist by charter, and it is the priest class lawyer set who regularly advise the American public who does have the temerity to go into business for themselves to incorporate. This advise is rarely in the best interest of the proprietors, and always in the best interest of the priest class lawyers doing the advising.

The Patriot Act, the current debacle that is known as "health care" legislation, are fine examples of the work that lawyers do. The proclivity to write more than a thousand pages of legislation for one single act is not a habit of non lawyer types, it is the priest class lawyer set who have foisted this atrocity upon the American public. It is also the priest class lawyer set who spend too much time attempting to convince the masses that law is not natural and is rather the arbitrary and capricious acts of legislation in an effort to achieve governmental social control.

Lawyers in the United States are licensed attorneys, and as such they are officers of the court, which means their fealty is to the system, not their clients. Whoever coined the phrase: "a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client", it was more than likely coined by a priest class lawyer. In today's American society it is becoming increasingly dangerous to hire an attorney to represent them. The Federal government currently has a 97% conviction rate. Is this the great good you think lawyers have done society?

Lawyers are so prone to screw their clients that there now exists federal prison consultants to prepare you for the inevitability of staying in a federal prison if ever charged with a federal crime, and why? Because you sure as hell cannot count on a lawyer helping you secure your freedom in such a circumstance.

Pity me all you want, fool. I know who you are and what you represent, and you do not represent the poor and downtrodden that is for damn sure.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



Nicely put



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 09:35 PM
link   
reply to post by leemachino
 





If you do achieve success and wealth will you turn your back on those who hired you or offered a barter when they couldn't afford your services? Those who saw potential in you and may not have been able to march as far out of the mud as you hope to.


Dear God, does your arrogance know no bounds? Only $24 to my name, and all ready you have decided that if and when I do achieve any modicum of wealth through my own effort, that this will turn me into yet another evil rich person..and please do not fall back on the dis-ingenuousness that you were merely asking a question. What possible motive could you have for asking such a question.

Do you think, in my daily encounters with those just as poor as I, and the unemployed, that I tolerate any proclivity towards whining about job loss in this real world? I take to task, both in the real world, and in this site, anyone who thinks it prudent to complain that they are owed a job just because without one they do not have an income.

I live in Los Angeles, and I don't see or meet or hear about any lawyers courageously fighting for the street vendors who defy LAMC 42(b) which seeks to prohibit street vending. Nobody fights for these poor people who do not whine about not having a job and instead go out each and every day and sell their wares in an attempt to make a living, and on top of all their hard work, blood, sweat, and tears, they face the tyranny of a municipality that deigns to tell them they have no right to do business for themselves. You dare lecture me about the unemployed?

Who fights for those who dream of creating their own business from the top up, and will even dare to defy bogus legislation without the help of an attorney, in order to do what is their God given right to do? Not you, my friend, not you. Not any lawyer I know of. For the priest class lawyer set licensing schemes to do what would otherwise be a right to do is a perfectly good thing for society.

Get off your high horse and go to a city where street vendors are being criminalized and talk to them! How do I know about them? I was one of them! When I was cited for LAMC 42(b), I went to trial without a lawyer, watched the judge attempt to trick me into waiving my right to assistance of council by asking me if I was "waiving my right to an attorney" - a right that does not exist - only to watch that judge discover that this case was never going to trial and there would be no need for any assistance of council.

It took me less than 20 minutes to have the stupid charges against me dismissed. To this day, I continually find those street vendors and share with them my understandings of the law, and how to beat LAMC 42(b) if circumstances should demand it. Where are the priest class lawyer set? They are no where to be seen in the thick of it all. Poser!



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:38 PM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


High horse, hardly. I sense a lot of anger in your replies and was trying to get more of an understanding of your opinion of how you would handle yourself if you "made it" doing what you want to do in life.

Everyone who questions you must look down on you. That's what I'm getting from your replies.

I did agree and liked what you wrote about the pioneers, pilgrims and the Patriot Act. I guess you didn't see that cause I was on my horse. (Yes I do like to use sarcasm like other popmous asses)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:03 AM
link   
reply to post by leemachino
 


You bet I am angry! I am not alone in the effort of individuals who just want to make their own way and be their own bosses and enjoy the right to enter into a contract with someone else without any government intrusion. Even so, we who do this are facing an uphill battle all the way because of so many who have no ambition what-so-ever to go into business for themselves. This is fine that not all people want to own their own businesses. What is not fine is to insist that we all must surrender to a corporatist world that is regulated in a way where all individuals are regulated and forced to employ people on legislative terms rather than just simply make a contract.

I have clients who regularly insist I have to give them my Social Security Number because "its the law". When I refuse they get angry with me. I tell them to go make a contract with someone who will comply. Some do, most want my services, so when they can't win the "its the law argument" they drop that and start arguing that they are losing money off of me because they cannot claim me on their taxes.

First of all, this is not the law, and when the shut up long enough for me to point out the actual law and what they need to do in the event of running into someone like me, they discover that they can and they do claim my expense on their tax forms without me ever having to sign any government contract, or surrender any Social Security Number to them. Secondly, what has happened to us as Americans that we have gone from the Boston Tea Party to a nation that insists that the only way we can do business with each other is by first getting permission from the IRS?

You bet I'm angry. There are so many small businesses out there struggling to stay alive, and the vast majority of those people struggling as they do resent very much all the government intrusions placed upon them. Fewer still have the temerity to just tell the government to go to hell and challenge the jurisdiction of these intrusions. Those who do are treated as criminals.

I enter a thread and take someone to task for whining about there not being enough jobs, and it doesn't take long before someone else enters this thread and assumes I am some corporate fat cat who lives in the lap of luxury, and no consideration is given at all to the struggling poor who do not work for other people, but instead cling to the American Dream of being their own boss, and making a living honestly through hard work and effort.

I don't know why you asked me if I would turn my back on the poor if I ever got wealthy, I just know you did, and given that I am not clear how I will pay this months bills, such a question struck me as needless and missing the point. The point is, I am one of the poor, but instead of whining about it, I would rather just make my way, and fight whatever obstacles are needlessly put in my way in the name of decency, in the name of honesty, and in the name of freedom.

Somehow, that seems to make me come across as some evil rich guy.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by leemachino
 





If you do achieve success and wealth will you turn your back on those who hired you or offered a barter when they couldn't afford your services? Those who saw potential in you and may not have been able to march as far out of the mud as you hope to.


Dear God, does your arrogance know no bounds? Only $24 to my name, and all ready you have decided that if and when I do achieve any modicum of wealth through my own effort, that this will turn me into yet another evil rich person..and please do not fall back on the dis-ingenuousness that you were merely asking a question. What possible motive could you have for asking such a question.

Do you think, in my daily encounters with those just as poor as I, and the unemployed, that I tolerate any proclivity towards whining about job loss in this real world? I take to task, both in the real world, and in this site, anyone who thinks it prudent to complain that they are owed a job just because without one they do not have an income.

I live in Los Angeles, and I don't see or meet or hear about any lawyers courageously fighting for the street vendors who defy LAMC 42(b) which seeks to prohibit street vending. Nobody fights for these poor people who do not whine about not having a job and instead go out each and every day and sell their wares in an attempt to make a living, and on top of all their hard work, blood, sweat, and tears, they face the tyranny of a municipality that deigns to tell them they have no right to do business for themselves. You dare lecture me about the unemployed?

Who fights for those who dream of creating their own business from the top up, and will even dare to defy bogus legislation without the help of an attorney, in order to do what is their God given right to do? Not you, my friend, not you. Not any lawyer I know of. For the priest class lawyer set licensing schemes to do what would otherwise be a right to do is a perfectly good thing for society.

Get off your high horse and go to a city where street vendors are being criminalized and talk to them! How do I know about them? I was one of them! When I was cited for LAMC 42(b), I went to trial without a lawyer, watched the judge attempt to trick me into waiving my right to assistance of council by asking me if I was "waiving my right to an attorney" - a right that does not exist - only to watch that judge discover that this case was never going to trial and there would be no need for any assistance of council.

It took me less than 20 minutes to have the stupid charges against me dismissed. To this day, I continually find those street vendors and share with them my understandings of the law, and how to beat LAMC 42(b) if circumstances should demand it. Where are the priest class lawyer set? They are no where to be seen in the thick of it all. Poser!


That's a mouthful. You presume to know where I come from and what I fight for. I grew up in Detroit and have seen all sorts of street vendors. I'm glad I got an answer to the question, you do help the vendors by educating them.

To call me a poser or even suggest I was lecturing is way off base. I am merely trying to have a civil dialogue about the state of our society. Without that how can anybody gain understanding of one another. If asking questions or replying to your posts equals picking a fight, I will cease from this point forward. I know from experience that angry people cannot take emotion out the the conversation.

Good day to you sir, I disagree with some of your comments and agree with the ones about working hard and not whining. I will continue to fight for my fellow Michiganders who are having their contracts broken.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:18 AM
link   
reply to post by leemachino
 


Yet, in the end, all you can do is disingenuously fall back on "I was just asking a question". What a question it was! Why would you ask a guy with $24 in his wallet, worried about the bills, if he would turn his back on the poor if he ever got wealthy? What sort of conversation did you truly believe that would engender?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 01:53 AM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I did not fall back on "I was just asking a question". I did pose questions to gain insight to further understand your rants. What I gathered (in my opinion) from your early posts is that people should only look out for themselves. I realized that was not the case when you commented about the other vendors and the legal advice you gave them.

Anger I do understand. I grew up very poor in Detroit and was angry about that. I worked hard and took on a mountain of debt in the form of student loans to get a bachelors degree. Only to get a job making 20k a year while working 7 days a week. I was angry and I quit. I started working construction and after a few years started my own crew. Paid off my debts and took on more to go back to school when the market collapsed. I got an associates in a new field. I now have a good job that I like. The point is, I used anger as motivation. I agree that many people lack ambition and I took offense when you called me arrogant, disengenuous and a poser for trying to have a discussion on a complex issue.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You mentioned people should be allowed to simply enter a contract without government intrusiveness. That's exactly what this thread was started about. Our governer wants a law allowing him to appoint an emergency manager that can break existing contracts and supercede local elected officials. A republican wants government intervention to break legally binding contracts that were agreed upon by both parties.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 07:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90
 


Before I address your earlier post, allow me to address this one first, and to make perfectly clear that this thread is not about that other thread, and I only brought it up because you are doing here precisely what you have done in that thread, and that is post a bunch of ad hominem attacks on people, and in this thread, you made the mistake of picking a fight with me on a day when no work is coming in and I have too much time on my hands to waste in this site and am all too ready to take on posers such as yourself.

Take your most recent arrogant assumption, for example:




But if that is the case and you have been there amidst the rough, why do you hate the poor and the unemployed so much?


This is your ignorant assumption, and nowhere will you find any words of mine to support your assumption that I hate the poor and unemployed. What I have is low tolerance for whining that the only answer to poor peoples problems is employment or government programs. What once made the United States great is not what the United States is today, and the difference lies in too many people assuming they are owed a job just because without one they will perish. If people perish because they do not have a job, then they have perished due to their own lack of ingenuity, and it was ingenuity that made the United States a once great nation.

The pilgrims did not set sail on the Mayflower because they heard there were plenty of killer jobs with great benefits over in the New World, and the expansion out Westward was not predicated on the belief that there were killer jobs to be had. The nation that was once the United States was built by the blood, sweat, and tears of everyday people who had a dream...The American Dream.

Today, too many people pooh-pooh on that American Dream, insisting it was an illusion all along, and expect all of us who cling to our dreams to let go of them and accept that some mysterious "Powers That Be" control every aspect of our daily lives and all we can do is what "they" expect us to do, and you readily play into that dogma:




Also, why the constant hatred of lawyers? It's the corporate bankers and the lobbyists you should be hanging out to dry.


Your bad magic trick of deflection is easily spotted. Corporations exist by charter, and it is the priest class lawyer set who regularly advise the American public who does have the temerity to go into business for themselves to incorporate. This advise is rarely in the best interest of the proprietors, and always in the best interest of the priest class lawyers doing the advising.

The Patriot Act, the current debacle that is known as "health care" legislation, are fine examples of the work that lawyers do. The proclivity to write more than a thousand pages of legislation for one single act is not a habit of non lawyer types, it is the priest class lawyer set who have foisted this atrocity upon the American public. It is also the priest class lawyer set who spend too much time attempting to convince the masses that law is not natural and is rather the arbitrary and capricious acts of legislation in an effort to achieve governmental social control.

Lawyers in the United States are licensed attorneys, and as such they are officers of the court, which means their fealty is to the system, not their clients. Whoever coined the phrase: "a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a client", it was more than likely coined by a priest class lawyer. In today's American society it is becoming increasingly dangerous to hire an attorney to represent them. The Federal government currently has a 97% conviction rate. Is this the great good you think lawyers have done society?

Lawyers are so prone to screw their clients that there now exists federal prison consultants to prepare you for the inevitability of staying in a federal prison if ever charged with a federal crime, and why? Because you sure as hell cannot count on a lawyer helping you secure your freedom in such a circumstance.

Pity me all you want, fool. I know who you are and what you represent, and you do not represent the poor and downtrodden that is for damn sure.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)


The Patriot Act is not the product of people who respect the rule of law. It is the product of Republican politicians who bemoan the 'trashing of the constitution' in one moment, and then write legislation to supersede it's authority in the next - the same people you would vote in on the belief that it is social welfare that is killing America.

Your 'american dream' and the Mayflower analogy are not contextually appropriate. America was not made great solely by virtue of pure ambition - up and until the late 1930s and 1940s, the United States was neither a superpower nor the economic powerhouse that it became after the invigoration of its industry when the need to tool up for world war 2 and provide arms under lend-lease became necessary. It was a mixture of various factors which made America successful, whilst not discounting the ambition of its people. Pure ambition alone would have never got the United States anywhere, if it did not have the right natural resources and the prevailing economic conditions were not right.

The reason America is seeing its political and economic hegemony slowly receding is because the United States, although still the worlds largest economy, does not 'produce' in the sense that it used to. You certainly have more industry than the United Kingdom, but cheaper labour costs and higher profit margins are forcing production to move to China and India, both of whose economies are rapidly outgrowing the West.

And stop using that stupid phrase 'the priest lawyer class'. It makes you sound like an uneducated ponce repeatedly spouting the same thing which noone has ever heard before.

And as for your assumptions? I imagine you think me to be someone in my mid 30s/40s? Wrong! I'm in my final year of law school.

Not quite the East-Coast fat-cat you had in mind eh? Assumptions go both ways pal...



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 07:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by leemachino
 





If you do achieve success and wealth will you turn your back on those who hired you or offered a barter when they couldn't afford your services? Those who saw potential in you and may not have been able to march as far out of the mud as you hope to.


Dear God, does your arrogance know no bounds? Only $24 to my name, and all ready you have decided that if and when I do achieve any modicum of wealth through my own effort, that this will turn me into yet another evil rich person..and please do not fall back on the dis-ingenuousness that you were merely asking a question. What possible motive could you have for asking such a question.

Do you think, in my daily encounters with those just as poor as I, and the unemployed, that I tolerate any proclivity towards whining about job loss in this real world? I take to task, both in the real world, and in this site, anyone who thinks it prudent to complain that they are owed a job just because without one they do not have an income.

I live in Los Angeles, and I don't see or meet or hear about any lawyers courageously fighting for the street vendors who defy LAMC 42(b) which seeks to prohibit street vending. Nobody fights for these poor people who do not whine about not having a job and instead go out each and every day and sell their wares in an attempt to make a living, and on top of all their hard work, blood, sweat, and tears, they face the tyranny of a municipality that deigns to tell them they have no right to do business for themselves. You dare lecture me about the unemployed?

Who fights for those who dream of creating their own business from the top up, and will even dare to defy bogus legislation without the help of an attorney, in order to do what is their God given right to do? Not you, my friend, not you. Not any lawyer I know of. For the priest class lawyer set licensing schemes to do what would otherwise be a right to do is a perfectly good thing for society.

Get off your high horse and go to a city where street vendors are being criminalized and talk to them! How do I know about them? I was one of them! When I was cited for LAMC 42(b), I went to trial without a lawyer, watched the judge attempt to trick me into waiving my right to assistance of council by asking me if I was "waiving my right to an attorney" - a right that does not exist - only to watch that judge discover that this case was never going to trial and there would be no need for any assistance of council.

It took me less than 20 minutes to have the stupid charges against me dismissed. To this day, I continually find those street vendors and share with them my understandings of the law, and how to beat LAMC 42(b) if circumstances should demand it. Where are the priest class lawyer set? They are no where to be seen in the thick of it all. Poser!


Ever heard of pro-bono work? They're out there, there's just not many of them...



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 08:45 AM
link   
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions


Please do not evade the automatic censors.

edit on 10-3-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by Kargun
Bout time people that work hard and become wealthy through blood sweat and tears gets a break. It's not easy being super rich.



Corporate wins! Yay! minimum wage and higher taxes! Yay!



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:12 AM
link   
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 



In an unfunded defined benefit pension, no assets are set aside and the benefits are paid for by the employer or other pension sponsor as and when they are paid. Pension arrangements provided by the state in most countries in the world are unfunded, with benefits paid directly from current workers' contributions and taxes.



Another growing challenge is the recent trend of states and businesses in the United States purposely under-funding their pension schemes in order to push the costs onto the federal government. For example, in 2009, the majority of states have unfunded pension liabilities exceeding all reported state debt.


I'm sorry, but our state pension plans are not solvent, however Canada's and Australia'a are. You see, here in the US, state pension plans are considered as "unfunded"...not like what you have up north.

As to the poor, learn to hunt and farm. If someone has no skills or talent that can bring one buisness or bartering ability, then they should at least learn to sustain there own life without the pillaging of others hard work. Or die, it's called life. This reality is not some utopian universe where it rains food, to gain wealth you actually need to do something...expend some sort of effort.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by LordBaskettIV
 

About the only thing the City of Detroit has done well is it's Pension Fund.
It is doing well, despite some bad investments.

So, guess what, the State of Michigan has decided it needs to absorb it, to help it out!
Pshaw, all they want is their hands on it because their fund is in trouble.

I hope no one thinks I think everything the State wants to do is fine, in order to get out of its financial hole.

This may be slightly off topic, but not ALL government pension funds run in the red in the US.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:49 PM
link   
reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 





This may be slightly off topic, but not ALL government pension funds run in the red in the US.


No, but the ones that are in the red should not be propped up at the tax payers expence. I agree with you, if it works it shouldn't be messed with. But, because government is involved, they will simply raid and pillage anything that is solvent. This how our current government works. The state or fed could not raid funds if the workers had not given such authority to them. Why can't the average worker simply save/invest his/her own money( like a self funded pension plan)? Allow the government to hold on to your money, and this how they will repay you.


Bradley Belt, former executive director of the PBGC (the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, the federal agency that insures private-sector defined-benefit pension plans in the event of bankrupment), testified before a congressional hearing in October 2004, “I am particularly concerned with the temptation, and indeed, growing tendency, to use the pension insurance fund as a means to obtain an interest-free and risk-free loan to enable companies to restructure. Unfortunately, the current calculation appears to be that shifting pension liabilities onto other premium payers or potentially taxpayers is the path of least resistance rather than a last resort.”


This exactly what the government is now doing...basicly what corporations started to do 7+ years ago.
edit on 3/10/2011 by LordBaskettIV because: to add



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 01:12 PM
link   
reply to post by The Sword
 


Sure I guess if you define ignorant as any disagreement with your carefully inculcated preconceptions. The left (Ie you), makes all their decisions based on emotions. A set of emotions which is fully and carefully manipulated by the elite that you claim to despise but are actually serving wholeheartedly.

The fact is there is not enough money in the whole world to pay the poor. Even if your dream scenario of all the worlds wealth being confiscated and redistributed to the 'poor' were realized, the grand total of everyone's net worth is less than $10K US. That won't buy you either housing or food in the US.

Logically therefore, if you actually had any compassion for the poor, rather than just an envious desire to bring down the rich, you would favor policies that provide jobs and improve the economic situation. For the long term benefit of the poor you do not embrace policies that bankrupt cities and nations. However the demagoguery in politics prevents the masses from thinking clearly.



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join