ATS Street View: 11: Abortion and Racism in New York City

reply to post by JR MacBeth

As usual Maslo, your logic is excellent. While I don't always agree with your positions, I respect that you have the courage to lay it out, even if in doing so, it will bother the average person.

Thanks for the appreciation. And yes, I believe honesty (to others, and also to yourself) is a very valuable virtue.

I know someone will be here shortly to scold me and say that "science" is on their side, but from my point of view, something like "personhood" (and rights that go with it) is out of the realm of science. I suppose advancements can be made, but I would have a hard time thinking that science will resolve the matter. It can shed light on the issue, it can perhaps help with the limits, and reasons you mention, but I can't see how it can ever do much more than that.

QFT. Thats what prolife advocates sometimes dont get - the question of what qualities should life have to be protected cannot be answered with simple biology, but it is a question of philosophy, and perhaps morality. It ultimately boils down to the question WHY is murder outlawed in our society. Is it because it is killing of a member of the same species, or is it because is it terminating a sentient, or intelligent being?

I appreciate you shining the light of logic on the topic, and pointing out the inconsistencies. Regardless of a person's position on the matter, I think they could benefit from at least maintaining internal consistency with the things they (supposedly) believe.

Yes, thats tied to the abovementioned honesty to yourself. If you hold an internally inconsistent stance, that means you are not being honest even with yourself. How can you then be honest to others?

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being. By this definition abortion is not murder since:
1. It's legal
2. A fetus is not a human being

So by the legal definition, it's not a murder, but what about the general definition? As mentioned before, a fetus isn't a human being (as it doesn't possess the characteristics that human beings do) but most importantly, it's harvesting the body of an actual human being. Sorry, but the rights of a potential human being don't override the rights of a living human being. Pro-Lifers who call abortion murder only do it emotionally charge people, and as such should be ashamed of themselves for doing so. It's quite simple: If you don't like abortion, don't get one.

reply to post by technical difficulties

2. A fetus is not a human being

Indeed. Abortion debate often boils down to when does human life begin. But this is in fact, irrelevant. Human life is not (and should not) be protected. Only human (and also non-human, IMHO) beings should. Murder is also defined like that.