Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

I Dont understand the concept of sin....

page: 2
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join

posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 12:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by Arkaleus
You have painted a different picture of Christ than I have come to understand. You have Feminized Him. You have Feminized Christ and put the rest of mankind's heads down because you have assumed that none of us have made any progression, you have rendered us into poverty and depression.


Poverty and depression? Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

This is wealth of spirit and the joy it brings.

Or do you speak of earthly poverty?


It isn't pride to be certain and confident in your path to perfection. That is what gives you joy. I will assume that you are fairly joyous in your own salvation and knowledge, but you choose to hide it.

It is not pride to be certain and confident.

If you go back to my last post, and learn from the question "Why did their sins remain?", You will see the pride of which I speak.


(please answer in your next post) You never commented on the command Jesus gave about selling your coat to buy a sword. What do you say to that? Would you obey such a command?

He gave the command to arm yourself and to follow him. Still want to tell me that Jesus was passive?

Since you are in teaching mode, teach me about this command he gave. Tell me why his desciple cut off the ear of one of the servants of the high priest. Tell me why Jesus caused his children to fight.


First, if you read the in context (The verse is Luke 22:36), it would be apparent that he did not intend it to be literal. If it were literal, two swords would not be enough (Luke 22:38) for 11 men to stop the armed guards that would be coming to arrest Jesus. Obviously, if it wasn't literal for his disciples it wouldn't be literal for you.

Second, if you read the other in context (assuming you also reffering to luke), it would be apparent that the disciple did not act on Jesus' orders, but acted on his own accord. Jesus ordered him to stop, then healed the servants ear.

Now, back to the first. Since it is not literal then what does it mean?
If you read this verse closely, you see something very peculiar.

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

It is divded into two parts.

This does not say "if you have a purse and money, buy a sword. if you don't sell your clothes to buy one."

The first part says if you have a purse, take it and your money.

The second part says if you do not have a sword, then sell your clothes and buy one. So what is this sword that you would have to sell your clothes off your back if you did not already have it? The Sword of spirit. The word of God. (Ephesians 6:17) This is the same throughout his teachings, be humbled to learn his teachings, which are the words of God.

So why then must you take your purse and money with you? If you look back one verse (Luke 22:25) he refers to Luke 10, where he sent 70 disciples out like sheeps among wolves. The reason he sent them out without these items, is because they would not be accousted by thieves and muggers if they had nothing to steal. So they could make it from town to town.

Now, Jesus is telling them to take their purse. This would attract the evil do'ers along the roads to them.

Why would they want to do so? To hit them with the sword of spirit-- the word of God.

In essence, Jesus is telling his followers: do not shield yourselfs from evil, draw it to you, so you may show them the word of God. Through the word of God they will spead the word of God troughout the world.


Now back to the second, if you were to look at Matthew 26:56-57 for this same account,

Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?


(please answer) Have you read any other books besides the Bible? You seem to have been explosed to only the most modern translations of the Bible, and your entire awareness seems to have been grown from that single source.


Do you refer to books that explain what the bible is supposed to teach?
No. But I am certain I have talked to many people who have read such books. I have used Strong's concordance, more or less, I have never owned the book, but I have owned a computer version since '92. But before that made sense, I had to learn how those people thought when they put things to words. Which is really when I discovered all the "words" in the bibles are just "labels" to describe an event or an idea. As long as you could understand the event or idea, it didn't matter which words were used. After all, there is more than one language on this planet.

As far as my exposure to the bible, when I discovered the truth of the existance of God I was an atheist. After I discovered the truth of the existance of God, I was an atheist who believed in God. That is to say, every argument against the bible was still part of who I was. The only thing that changed was I believed in God. It took me years of studying and prayer to understand all those things which before seemed like inconsistancies and contradictions. I did not study out of one translation of the bible, understanding of the truth is not always found by reading just one English version. Sometimes even the English version did not make sense, so, I looked at where the words came from in Strong's Concordance. Sometimes, I even looked to the older texts (with help of more learned people) to make sure the Strong's word was right.





(please answer) What is masculinity? What is manliness? What aspect of Jesus was King Ruler, Emperor, God of Men? What are those attributes like? What is the nature of the seated King, the hard iron rod? Aren't those male aspects in your Jesus? Or do you have another kind of fellow in mind? In the Bible, it states that in the Last days, those who remain faithful and true will be given a hard iron rod, and will rule the nations and judge mankind.


What is masculinity? I really haven't considered such things. I think it is only part of what it is to be a whole. "Masculinity" is derived from from only half of who you are. You were created with both an X and a Y chromosome.

The question should be, what is it to be human?


Jesus spoke quite rudely to the pharasees, saying plainly what they were. He didn't mince his words. Men loved Him because he Spoke with Authority, and it was amazing to him. Just like today, where no one at all dares to speak openly about the things are important. Except a few of us.
And none of us will get away unscathed for it.


And he didn't mince words. He saw what he saw, and said what he saw. But he never judged. There is a distinct difference. "Why did I fire the employee?"


A little stiffness in your manhood is good for you, son of Adam. I do not know another kind of man that is worthy to bear a crown of glory on High, than the kind of man who has achieved victory over his enemies. Be it with the word, or the deed, or the power of God, only the victorious will enter into His place.


There is a song by Kenny Rogers called Coward of the County. In that song it says, "sometimes you have to fight when you're a man." And I do agree with this, however, there are many ways to fight. Violence is not the only way.


Pride is indeeed wicked. Pride in the things of the world are wicked indeed. You seem to be afraid to establish anything solid. How do you reconsile this? You say you do not have religion, but you are dragging around the ball and chain of modern religion. Your head is dragging against the ground for your lowliness. Wash it off. Make yourself worthy of authority and Kingdom. It won't come to you unless you show yourself worthy of it.


This is what I have learned. But before you can do these things you must recognize what pride is.

Jesus describes how to live your life as to be seen as worthy in the eyes of God.

One of the things I have learned and likely the most important, is that Love comes through humility. Sin comes through pride.


What were men like Zoroaster and Buddha? What kind of man was John the Baptist? Where did the authority of these men come from? Are you familiar with them? If Jesus is the only judge, and the only man who you seem to think has any authority or power, then why did he say that about the twelve thrones for his desciples? What about the promise for the saints in the book of revs? You will reign on high. Why have you sold yourself short of the kingdom?


I do not know who Zoroaster is so I cannot answer. However, I have found many truths in the teachings of Buddha. When you realize that language is used to describe an event or idea, the teachings of Buddha are not that different that Jesus.

You ask about Thrones and think them to be literal thrones. But I tell you they are symbolic. They symbolize the power of God over all men. There is only one true throne, that which is in heaven.


You seem to not understand the equality to Jesus that Jesus himself offered. You seem to think the path to heaven is by submission. Perhaps at first submission is required, but after that I would expect you to grow strong and wise and give good service to God.


There is a difference between passive and submissive.

Let's see if I can teach this in another way. Tao teaches to be like a tree. Make your feet like roots, your legs like tree trunks, and your arms like branches light enough to be blown in the wind. If you're rooted you cannot be knocked over.

A tree, which can not bend in the wind, will easily break.

A tree is passive. If the tree where submissive, it would always break in the wind.




First of all, heaven isn't a place. You don't get there by travelling. It is a level of awareness and union that takes place in the mind, the spirit. So in order for you to receive it, you need to pursue it like a man hunting. Or a child playing. Either way, you will find it. But you have to GO GET IT. IT WON"T COME TO YOU by wiping the ground with your face.


Heaven is eternal life in the presence of God.

You say you can pursue it like a man hunting or a child playing.
While it is true you can hunt for the truth, the truth is to be found in the words of Jesus.

Mark 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.


But sometimes humility is necessary, sometimes strength is necessary too, sometimes also a sword is called for. When your Lord calls for a sword, will you run away? Don't render yourself so powerless and weak. It is not suitable for men to become like women.


Humility is always necessary, Strength is always necessary. The word of God is always necessary.

I say it is suitable for all men and women to become like Jesus.



I will give you an example. Little children are kept in the spirit and protection of God usually, right? As you know, the nature of small boys is fairly constant and universal because it is the same Father Spirit in them all. If it were useful for boys to be womanish and weak, submissive and passive. Yet, we do not see that. We see the active, iron principal of man. That is what I worship. There is a place for the passive, and the woman, even as there is a place for the moon in the sky. But it is the Sun that rules. Are you familiar with the sun?


Little children are protected by God because they are not yet strong enough to protect themselves. Children are very important. Have you ever wondered why Honor thy mother and father is before thou shalt not kill?
It is because it is through your parents that you first learn of God. If your parents believe in the God, they will teach you this belief, so honor them, trust what they say. And in order to explain to Children that which is God, you must be able to answer the inevitable questions "Why? How? When? Where?" This is the nature of children. They question without judgment seeking only understanding.

You say it is the Sun that rules. I say to you there are many stars in the night sky, each of them suns of their own systems. But there is only one God, It is God that rules all. Are you familiar with God?


The keys are: I know! I see! I declare!

Raise up your head, humble one.

I worship Christ in Glory, and stand with His warrior children. Didn't you know that some of us would be like this? But perhaps that is just the mansion I enter, and the spirit in which I come. Maybe yours is different. There is room for us both.

Yet He still called for the swords to be brought. Here is mine.


I know: learning about the will of God.
I see: knowing in your heart that God exists.
I declare: Telling others what you know and have learned.

None of this requires Pride, I shall never lift my head before God for it to He my head remains always bowed.

.




posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 05:38 PM
link   
Rapahel_UO do you believe that man can become equal to Christ?
I do. I don't see a problem with perfecting yourself just like He did.

You don't seem to have read any books besides the Bible. Perhaps humility is warranted when you have not yet learned the depth and breadth of the matter.

It is not proper that we remain children forever. It is best to retain the nature of children, for that joy and love, and to become kings of wisdom and righteousness. A king is potent, not feminine. He issues forth, he does not hide his face.

If you are "certain and confident" then I beg of you to speak the law. Please begin the work we have been intrusted with by the Father, put down evil, and raise up good, and smite down the devils.

I am suprised you are not more independant minded Raphael, because you seem to have no religious affiliation. But you seem to do nothing but fear and bow to God all day. I hope you progress past this. I began where you are now, but I knew that I would one day have to enter the war.

I am 28. How old are you?

Stop limiting yourself. Be brave, please. Grow past the Bible, the bible is only a very small part of your education.



The second part says if you do not have a sword, then sell your clothes and buy one. So what is this sword that you would have to sell your clothes off your back if you did not already have it? The Sword of spirit. The word of God. (Ephesians 6:17) This is the same throughout his teachings, be humbled to learn his teachings, which are the words of God.


Nonesense. Nonsense! Read the words. Your interpretation is incorrect. Period.

The "spirit" is not purchased with money. Christ spoke as clear as day here. You are not able to understand his statement, so you go off into a wierd tangent.

You have tried to separate Christ from Messiah. Perhaps you have not yet learned what a Messiah is. A Messiah is a God-appointed Warrior King. You have said that Christ is the Messiah, right?



What is masculinity? I really haven't considered such things. I think it is only part of what it is to be a whole. "Masculinity" is derived from from only half of who you are. You were created with both an X and a Y chromosome.


hmm. You are a man, a citizen, and a Christ-follwer, yet you have not considered what it means to have masculinity along with these things? I am not going to let get away that easy. I want an answer here! What do you think masculinity is for a Christ-follower? The two CAN coincide you know, we don't lose our manhood when we seek after Christ, we find it.

I think this is the core of the issue between us. You have not yet become a man, perhaps you are very young still. That is why I need to know your age before I go on with you.

Arkaleus



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 07:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Rapahel_UO do you believe that man can become equal to Christ?
I do. I don't see a problem with perfecting yourself just like He did.


Jesus taught to be like him. Jesus taught humility. There is pride in your words when you say "I can become equal to Christ." regardless of what the truth may be.


You don't seem to have read any books besides the Bible. Perhaps humility is warranted when you have not yet learned the depth and breadth of the matter.


I have read many books which are not the bible. But we are discussing what it is to be Christian. The most important lessons taught by Jesus is Humility and Love.


It is not proper that we remain children forever. It is best to retain the nature of children, for that joy and love, and to become kings of wisdom and righteousness. A king is potent, not feminine. He issues forth, he does not hide his face.


I no longer think like a child. I no longer act like a child. I no longer understand as a child. I am no longer a child.

It seems your goal is to become a king of wisdom and righteousness, mine is to love God. This is my only goal.


I am suprised you are not more independant minded Raphael, because you seem to have no religious affiliation. But you seem to do nothing but fear and bow to God all day. I hope you progress past this. I began where you are now, but I knew that I would one day have to enter the war.


Independance does not mean blindly accepting blindly accepting what others tell you. When you speak of God, your words make no sense to me because I see pride in your words.


I am 28. How old are you?


I am 34.


Stop limiting yourself. Be brave, please. Grow past the Bible, the bible is only a very small part of your education.


My education started with the knowledge that God is. I see this truth in all natural things. I do not believe in God because the bible tells me so. You could be Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Taoist, etc... and these simple lessons of pride and humility would remain true.




The second part says if you do not have a sword, then sell your clothes and buy one. So what is this sword that you would have to sell your clothes off your back if you did not already have it? The Sword of spirit. The word of God. (Ephesians 6:17) This is the same throughout his teachings, be humbled to learn his teachings, which are the words of God.


Nonesense. Nonsense! Read the words. Your interpretation is incorrect. Period.

The "spirit" is not purchased with money. Christ spoke as clear as day here. You are not able to understand his statement, so you go off into a wierd tangent.

You have tried to separate Christ from Messiah. Perhaps you have not yet learned what a Messiah is. A Messiah is a God-appointed Warrior King. You have said that Christ is the Messiah, right?


You are correct you do not purchase the spirit with money. However, after you sell all your clothes including the ones on your back, Spirit and humility are "bought" on the way home, and it is not paid for by the money in your hand.





hmm. You are a man, a citizen, and a Christ-follwer, yet you have not considered what it means to have masculinity along with these things? I am not going to let get away that easy. I want an answer here! What do you think masculinity is for a Christ-follower? The two CAN coincide you know, we don't lose our manhood when we seek after Christ, we find it.


Can you love God more if you are a man?
Does God love you more if you are a man?

Is love not unconditional?


I think this is the core of the issue between us. You have not yet become a man, perhaps you are very young still. That is why I need to know your age before I go on with you.


I have given my age. Now let me ask you a question, do you have children?

.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 10:17 PM
link   
I have never known women. Once I almost fell into one, but I escaped with my virtue intact.

I have no natural children. However, I have many spiritual children and brothers that kinda stick to me in the spirit.

I thought I was talking to a younger person. I apologize for expecting things from you which you are not able to give.

Do you have children? Are you married? Have you known women? You belong to a different aspect of the universe than myself. My perspectives are from the pure male aspect of God, and yours seem to be from the mingled male-femaleness of the rest of the men. My religion is different, and my place in heavens is different.

You are correct, I am seeking kingship in righteousness, and great wisdom. That is my Goal, anyway. It is not pride to say that. It is a worthy thing to ask for. Solomon asked for the same thing, and the request delighted God.

Why is asking for a good thing pride? God invites us, he doesn't smash our heads down. That's the other side.

God would rather have a whole planet full of kingly men and great righteousness. It is better to have free men in equality, than slaves just obeying blindly the powerful and the cruel.

It is apparent that we are on two different paths. Since we are heading towards the same source, we have met and exchanged a few words. Your entire universe is different than mine. My place of rest is different than mine. Yours is for you, and mine is for me, and where you are there are folks like yourself, and where I am there are folks like me. It is a just and proper arrangement.

Take Care,

Ark



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 03:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Arkaleus
I have never known women. Once I almost fell into one, but I escaped with my virtue intact.

I have no natural children. However, I have many spiritual children and brothers that kinda stick to me in the spirit.

I thought I was talking to a younger person. I apologize for expecting things from you which you are not able to give.


I asked about children because it is easier to teach about pride if the one being taught has children.

Pride is very subtile. When you speak and act, you must be wary of pride.


Do you have children? Are you married? Have you known women? You belong to a different aspect of the universe than myself. My perspectives are from the pure male aspect of God, and yours seem to be from the mingled male-femaleness of the rest of the men. My religion is different, and my place in heavens is different.


I have 4 boys. I have learned much about the nature of children from them.


You are correct, I am seeking kingship in righteousness, and great wisdom. That is my Goal, anyway. It is not pride to say that. It is a worthy thing to ask for. Solomon asked for the same thing, and the request delighted God.


The way you phrase this here, it is not a goal of pride.
I hope someday you can understand the difference.


Why is asking for a good thing pride? God invites us, he doesn't smash our heads down. That's the other side.


I ask for only for needs. Just as Jesus taught in the Lord's prayer.


God would rather have a whole planet full of kingly men and great righteousness. It is better to have free men in equality, than slaves just obeying blindly the powerful and the cruel.


God would rather have a whole planet that loved Him. That the planet would be full of "righteousness" is a side effect of that love.


It is apparent that we are on two different paths. Since we are heading towards the same source, we have met and exchanged a few words. Your entire universe is different than mine. My place of rest is different than mine. Yours is for you, and mine is for me, and where you are there are folks like yourself, and where I am there are folks like me. It is a just and proper arrangement.


Your path is yours. My path is mine. I simply wish that if you base your path on the Bible, that you learn of the greatest lesson contained within-- love and humility. You cannot deny this is taught within. Be wary of pride for it is the most subtile of sins, it is through pride that all other sins originate.

.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:01 AM
link   
I have learned something here. There is a different path, and a different way. One is free, unlimited, and without a ruler. I seek that one.

Another is bound, obligated, mingled, and ruled strongly.

Which path is better to reach salvation? I will continue on mine, you continue on yours. At the end, we will see who is where, and what is to be done.

Take care,

Ark



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 02:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by Arkaleus
I have learned something here. There is a different path, and a different way. One is free, unlimited, and without a ruler. I seek that one.


In one breath you say your way has no ruler. In another you say you wish to rule.

Know there is only one God. None can be His equal.

.

[Edited on 26-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 05:05 PM
link   
How did you get that from my statement?

I don't wish to rule anything. I seek to be free from rule. Why do you assume that I wish to rule?

I want nothing to do with people that need rulers, laws or governance. Liberation is my religion. I don't want to interact with others that are not seeking this liberation. I want a nation of equal brothers, along with Christ our Lord and Teacher. We are those who have accepted Christ though wisdom and understanding, and because of the Love of God towards us.

We do not fall on our faces unless we are playing. Or unless we are venerating some wise and profound matter that our Lord has revealed. You see, Our Lord is our elder brother, we are not afraid of Him, and we have a loving relationship with him. It is our joy to learn his peculiar ways, and chase after his mysteries, which he reveals to us for our joy and his.

We do not approach our Lord in shame and fear. We wash ourselves before We meet Him, so that we might join him as equals. It is a different kind of religion I have, huh! But it is not new at all. It is how the first Christians were.

Christ has revealed Himself to us in such a way that frees us from the old bonds of religions, and law, and this is our difference. We are led to Him not by obedience to Laws, or by rites, or by dogmas, but by the light of the spirit, and the agreeance of our will to the Father's. And by the good joy of our child-like natures and separation from the world and those in it.

I hope this helps you understand why I speak like I do, and why it is not empty and mortal pride that I am having, but rather strength in assurity, and confidence in the joy of My Lord.

It's just like comparing the landowners to the servants - do the servants rejoice as the heir? Do they share in the same? When you are ready to join the heirs, and stand by yourself before God, then you have perfected the commandment of Jesus.

It's the same in our own country - Citizens who share in the land and the workings of the government are a little different than the "consumers" who never participate or discuss things as though they had a part in them. The same holds true for those Christians that are saved by grace, and not by attainment of perfection in this life. It is possible to go both ways, but it is better to acquire these things in this life and go to your Lord with something to show. Remember the parable of the three servants and the talents? That was to teach us how the Lord looks at how we act in this life, and how we are rewarded in the next.

If you are afraid and ashamed and consider yourself unworthy all the time, then you never progress in glory. You are the servant that hid the money his Lord gave him because he was afraid to lose it, or to take any authority with it.

The Lord got angry with him, and gave his share to the servants who took their own initiative and made a profit. This lesson is what I took to heart, and I understood what He meant.

Do not fear to error so much. The Lord is graceful and gentle, He does not cause you to stumble if you are really trying to rise above. It is other forces that try that. Those are the same ones to resisted Christ from the beginning.

What error do you see in me? I have learned the law fairly well, I am certain of it. I am intelligent enough to comment upon it and teach others. my understanding was increased by God to do this, that is the assurity I have received that I am doing it correctly.

When I error, I am diminished, blessed be God! How gentle are his corrections and how ready are His councils to the faithful and good.

When I succeed, I am glorified, I am gifted, and exalted according to His justice. Blessed be God! Who is able to give gifts and rewards like He?

My sins are nothing, they are just obstacles and distractions, how patient is God, and how compassionate. He abides with Me until I have corrected my errors, He is a gentle Father.

Is there a better way than this?

Arkaleus



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 09:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Arkaleus
How did you get that from my statement?

I don't wish to rule anything. I seek to be free from rule. Why do you assume that I wish to rule?


Think of all you have told me in these posts.

You are correct, I am seeking kingship in righteousness, and great wisdom. That is my Goal, anyway.

By itself does not say "I wish to rule." But in context of all your posts it is clear you wish "to rule over" those who are not righteous-- to show the the power of your arm and not the power of your words. One creates fear the other creates understanding.

If your goal is to be like God, then this is a goal of pride. Jesus did not teach pride, he taught humility. It is only through humility that one can be like Jesus.

I do not fear God. I love God. This is my only goal.

I do not consider myself unworthy, because it is not my place to judge such worthiness.

You say you have learned the law fairly well. I say there is only one "law" that matters.

Mark 12:28-31
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


.





new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join