Originally posted by Arkaleus
One of the foremost problems in modern American Christianity is the persistent opposition against any concept of perfecting human beings on the
It is the greatest insult to Christ, to say that none of the men on the earth are able to follow him. Who then, are the firstfuits of Christ? Who
then, are those who he redeemed? You are arguing from the scripture, and that is why things don't make any sense.
Raphael_UO, I have no argument with you or your faith. But everyone wants to be lambs, everyone wants to be saved, but no one wants to do any work.
If we are wronged, who do we go to see for redress? Do you want that person to be like you, afraid of using the sword of justice, unable to judge or
condemn? That kind of judge I would not have.
It is possible to have perfect will, perfect intention, agreeance with the will of God. It is insulting and offensive to say to me, you cannot do it.
Ha! Watch me.
All men are able to follow Christ. All one has to do is love. Love is the teaching of Jesus. Unconditional love comes only through humility, as love
is never proud. It is not an "easy" thing to do.
No man is perfect. I am most certainly not perfect. I do the best I can. God knows man is not perfect, he offers forgiveness. I shape my actions,
thoughts, and words to live my life the best I can and remain true to what I believe.
I suppose it depends on what you define as "work". I see leading this life as something that is not "easy". As Yoda would say the dark side is
faster, easier but not better.
It is easier to pass judgment than to lead a humble life. The "harder" of the two paths does require "work"
Hmm. I don't see the connection between not excersising the faculty of reason and judgment and the crimes of humanity. I don't follow you
Quite simply, crimes against humanity are also sins against God. They are not the will of God. Love God, Love your fellow man (which is loving God
because it is his will) is the simplest way I can express God's will.
Pride is the basis for all sins. It requires pride to pass judgment.
Stealing requires several steps:
1. Recognizing the lack of something "I don't have money".
2. Recognizing other people have that something "A bank has money".
3. Passing judgment "I need that money more than the bank".
4. Acting on that judgment. Robbing the bank.
Crimes require that "step" in which a judgment is made. Sometimes that step is not voiced. Sometimes it is voiced differently. But it is there.
I have to say Raphael_UO, we need to understand what we mean by "Judgement". I think it is in what I expect from men that we differ in. I
expect men to be manly, and execute their will. Christ commanded men to be perfect, so that the execution of their will was in accordance with the
Good Will of God.
Lets go back to that employee that was not doing his job.
Recognizing the lack of something: my house is not clean.
Acting on this revelation: I hire someone to clean my house.
Recognizing the lack of something: my house is still not clean.
Recognizing the cause: my employee is not doing what he is being paid to do.
Acting on this revelation: Counsel the employee on how to do his Job.
Recognizing the lack of something: my house is still not clean.
Recognizing the cause: my employee is still not doing what he is being paid to do.
Acting on this revelation: End the current employment of the employee, and find another employee.
Why did I fire the employee?
a. Because the employee was not doing the job he/she was hired to do.
b. Because he/she was a bad employee.
One of these answers require the judgment of which I am speaking.
The other answer is needed to make the judgment of which I am speaking.
What exactly is in the authority of man? What can men "do" and think? Isn't it funny that you place all these restrctions and guidelines
on the thoughts and behaviors of man? And then you justify them with old quotes.
Please describe the perfect man to me. Please describe the perfect government. Can you do this? If you respond to me, I want you to describe those
things to me.
For me to answer these questions I would have to pass judgment.
If you are asking me "How would I describe a man who does not sin?" I would direct you to read the stories in the bible about Jesus.
If you are asking me "How do you describe a government created by men who live their lives according to Jesus' teachings?", I have never considered
this question. It would not be a "Christian state", as that would promote religious intolerance. It would not be a "Religious state", as that
would promote intolerance of people who did not believe. As I sit here considering this question, I wonder if the people who drafted the Constitution
of the US debated this very thing. As I wondered this I remembered some old quotes that I looked up to share.
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but
on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of
us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
And after consideration, I could not think to do anything differently then they. Except I would perhaps make clear to later generations that they have
their freedoms because
of the belief in God, and I would perhaps explain why this is so.
Edit: this is not to say that everything they believed and wrote down would be included. As there are some worldly things they included which no
longer apply in this day and age.
Don't limit mankind. Don't put rules and laws on him. Don't limit yourselves!
Oddly enough this is what I am saying too. Love God is the only rule or law. Actions taken by man can limit his ability to love God. Don't limit
yourself. Don't limit those you teach.
What reasons do you give for your laws? I'm not of the opinion that man needs meany laws, what he needs is a judge. We have many many laws
because we don't have any judgment, no one to execute the hard task of destroying evil.
I give only one law. Love God. Love all men(which is also loving God for it is also his will) What reason? It is the will of God.
Man only needs
one judge. God.
Evil is a reflection of sin. Sins are actions which are not the will of God. The will of God is to Love God. Removing evil from this world starts
within one's self. When one understands one can teach others to do the same.
So then, servants of the house, which we all are, are you taking care of the business of the house, or are you letting the wolves run the show?
Isn't it better to remove evil, and to rest? Become perfect in your intentions, and make your will perfect. At least towards mankind and his
This isn't biblical, but I have found truth in the words: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
The scriptures teach us not to accuse and judge one another's actions lightly. But it has been blown out of proprotion to the degree that we
are discouraged from judging ANYTHING at all. You did not address that from my first post. Please address this
As you said, we must first understand what we mean when we say "judgment", I illustrated the difference to me in the example concerning an employee.
If you understand the distinction I am making, you will understand what I mean when I say "judgment is for god alone"
If you do not understand, I will answer questions to help you understand the distinction. Don't misunderstand me, I do understand what you are
How are we to handle evil? It is not healthy to shrink away in silence and to hold one's peace when injustice or evil is done. That is not
godliness, it is not courage. Christ will not reward you for this, neither will I.
Recognizing something is evil, and then acting on that recognition is not the same as judging something evil.
I expect men to stand up for the oppressed, protect the meek, and drive back the filthy people that try to occupy and settle in the land. You
do not feed the pigs with the food of your children, nor do you allow the wolves to lie with your chickens.
I expect men to learn and understand when they are taught about God's love, and then teach others. Some people do not understand. I share my own
understanding so they learn. You do not allow your children to eat the food of pigs. You would not allow your chickens to seek out the wolf's den to
That is why I have a problem with scriputre quoters. They aren't answering questions or debates with the quotes of other people. That's not
thinking. That's not applying your own authority. That's not using the gift of God's intellect in your activities. That's what I expect from
Do you think question "What does god want me to do?" is not answered in the Bible? One does not learn something without understanding. One does not
understand until they think. Answering a question by quoting a scripture requires you
to think to receive the answer. When you think you can
understand. When you understand you will learn.
My last post I quoted scripture twice. The first was to back my words when I said, "while Jesus is able to judge, he did not. when he returns he
will." as to refute what you were saying. The second was to make you think. Jesus taught about the same judgment as I do. Following that quote I
asked a question to direct your understanding.
We are not going to be a world of babies and sheep ruled by a great God. That is fantasy. We will be full men, and brave lads, and our place
is a place of kings and priests. Those who are weak against evil, those who are not VALIENT in the work of godliness will not enter.
So where is your rod? Where is your sword? Where are the signs that show me you are a true warrior in the name of Christ? Real Christians are
intelligent folks, they know what is
Is this what you think it means to be a Christian?
My words are my sword. My understanding is my shield.
Sun Tzu's the Art of War states: To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the
enemy's resistance without fighting.
With my words, I teach my understanding. If a person sees wisdom in my words then they may seek to live their life following the will of God. They
will then teach their children. Their children will teach their children. If a person sees wisdom in the words of one of those children, the process
You say it is a fantasy that all the world would love God. I say to you, over half the world already believes in the God of Abraham (Christians, Jews,
[Edited on 21-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]