To reply effectively will make this very long.. apologies up front....
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Tayesin
Firstly, if you were reading this site 10 years ago, then you were here before I was congratulations. That is absolutely irrelevant. I have no idea
whatsoever how that relates to this debate. Because you think you have better insight because (you believe) that you were here earlier than me, just
shows that you rely on superficial means to get your message across.
Mate, you were abusing people like a Newbie, I pointed that out to you and you replied by saying you were not a Newbie because you had been reading
the site since 2001.. so I responded to you.
Never did I say I Believe ANYTHING like what you now claim.
Do you want to know why I call people out on bad information? Because this site and thousands of others are perpetuating bogus claims. They are
not even looking for logical theories anymore, just ones that gain followings. And trust me, I can see the sycophantic, cult like dogma forming. Maybe
it is the state of the world right now, but it dilutes all GOOD information that is really out there for us to find. The more crap info, the more crap
you have to wade through.
I don't even understand this train of thought you are having = irrelevant.
Bad information according to? Most of what you have said in this thread is only Your Opinion with little to back it up other than more of the same
opinion. You won't know for sure if you are Right until early 2013.
What is "Irrelevent", and according to? You? Your Beliefs? Your Opinion?
You have claimed the entire 2012 scenario is wrong, so you need to offer some sort of proofs for that assertion.
You responded with a "make-wrong", an impossible reasoning that has nothing to do with you being the OP making claims and not supplying anything to
back up those claims.. which is what people are supposed to do here at ATS....
Jesus Christ is the son of god and he flew up to heaven (his corporeal form) after being hung on the cross. And Moses parted the Red Sea and
Noah built an ark with 2 of every animal.
Prove to me that is not wrong.
What I see, and have been observing for a lot of years is the steady increase in earthquakes and other natural disasters as we pass
each decade. Now I know some people can pull out charts to show this is wrong, and others can pull out charts to show that it is correct.. we've seen
them all here.
and you replied with a challenge.. cleverly worded it is too
So since you have made a conclusion on that "information", please post your charts and explain why you think they are more valid than the
others that contradict your theory. (Remember, I don't make any extraordinary claims about 2012, you do)
Firstly, I haven't put forward ANY Theory, merely shared my Personal observations over the past 20 or so years.. so please don't try to make me fit
into your little boxes of belief.
What Extra-ordinary Claims have I made for 2012? I don't see any I made in this thread.
The only claims I have made is that the idea has been portrayed, like many others, as a scenario that will sell books, DVD's and other things.
I have also shown how people use doomsday scenarios to manipulate people. My proof lies in human weakness and the people who exploit it. I have
offered proof to my theory that 2012 is bunk. Now show me yours.
And I did not disagree with you. I am fully aware of the shams in this world and their desired Lifestyles, but you must understand this is NOT Proof
that "2012 is BUNK".
It IS proof only that like all things humans do, it revolves mostly around unbalanced ego and greed.
I've observed the growing madness in humanity as it also builds up.. and was building up well before anyone began to speak about
There was no similar madness during the Spanish Inquisition? There was none during WWI and WWII?
Did I say that? No I didn't. Please stop trying to force your view into my words. What I commented on was the growing madness.. I did not say when it
began only that it was before anyone talked of 2012. The madness you refer to is the same madness I refer to, only I refer to it in this modern
context as something I have observed growing.
I've observed the Spiritual Growth that is happening, although with far too few people at the moment. I've digested information
from a variety of ancient and modern sources that shows major change is happening now
You have only been alive for one generation, you do not know the "spiritual attitudes" of the past 5,000 years. Not everything
makes it into the history books.
What do you know of Me? Nothing.
You do not know that I was born a freak.. from a very early age being able to tell people what was going to happen to them, able to see what others
could not, able to recall details of previous lifetimes with ease, able to experience and understand a bigger picture reality that unfortunately so
few can even imagine yet.. and you make a CLAIM about ME without knowing the first thing about me?
History books are written by the Victors, so we can never trust them to be an Honest retelling of much at all.
What this leads me to is an understanding much like the Hopi people's that the Earth has its own massive cycles and every so often
some planetary alignments indicate where we are in that cycle.. as happened in 1998 according to the Hopi.
You responded with in such a way as to illustrate the problematic small thinking of Humanity, the very Limitations that keep us so Un-Aware.....
Jack climbed up a beanstalk and killed the giant.
So to you, Native American racial memories are simply Jibber-Jabber, akin to children's stories? Is this lack of understanding really your true
Oh dear.. I said..
What is happening... all things at the same time. Spiritual Growth is happening, Earth's natural disasters on the rise is
happening, the madness in humans is growing,
You replied with a smarmy retort based solely on small-mindedness, as per the standard fare for those who think they are superior....
This proof is in your head, otherwise you would have data to support this "belief".
So we see you are classing me as unworthy, likely crazy, just another nutter in the crowd, Yes?
I have No Beliefs, for all Beliefs are Limitations to what you can experience of bigger picture reality.
at the purposeful use of the word "Data"... you know anything non-mundane, not meat and 3 vegies type of thinking as I call it.. the physical
world of small-mindedness.. does not yet have the ability to provide Data on anything it cannot observe or sense mechanically.. so that must mean
everyone who Lives a Spiritual existence of direct experience is a nutter.. doesn't it?
It couldn't possibly mean that we humans really know very little yet with our fledgling Sciences because they have not evolved sufficiently to
sense/detect/measure anything of a spiritual nature.
If major earth changes do not occur over the next 2 years, then humanity is in for one horrific downhill ride into something akin to
Hell.. with no survivors.
Based on your emotional feelings on the matter? It doesn't take a genius to figure out the world has issues. However, you cannot credit a
change in public policy or the public in general as "spiritual enlightenment" it is cause and effect. If people make a free will choice to change
the world they live in, it is their choice. And it surprises me not in the least that religious people would usurp peoples' free will
Emotional Feelings? Did I say I was having them? Pretty sure I was sharing my own personal observations again. Observations from a life of only 50
years so far this time... can you not extrapolate the direction of humanity and see fairly clearly the Probable Outcomes?
Yes, the world has issues that we do not have answers for, that we created willingly, that we do not really care about.. and the proof being that if
we cared about these very serious issues we as a whole would make necessary changes immediately.. but we do not.. we go on like we know better and do
not give one momentary thought to our great-great grand children's future... or even if they will have one after we posion everything we have touched
for long enough to make it un-inhabitable.
I didn't claim change in public policy was "Spiritual Enlightenment".. in fact I never used those words in my replies to you.. so they must be Your
Perspective again.. only with a negative slant on them.
I do see a long term build-up leading to some sort of Climactic period that will have major effects on how humans live on this
You then said...
These changes could happen in 2025, would you still credit 2012 for them?
Silly question, but, Yes it could happen in another time. Although, I personally doubt it.
And I doubt it due to what I have "Seen".. and you will love to hate this next bit
.. I've been seeing Possibility and Probability since I
was very young. Never, ever, has it failed me.. not saying it is ME.. saying instead the Information is always Solid. Because of this I must accept
the possibility and then point out to others who are drowning in the Doom and Gloom mentality what the Positives are for us.
If the information is wrong then I can live with that... it will not worry me that anyone thinks I was wrong. It will worry me if another ten years
passes and humanity has not made the necessary changes to insure some sort of long term future for us so that we don't join all the other Animal
Species dying off.
I said something that was partially quoted..
So there is not an either OR scenario being played out..
Exactly, it's a blind faith, new wave religion, rife with all the dogma of all the others.
I've come to the conclusion that there are three type of 2012 believers, 1. Nibiru and the Annunaki, 2. Doomsday and 3. New wave spiritual quest.
Basically you are telling me you are of the third. While that is fine and dandy, the third group should move their discussion towards religion, it is
a forum I dare not enter because I simple don't like unsupported "facts".
I was talking about the two opposing camps in the "something will happen in 2012" groups.. because even though they agree something will happen,
they fight over what it will be.. one side saying Only Spiritual Enlightenment and Ascension (New Agers and some Religionists) and the other saying
Only earht changes (doom and gloomers).. neither seeing that it is all things at the same time.
Nice job of sticking groups into small Pidgeon Holes
I have told you no such a thing. You have filled in the blanks with your own Beliefs and perceptions, and then made claim that this is the Pidgeon
Hole I belong in... that this is Me. And you did this because I simply Opposed Your Perception... that is all.. it's not a Crime.
Is it up to you to decide what each group should do with their discussions? No, I didn't think so. But since I know it is only Your Personal Opinion
then I can forgive you for that slight.
And you continued..
As far as the other two, there is no evidence supporting either of them. I tried to give the spirituality side of this a fair go but it is
obvious it is a religious quest, that's not my deal. Good luck with your spirit.
*note: Since this is a religion, or quasi religion, I will try and phase myself out of the 2012 threads that deal with it as such. Everyone is
entitled to their own spiritual beliefs. I misunderstood because people were portraying it as though it were fact. I understand now it is just a
Yep, no evidence from science in it's infancy yet huh. Oh well, better then to make general remarks to slight things one knows nothing about from
You say you tried the Spirituality side of things... well it is obvious that you did not get far with it.. maybe Religion wasn't the right path to
experiment with for you? Maybe you had the wrong Teachers? Maybe the Indoctrination you recieved form birth was far too strong for you to break free
from the Cultural Mold. Maybe your clear mind and wit was too strong for you to overcome it's Superiority and Control like many other people?
This isn't Religion.. and what you have said in this entire thread is Only what You Believe anyway. No different to anyone else sharing their
personal perceptions and Beliefs is it?
Phew.. made it through.. although I am so bored now you would not believe me if I expressed the deepest levels of it in a way you could understand.
Next time you start a thread, just remember how things work here.. You Make a claim, then as the writer of the Opening Post the onus is on you to
support your view with data... not the other way around.
Sorry again for the length of this reply. Be well.