The 2012 Phenomenon (and why it is so VERY dangerous to perpetuate this nonsense...)

December 31st, 1999.

23:59.

As far as I was concerned, I was about to experience the coolest thing that I could ever experience in my life.

I was eleven years old and the world all around me was about to go crazy.

Televisions would explode (probably), electrical appliances would go haywire, planes would fall from the sky, missiles would be launched, the internet would implode and economies would collapse (not that I cared much for economies at the time).

At least, that's what was supposed to happen. What actually happened was far less exciting. For when the clock struck 00:00 the only things that went haywire (and eventually collapsed) were my drunken relatives.

In the end the governments of the world spent a tidy $308 BILLION on the Y2K “problem”. I say “problem” because there are many who think that the whole Y2K issue was a big fat hoax...

Others have claimed that there were no, or very few, critical problems to begin with, and that correcting the few minor mistakes as they occurred (the 'fix on failure' approach) would have been the most efficient and cost effective way to solve the problem. Editorial writing in the Wall Street Journal called Y2K an "end-of-the-world cult" and the "hoax of the century".

Wikipedia

And what a lot of people don't know is that we are going to have to face this terrible ordeal all over again thanks to the Year 2038 problem.

May god have mercy on us all :shk:

But yes, my point here is that a lot of people got really quite worried about the Y2K problem. Which brings me to my main point....2012.

I must first state that I think the whole 2012 phenomenon is a load of rubbish. I've researched both sides of the argument and I am 100% happy with my belief.

But I am an adult who is able to understand both sides of the argument and understand the evidence put forth by both. Which leaves me wondering; what would the eleven year old me think of it all? I suppose it's impossible to say. Although I think it wouldn't effect me much.

But everyone is different, and while my overall opinion on the issue (that is, in fact, a non-issue) hasn't changed, something has recently changed. For I used to believe it was harmless nonsense. "Okay, believe it if you must, I really couldn't care less."

But something has been brought to my attention recently that I think EVERYONE on this site, particularly believers, should be aware of. It is the following...

One of us regularly visits local school classrooms, giving an astronomy talk and Q&A session, and has been doing this for 5th and 8th grade classrooms for about three years. Beginning in 2008, a shift in the nature of the questions was noticed over the year before. Instead of the classic "What would happen if you fell into a black hole?" the questions are pointing more towards "What's really going to happen in 2012?" and "Somebody told me a planet is going to hit us in 2012". When the students were asked where they had heard this information, the top two sources named were Yahoo! Answers and YouTube.

In May 2009, a teacher left a comment on Astrogeek's blog, commenting on his 2012 hoax article.

…[I] am a teacher and my 3rd graders are hearing about this - A small child is talking about how if its ending, and why she shouldn't just end it now. This isn't anywhere close to funny any more.

On the comments page of this site, a mother of a 7 year old said:

I have a 7 year old that happened to see a documentary on the history channel that scared him so bad, that he became depressed and began to question the meaning of life. He is 7 years old. This nonsense is scaring our children - it must stop immediately. I found this website and tried the best I can to explain to him it was all a hoax.

In order to make some money, several 'authors', 'scientists', video producers, and, in select cases, even the History Channel have churned up an international hoax, which is scaring young people, children, to the point where they are talking about suicide, or questioning the meaning of life.

2012 Hoax

After reading that, I was furious with all of the money making charlatans who are peddling this ridiculous notion of a 2012 apocalypse, and you should be too!

A friend of mine once said that "you have to be an idiot to believe in that stuff", but I don't necessarily agree with that. After all, did you know that Sir Isaac Newton set his own "end times" date? Yep, he believed that the world would end no earlier than 2060, but did believe it was eventually going to happen. Of course, being the clever chap he was he didn't set a date in stone, as he had seen many before him be discredited by getting it wrong. "This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail."

Newtons predictions were based upon his rigid belief in the Bible, so whilst not being an idiot, he certainly was deluded. And in the same way, children are not idiots, but they are easily deluded and confused by such outlandish and potentially harming theories. And when parents (who probably have little to no experience on this topic) can't give their children a quick, concise answer it is even more damaging. Of course, it is not their fault.

But it is the fault of every single person who continues to perpetuate blatant lies and disinformation. It is bad enough that because of sensationalised media reports we have young people commiting suicide because they were told the world would end as a result of a physics experiment.

So the next time you think about creating a new thread on this topic, perhaps think again. Think about who might be reading it and the effect it could have on them. Especially in light of all the recent "LOOK...NIBIRU!!!!!" threads.

I personally can't wait for 2013 to roll around so we can have done with this forum all together.

This one is not natural of a means, its designed planned out to perform a dark event, bought and paid for by NWO, It is another 9/11 tatic of terror.

reply to post by LiveForever8


Yeah I agree totally with that analysis, beleif is a dangerous thing. The real danger is that because of all the speculation and misinformation, somebody might actually try to end the world in 2012 just to fulfil the prophecy!

Dangerous stuff!

reply to post by LiveForever8


While I agree with you, I do take some exception to your thinking. I am still on the fence regarding the whole 2012 premise. My take on it is, if it happens it happens, and there is not a whole lot we can do about it. We should approach everything we read, and I do mean EVERYTHING from the serious science article to the rantings of otherwise not so trustworthy sources, with a grain of salt. I agree that the media sensationalizes everything, and should be brought to task for doing so. I too had a similar experience with my then 13 year old daughter, where she had heard some of the various theories on the 2012 matter, and was feeling quite anxious about it. But, rather than sweep everything under the rug, which seems to be what you are suggesting, I take a different approach. I used that opening to engage in serious discourse with her about the subject. Teaching her not to beleive everything she reads, as much of it can be just plain wrong. I taught her to question it, and if she has questions, to come and talk to me. I think half the problem with what you are describing is that parents are not engaging their children enough. You can't just sweep everything under the rug, asking everyone to stop searching for answers because it might be affecting somebody else. Instead, encourage the quest for knowledge on all levels, but instill in our youth (or in some cases, or adults) the tools and abilities to be able to question what they hear, and not beleive everything they read. That's my two cents on it.

So the next time you think about creating a new thread on this topic, perhaps think again. Think about who might be reading it and the effect it could have on them. Especially in light of all the recent "LOOK...NIBIRU!!!!!" threads.

reply to post by LiveForever8


Yes officer Thought Police.

We wouldn´t want to destroy innocent souls that come to this site and might come across a 2012 thread.

Why not scrap all the forums here on ATS, someone might get offended, can´t have that now, can we?

Even better, take down the entire internet, what? Lock yourself in your house, don´t talk to anyone, they might say something that will make you kill yourself.

If you have such a problem with the whole 2012 thing, the last thing you should be doing, is posting in the 2012 forum.

Stay clear off it. You do realize this forum is here to openly discuss 2012?

The problem lies with you, the solution is very simple.

Don´t let the door hit you...

There are tons of dangers out there, Earth is not a "safe zone." Lotta crazy people here, and to say 2012 stuff is dangerous because parents aren't watching what their kids are doing online and with the TV.... well, how can you blame 2012 for that?
2012, planet X, Nibiru, ascension.... not the same things at the same time, people seem to lump it all in one, that's just laziness.

Interesting thing about 2012 that does deserve a bit of research.

Venus looping through orion was a sign to the Egyptians of a catastrophe and apparently this happened roughly 11,000 years ago and is due to happen again in 2012. I dont know how true it is but something worth having a look at.

i think the two cannot be compared - y2k was a man made event - I for one was an IT engineer at that time - and boy did we have a lot of work on! Whereas 2012 is supposedly (depending on which particular ending you subscribe to) a phenomenon from space or naturally occuring at the very least.

I am still on the fence on this one...i think the exact date cannot be predicted...but you cannot ignore the signs from history...

Yeah God forbid if school children should learn about Corexit in the GOM, or perhaps the tyranny of other Nations, children being tortured and worse in the far reaches of our own neighborhoods. The point is life is coming to a crescendo of evil and anyone that cannot see the signs is likely living in a bubble.

Y2K probably was an unfounded fear, but it would not have blown up your television or your Mp3 player, that is a little silly; besides we could use a little less technology in the hands of the kiddies! We can only blame the parents for utilizing too many "nanny tools". Computers in the classroom should be monitored and should be placed on an Intranet specification and not the Internet!

What about the more Natural Occurrences in the Universe/World? Should we not tell kids that Elenin is on its way here now and that Phobos is right at our doorstep?

Children suicides because of 2012, is this even true? Are parents just letting their kids absorb something other than the vile "make-believe" violence and fear that is induced by our Entertainment Industry? I think it is time to just say, "I don't believe" and quit trying to convince the masses that something is not happening.

Sorry, this thread was a rant and a personal one at best, I do not see anything valid to convince me otherwise other than something I already knew, that the parents are idiots for letting their children raise themselves on "Nanny Net" because they feel someone will be responsible somewhere and they don't have to contend with their darn brats!

Originally posted by LiveForever8

I personally can't wait for 2013 to roll around so we can have done with this forum all together.

Yet from 2000 on its been a down spiral-us pres. was questioned as far as was it a legit VOTE??? 9/11/01, multi wars after, Katrina, BAM quake Iran-Indonesia tsunami-recession-Gulf of Mexico spill as its called. If you check it out things began to un wind from then.........

I remember December 31st, 1999 as well. I was a sophomore in high school and I was at a friend's house. His mother was at a party, so we were doing a little partying ourselves. I remember being very nervous about what would happen at the stroke of midnight, and low and behold, nothing happened. No market crash, no WMD's launching simultaneously, no planes falling out of the sky, etc. Was I relieved? Sure. Was I disappointed that there was no "world ending" event? Eh. Yes and no. It was a wild ride that year though. I remember taking out a small fortune in floppy disks to back all of my writing up. Back in that day I wrote a lot of poetry and short stories.

2012.

Well, I too have read both sides of the debate, and I still remained unconvinced either way. I can tell you without doubt that it has certainly helped me put on my critical thinking cap and really look back into ancient history, science, mathematics etc. Without this whole 2012 hype, I might not have taken an interest in ancient civilizations, and now I read every book I can on them. This of course, has spawned a bunch of new questions, but those questions are for a different thread.

As a teacher, I have realized that children are far more perceptive than we give them credit for. The children of this era have been brought up with computers, television, the internet and other such luxuries from the moment of birth. I didn't get my first internet connection and modern computer until 1996, and I see three-year-olds doing things on the computer at their age, that took me months, if not years, to figure out. These are the good things about kids growing up in the "digital age." Conversely, they also have the full extent of the internet to read about all the crack-pot theories on 2012---Everything from alien invasion to a giant planet hitting the Earth and killing us all. At such a young age, many, if not most children don't have the mental capacities to distinguish fact from fiction. While there is no evidence to suggest that any of this stuff will happen come next year, the ancients seemed to talk a lot about visitors from the stars and an illusive "extra planet." Of course, children cannot properly compute that in their underdeveloped brains, and what is the most basic instinct for any organism that does not understand something? Fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of death. Fear of pain and suffering. It's the basic driving force in nature. We fear something because we have a biological urge for self-preservation.

While the science on this topic is sketchy at best, by actually talking to children about the different theories, both scientific and pseudo-scientific, we can teach them to distinguish fact from fiction. There is nothing to say that a giant planet won't hurtle at us at blinding speed within the next year. There's nothing to say that aliens won't invade. However, if you give children the proper tools to "figure things out" they may actually surprise you.

I agree that the unwarranted fear-mongering not only on this site, but others, and in the media has done a great disservice to the youth of our world. When kids begin questioning their own worth as a human being, perhaps people need to take a step back and start getting facts straight.

Hell, if the believers in this theory are correct, don't we owe it to our children to make sure they are as informed as they can possibly be? In a little under two year's time, we'll find out one way or another.

On a side note, is it really that bad that some children are starting to question the meaning of life? Some adults don't even want to touch on the subject, and now, because of some wack-job theory, children are starting to think philosophically at a young age. If given the proper guidance through their intellectual quandaries, parents might be able to turn a very negative thing into a positive. Proper guidance is needed though, to avoid such situations as you have linked above.

I agree with your post in the fact that the fear-mongering is dangerous and has unseen consequences, but why not take this negative thing and make it a positive? I truly see this as an age where children are starting to have the ability to make complex decisions and handle a little more "adult" material. I see it every day in the various classrooms I work in. I certainly wouldn't want "Crazy Uncle Larry" giving my theoretical four-year-old a loaded pistol without any knowledge of how the gun works, or what it has the ability to do. This is what many of the more wacky 2012 theorists are doing. Now, as a "parent" I would do my best to show my child how the gun works, why we respect it, what it is used for, and what it is not used for. Heck, I would even let them shoot it in a controlled environment (using my own two hands to hold the gun of course).

There are valuable lessons to be learned in this whole debacle, and while I don't necessarily agree with teaching a four-year-old (or any child under the age of fourteen) philosophy pertaining to the meaning of life, if it's out there, and they already know about it, we have to do the best job we can as mentors, teachers, parents, and the like, to teach them how to critically think to the best of their abilities. It's only going to get worse as the time to "endgame" gets closer. Give them the tools, and they will be able to use them.


Thanks for posting. This is a very important topic that I hope many people will take the time to read and really think about.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by LiveForever8


Y2k is a good example of what happens when a few people misunderstand something, act in an alarmist fashion, and the media drives the myth into the mainstream.

y2k was a potential problem is some older computer operating systems that, for whatever reason, were not programmed to deal with the 1999/2000 date rollover. This is the extent of the danger. Worst case scenario, some banking systems would go down for a few minutes. that's it. All necessary infrastructure was updated well in advance, and even if they weren't, to the average human it would have been no big deal at all.

People misunderstood this to mean power plants would explode, bank machines would eat your money, and random garbage like that.

2012 is very similar except there is no actual event like with y2k. 2012 is a myth perpetrated by people with questionable knowledge of the Mayan civilization. Current academics will point out that the current 2012 hoopla has nothing to do with ancient Maya, no prophecy was made about the end of the world. This is a gross misrepresentation of the facts anyone can learn about from a simple google search (why isn't google an accepted dictionary term yet?).

Facts aside, when enough people spread the same information, be it valid or made up, some people will believe it. The more sources you have sending you information the more easily believable it becomes. For people like me it's quite easy not to fall for it as I think about things critically, ask questions, and actually research.

It's dangerous to keep these myths alive as some people honestly believe them.

The other potential side to that coin is a control mechanism. Fear is a control mechanism. Why do you think they spent so many hours replaying the 911 footage over the years? Fear! 2012 is the end, OMFG run for the hills.

As long as you believe 2012 is the end, and you are fearful of it, you'll be ignoring what's happening around you in the world, bank bailouts, higher taxes, end of social services, global meltdown, global revolution...

Who cares, it's almost 2012.

Year 2000 a man made computer glitch that could never effect more than computers
2012 Prophecies Predicted and prophesied by almost all ancient cultures as a significant time in human history, if you think there's any comparison at all then you really are stupid.
If you dont think all the warning that have been left for us are worth listening to then that's even more stupid. We are already well into this change quakes and volcanoes kicking off left right and centre serious civil unrest and the great awakening, banking sector wall street on the verge of a collapse only a fool could compare this to Y2K. More importantly you should make preparations because when the SHTF it will happen in days or weeks and everything will collapse at once.
I recon in this order
1. Civil unrest will spread out with north africa and middle east to europe usa china (already starting)
2. Oil will surge to $200 a barrel
3. Banking sector will implode as well as derivatives market and housing bubble
4. Civil unrest will turn to chaos when everyone loses there money
5. Food will vanish in less than a week.
6. More and more nature disasters will happen throughout
7. The sun will ramp up on its cycle causing electrical systems to short leaving huge parts of the world without power, water sanitation
8. Life as we no it will cease to exist but still continue in safe zones.
9. The coastlines and lowlands will perish as the oceans swell
10. Anyone near a volcano or fault line will perish
11. Those of us in the hills with food and water will sit back and ride the storm out
12. The new beginning minus 5-6 billion people

reply to post by spolvil

i think the two cannot be compared - y2k was a man made event. Whereas 2012 is supposedly (depending on which particular ending you subscribe to) a phenomenon from space or naturally occuring at the very least.

From all of the information that is available as of right now, can you honestly say that you have any solid proof of 2012 being anything other than a man-made event?

As far as I have seen, it has only been words that "prove" anything about 2012. It is all pure speculation.

I agree with the OP, but the sad reality of it is that this will continue. It will continue throughout 2012, and will most likely gradually get worse and worse. Then before New Years Day 2013, there will already be something else on the horizon. I am sure it will be much sooner than 2038 too. There will most likely be a few in between.


reply to post by Silencer 2012

Originally posted by Silencer 2012
Year 2000 a man made computer glitch that could never effect more than computers
2012 Prophecies Predicted and prophesied by almost all ancient cultures as a significant time in human history, if you think there's any comparison at all then you really are stupid.

There is no need for name calling. I have a quick question.

All of this evidence from the ancient cultures that you are using to state this specific date, who told you? Was it the ancient beings that told you? Or was it modern man?

As parent of two boys ages 12 and 16 the subject of 2012 comes up pretty often in my house. We watch documentaries and read the news then we DISCUSS whats going on in the world. Its making them aware of ideas and opening their eyes to possibility's and scenarios and talking about these things makes them mentally prepared in case TSHTF and that's the best thing anyone can do for their kids make them mentally prepared for anything. We all have a game plan for just about any situation and its usually amusing listening to them on what they would do when the zombies arrive or after a nuclear attack or a huge earth quake. They have their game plans all mapped out. Neither of them want to die/commit suicide or wonder what they will do when the power goes out. The interesting thing is that the boys also have plans of things they want to accomplish before December of next year "just in case" The youngest one wants to finish reading all the Harry Potter books and beat a video game called Grand Tirismo and the older boy... well he wants to lose his virginity

Originally posted by lostsock
As parent of two boys ages 12 and 16 the subject of 2012 comes up pretty often in my house. We watch documentaries and read the news then we DISCUSS whats going on in the world. Its making them aware of ideas and opening their eyes to possibility's and scenarios and talking about these things makes them mentally prepared in case TSHTF and that's the best thing anyone can do for their kids make them mentally prepared for anything. We all have a game plan for just about any situation and its usually amusing listening to them on what they would do when the zombies arrive or after a nuclear attack or a huge earth quake. They have their game plans all mapped out. Neither of them want to die/commit suicide or wonder what they will do when the power goes out. The interesting thing is that the boys also have plans of things they want to accomplish before December of next year "just in case" The youngest one wants to finish reading all the Harry Potter books and beat a video game called Grand Tirismo and the older boy... well he wants to lose his virginity

This.

See, you are a progressive parent who takes an active role in their children's lives. I hate to use the term "progressive" but in a day and age where the television or the computer is a baby-sitter pseudo-parent, I love the fact that you openly discuss this topic with your kids. Intelligent conversation (age appropriate, of course) is the only thing that we can do until that day comes next year. If the day goes by and nothing happens, great! If something does happen, however, you will have at least discussed this topic with your boys.


Kudos to you for being a parent that I only hope to be some day!



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by lostsock


Right on. It's better to be prepared and nothing happen than the opposite. For those who KNOW nothing is going to happen in 2012.....have fun with that. Must be nice to be a perfect psychic. Man made disasters are the bare minimum of what's coming, but I'm sure not preparing will turn out just fine.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Right on. It's better to be prepared and nothing happen than the opposite. For those who KNOW nothing is going to happen in 2012.....have fun with that. Must be nice to be a perfect psychic. Man made disasters are the bare minimum of what's coming, but I'm sure not preparing will turn out just fine.

You are either completely missing the point of the OP, or you are ignoring it. There is a difference between being prepared, and fearmongering beliefs to children, who in turn start thinking about (or going through with) suicide.

Even if this world will be completely obliterated in 478 days, what good would there be in a child killing him/herself tonight? Would it not be better for this child to live?

*478 = random number

reply to post by BrokenCircles


No I'm not missing the point. You know why kids and teens want to commit suicide? Because of reality, or the reality they're aware of that really sucks. I've been there myself so I can actually add some experienced information to this. Young people are highly influenced and the big corporations are responsible for their misery trickled down from royals, to the federal level, to the state, to the towns, to the parents, then to the kids.
If you want to blame someone, follow the money.

And reality does not = fear mongering, a lot of people get those 2 things confused. The TV news is fear mongering, Alex Jones, David Icke, etc. is reality mongering, difference.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


Now that really is a stupid question obviously from someone suffering from normalcy bias and quite clearly completely uneducated in any ancient cultures.
Why is so hard to accept that this could be the end of life as we know it every race and animal has been wiped out before why couldnt it happen again?
These things happen in cycles and were nearing the end of this one in 2012.
As for the specific dates yes there very very specific and come from cultures thousands of miles and years appart how could they all have the same date isnt that alone enought to consider preparing?
Our past it completely riddled with very important information, almost left as a warning to us now obviously you are sitting in front of the TV watching the news waiting on them telling you that something might happen well good luck with that as im looking at what is written in the past warning us of the future and i bet you a million quid if you actually spend a few months looking at the right stuff you would be 100% convinced that in the near future everything is going to change. Im not saying the world will end nor did the mayans they said its the end of the cycle and when the cycle ends bad things happen to the planet and the people before the new cycle starts, now if you want to see the new age start you better get off your ass and start preparing instead of comparing the most inportant time in human history to some stupid Y2K glitch.
SORRY THIS WAS FOR post by spolvil