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Bill on Texas Secession presented to Texas Legislature

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posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Cuervo
I didn't read through all 15 pages so I'll just give my overall opinion of a Texas independence. In a nutshell, I totally support it. I'm not a fan of Texas but I'm all for any state willing to be self sustaining. In fact, the Republic of Cascadia (where I live) was voted by Time Magazine as one of the top upstart nations in the world. We just need some crazy ass rebels like the Texans to pave the way so the rest of us can follow suit.

Don't get me wrong, I still want the USA to exist but it should be in a capacity similar to the EU. States (or groups of them) should have their own sovereignty if the wish to.


Again, thanks for the input and as always, the suggestions from foreigners as to how the US and the States should be run does and should fall on deaf ears.


Wow. Your sense of irony more than makes up for your reading comprehension. I'm not a foreigner. Texas wants to become one. I stated that I support it. Then you call me a foreigner and tell me that my opinion (which supports Texan sovereignty) is invalid.

I'm hoping you just misread what I typed and, if that's the case, we can both agree to agree but not like it.




posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Oh Really?


Yes, really. Once you subtract the federal funding from your national guard, what will you have left? How many troops? Planes? Bombs? Tanks? Bases? Maybe you think the Federal government is going to tie it's own hands and just match you man for man? You can say "National Guard" all you like. I see no actual break down of the forces and equipment you will be left with after the federal government closes off its bases, takes back its equipment, closes off its land, recalls its troops, and stop funding yout National Guard.

Let's see what you got left.



land corridors or gateways? You don't say!




Did you think I meant that the roads would cease to exist? Sorry but the federal government is not going to just hand over access and continue to maintain those. Those belong to the federal government and will remain that way. Of course, Texas can raise taxes and build a parallel system but it will have to buy access from the United States.



You also have to be smart enough to understand that allowing a neighboring ENEMY nation access to so many federally owned biways becomes a matter of national security for the US and it is doubtful that you will just be given all this federally built and maintained infrastructure. Airspace would surely be completely open and unsecured thus giving Texas airports the same level of access it has now.


You are too funny. Yeah, the roads will be there. They just are not yours to keep. You do not get to run away and take the family car with you.


Cool. Texas will have enough without sending it's money to the federal government, and then having to beg for some of it back.


Sure they will. Your well researched numbers are overwhelming while Texas record of begging for federal funds to bail out their crop losses stands for itself.


umm . . . Come and Take IT!
edit on 3/9/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/9/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)


What the hell makes you think I would want it? You keep you poorly funded National Guard, empty stores, and all the squirrel you can shoot. Not for me, thanks. I am not so sure every other nation on the planet will have the same view though. Who knows. some religious fanatics may decide to wage war on Texas. Perhaps Mexico will want to take you back. I am not interested.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
The Texas military is made up of a majority of Texans, seeing as how they have to travel to training at least once a moth. It is the same with other states. Sure, there are a few non-Texans, but the majority of Guardsmen in Texas, are Texans.


Right, the Texas military.
A mighty force to be reckoned with.


Being stationed (active duty) is not the same as being a member of the Texas Guard.


Very good.


Remember. They are, as a whole, one unit. The National Guard. They are split up into 50 smaller units called the (State Name) National Guard.


And even with their current levels of FEDERAL FUNDING, they have ....?


You are trying to to say that Wisconsin National Guard is Texas National Guard (for example). They are separate entities that are part of a country wide system.


I am? I believe I am saying what I am trying to say. The US military -equipment, land, and soldiers, are all property of the federal government. Your National Guard is even partly funded with FEDERAL MONEY. If you want to call what you will have left a "military" then technically you are right. Then again, technically you have already won the case for secession too, right? Still here? Still using federal forces in your state?


Why are you trying so hard to convince anyone that you should leave and can leave? Just leave.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Who is talking from their backside? Surely not the posters who keep saying Texas has the right to leave, should leave, and they want to go with it yet are all still here just saying it. Obviously you all mean exactly what you say, you just need to keep saying it for a while.




Patience is a virtue, which you obviously don't have.

But keep trollin' the interwebs.



So you cannot actually address what I said and all you can do is call me a troll.
I am guessing this is why you are still in the US complaining about how much you want to leave it. Lack of substance?



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Bush would be proud of you. Stay the course!


Bush? You mean your man Perry's idol? That Bush? The Bush that your state elected overwhelmingly? More than once? That guy? I thought he was no longer president and we could not bring him up anymore? Oh, you are trying to insult me. Oh, I get it. An attempt at an insult. Well...good try I guess.


As for being cowardly . . . self preservation is the farthest thing from cowardice.


Call running away whatever you need to call it in order to make it feel good to say.

I would dare suggest that standing up to fight for what you believe in is the brave thing to do. You run away though. If you want to call that brave, go ahead. Call it anything you like. Just do it from your new homeland already.


Furthermore . . .
(italicized word has been changed to suit the present time.)


An original thought would have been compelling. Changing a couple words from a quoted text seems lazy. I am sorry you could not make your own point.




So . . . our founding fathers were cowards, according to you. They just cut and run, instead of trying to work with the tyrannical system


Comparing your whining about wanting to leave the US, but maintain much of what the US gave you to people that actually took up root in a completely new land and then fought an actual war to maintain that is QUITE A STRETCH. You really think you are Jefferson, don't you?




Tell me about it. What is next, you gonna use quotes from Jesus to pretend what you are doing is comparable to anything he was doing?


And for the cherry on top, from the Texas Constitution:



You have done this already. Right, you claim you have the constitution on your side and the people on your side. Cool, so go already. Either I should have patience and wait for you to actually have the means, the support, and the will to do it, or you already have those things and it is time to say goodbye.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Since I had suggested the Right of the State, Constitutionally speaking, that the states rights allow a secession. You " yammering over there " that they need to get on with it, is constructive how?


The EXACT same way in all this crying about how Texas has the right to do it is constructive.


Your case,



or this entire thread is a bunch of hooey.


Actually that is a question, not a case.


With no evidence that would contradict the Constitutionality of the Rights of Texas, would suggest that you are " Hooey ".


So Texas has seceded then? When did it happen? While I was responding to this post? The only thing I have said is that it sounds like a fantasy but go for it. I have no clue what you are suggesting I said was hooey. Please clarify.


Add to post edit: My main focus on this thread, has been the Right of the State, within the Constitution, and in conjunction of the BOR. And your evidence is where?


My evidence for what?


....that is not the right of the State?


Is it? Then get on with it.


I just see emotionally based comments backed by no sound evidence?


You noticed that too?



Just your own thoughts, though as misguided as they seem.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


So my suggestion that Texas is still part of the US no matter how many fringers cry about wanting to leave is misguided? So you all believe now that Texas has actually seceded?



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Because the "terrorists" hate Texas because of its interference in global affairs. Yes?


Are you suggesting they hated New York because of New York's interference in global affairs?


There are these things called weapons. You use them to protect your life, liberty, and property.


Texas has a completely independant and unlimited supply of weapons? Why are you not using them to protect your borders now? Oh, I am sure your hands are tied but after the federal government pulls its weapons and money, you will have more weapons and money to play with, right? Sure. Maybe you think every cross eyed, 400lb, Jersey Shore watcher than can buy a gun is going to save you? You know Mexico has weapons too. So do other nations.

Why do you think Texas is the only place with weapons and cows?



That has been proven false in this thread.


The only thing proven wrong in this thread has been your claim that Texas has the right and the will to secede.


Thanks for trying, Synnthia.


I will admit that my spelling is hardly perfect but the fact that you reply to me and continuously spell my name wrong does kind of start to stand out.


You get to join the egg on the face club


Because you say so? What an argument.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by GullibleUnderlord
 


did you not read the OP, it says this vote is non-binding and for advisory purposes only.....so nothing will happen if it is passed



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Is that all you can do? Attempt to instigate an argument based off of an off topic conversation several pages ago?




Huh?

I was responding to a post to me by Lemon.Fresh. If it is so egregiously off topic, then you might want to mention that to Lemon.fresh.

Am I supposed to check with you before I respond to what other people post to me?

Wow. You might want to relax a tad.


You have attempted time and again to refute either what lemon Fresh Presented or myself, with no viable evidence.


I have? Then quoting me one of your winning arguments should not be a problem. You guys say you want to leave the US. I say you are full of it.

Are you still in the US or not?


Thus solidifying that you are unable to conjure up a constructive thought to this thread.....


To what? What is there for me to argue? I am wishing you all the best of luck with your squirrel meat fest! Have at it! You have my blessing. Just go already.


Your trolling efforts are astounding!


Calling me a troll is what you people think passes for an argument? I am not sure what it is you think it is I am supposed to back up or prove. You are the ones crying about leaving. You are the ones not leaving. It is all on you. I am simply trying to see you off so the rest of us can get back to not having to hear about it.

Bye already.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Janky Red

Again, it took SC 40 years to do it from the time it was first put before the Legislature.

How dare the people show their disgust at the federal government, and give the government time to change. Let's knee-jerk everything!



No, you gave a bunch of BS, which I easily refuted.

I love America. I do not love the federal government.


Two years of threats, where was Texas when their asshole ex governor was busy wiping his ass with the constitution??? Oh ya, busy manning his reelection campaign for part two...


Do some research. You will find that the secessionist movement did not like what Bush was doing, and did not approve, as it infringed on the rights of the people and of the states.

But keep living in your dream wold.


The non stop, holier than thou self stroking of Texas is as tiering as the smell of hairspray in a Dallas honkytonk -


And another "disguised" attack on "Texas Culture."

Funny how you get so bent out of shape and start spewing vitriol over people wanting to assert their rights.


I gave you my opinion and my BIAS based on EXPERIENCE. You showed me statistics which did not quell my bias because I have EXPERIENCE

Ya, Texas could've helped stop the madness last decade, but again, they helped reelect the madness...
They could have put the FEDS in their place (not corporations... S&L) they did not, it is BS cultural identity
politics, the lord, the guns,the accent, the backslapping, the strength and the coded talk that initiated the
support, I have no way to explain it, or was it based on BUSH'S small government platform
performance
???


edit on 9-3-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by macman
Some people are just tired of beating their head into the wall.
Some people can see the writing on the wall and want to get out before it all really goes to pot.


Who are you trying to convince?

What part of goodbye is not getting through? Are you all waiting for us to shed a tear? Beg you to stay? Tell you we love you and we are sorry. It will all be different? Doesn't look like that is about to happen so its time to put up or shut up.

Um no. The petition has been started. It is a discussion here. Sounds like the process has started.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Cuervo
I didn't read through all 15 pages so I'll just give my overall opinion of a Texas independence. In a nutshell, I totally support it. I'm not a fan of Texas but I'm all for any state willing to be self sustaining. In fact, the Republic of Cascadia (where I live) was voted by Time Magazine as one of the top upstart nations in the world. We just need some crazy ass rebels like the Texans to pave the way so the rest of us can follow suit.

Don't get me wrong, I still want the USA to exist but it should be in a capacity similar to the EU. States (or groups of them) should have their own sovereignty if the wish to.


Again, thanks for the input and as always, the suggestions from foreigners as to how the US and the States should be run does and should fall on deaf ears.


Wow. Your sense of irony more than makes up for your reading comprehension. I'm not a foreigner. Texas wants to become one. I stated that I support it. Then you call me a foreigner and tell me that my opinion (which supports Texan sovereignty) is invalid.

I'm hoping you just misread what I typed and, if that's the case, we can both agree to agree but not like it.

I do think that I miss-read the statement. I jumped the gun on my statement.
Yes, we are in agreement.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by macman
Um no.

Um no?

You cannot covince me that you have seceded until you actually do. Sorry if that is a problem but I am a stickler for that sort of thing.


The petition has been started. It is a discussion here. Sounds like the process has started.


Wow. The petition has been started huh. When was that started? 2 years ago? How long is this process going to take? Lemon.Fresh's entire premise is that there is no legal ground to get held up on so...let's get going.

Stop coming back to tell us how serious you are about leaving and just get going.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


I stand corrected. It's not extortion at all to require ratification of an amendment before a state will be admitted to the Union. That's just business as usual for DC. Now, if a FOREIGN country were to be admitted, I can see where they'd have to accept the Constitution in it's entirety. Hard to fathom the Federals REQUIRING a pre-existent,


Again I asked you for a reference, a link, a source, thanks.


My apologies. The previous poster I referred to said that the States had to change their constitutions in order to gain admittance to the Union. You corrected me, saying that State constitutions are irrelevant, that only the Federal Constitution counts, and specifying the 13th Amendment to that document as the bone of contention.

This is a precise quote of what you said:



Change their consitutions? The states constitutions are irrelevant in this case, what is important is the US constitution, and the part of it that was changed as the result of the civil which was the 13th ammendment.


Source here

I presumed from that, evidently incorrectly, that you already knew ratification of the 13th Amendment was a REQUIREMENT of the occupied Confederate States admission to the Union. My comments subsequent to that in that post were contingent upon your understanding that point which I erroneously thought you had raised yourself. Since all my comments are hinged on that, I'll repeat them again, then give you your reference:



I stand corrected. It's not extortion at all to require ratification of an amendment before a state will be admitted to the Union. That's just business as usual for DC. Now, if a FOREIGN country were to be admitted, I can see where they'd have to accept the Constitution in it's entirety. Hard to fathom the Federals REQUIRING a pre-existent, already member state to ratify an amendment. Seems to nullify the purpose of ratification, doesn't it?

So what do you suppose would have happened if the Confederate states had just said "naw, I ain't ratifying that"? Do you suppose the Federals would have just said "oh, ok, just go on back to your Confederacy, and we'll leave you alone from now on"? Surely they wouldn't have been coercive by threatening force, now would they?


Now, for a quote and link to the reference backing up your claim that ratification of the 13th Amendment was REQUIRED of all occupied Confederate States admitted to the Union:



The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, ratified December 6, 1865, abolished slavery throughout the United States, ending the distinction. Ratification of the 13th Amendment was a condition of the return of local rule to those states that had declared their secession.


Source here

If, instead, you were requiring a link to the second part of my post (it wasn't really clear what you were demanding there, so it could have gone either way - OR you simply ignored that part of my post out of "convenience"), Then you again are the source of the information that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that the President has to get Congressional approval to wage wars on foreigners, but can wage war on his own People without any such approval.

You said:



Lincoln needed approval from congress to go to war against a foreign nation, you are assuming that the confederate states was a sovereign nation, which was not the case.


Source here

To which I replied:



It's also good to know that the President isn't required to gain the approval of Congress before waging war on his own people, and that stipulation only applies to making war on foreigners. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I know I'll sleep a lot better with that knowledge under my hat.


Source here.




edit on 2011/3/9 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


You do realize that if Texas did secede from the Union EMP bomb's would be dropped across the State and either cruise missle would be used to eliminate the state government or special op's forces would arrest the state government.

+ Texas only has two nuke plants and a small national guard. Texas Air National Guard is a joke, only able to field:
C-130 Hercules United States Tactical Transport
F-16C/D Fighting Falcon United States Air Superiority Fighter
MQ-1 Predator United States Remote controlled UAV

The battle would be over before Texan's even seen it coming.
------
P.S even if Texan's in the federal military defected to the Texas Republic it wouldn't matter. Washington D.C would just phone Harrisburg, and a few F-22's from the Pennsylvania National Air Guard would eliminate any Texan or pro-Texan air force(our air force have an air refueling capability) or army units.

+ with reinforcements from the California National Guard(they have the most ground units of any National Guard I think)and from various Midwest states National Air Guard, it wouldn't last long.
edit on 8-3-2011 by korathin because: (no reason given)


So why would the fed Govt attack Texas, if all they did was separate?
Isn't that unprovoked war?


His scenario isn't the Federal Government attacking Texas, it's the Federal Government ordering various states to attack Texas, probably in a bid to circumvent Posse Comitatus. I don't know about PA, maybe that's how they roll, but I'm pretty sure the the NCNG would have a "WTF?" moment, after which someone would be demanding a psych evaluation of the CiC, rather than deploying out of state to the Texas Front.

Some would just go home and turn on the TV, some would doubtless come to the aid of Texas, and evidently (going by his enthusiastic post) some would say "hell yeah, let's bomb the crap outta Texas!"



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by macman
Um no.

Um no?

You cannot covince me that you have seceded until you actually do. Sorry if that is a problem but I am a stickler for that sort of thing.


The petition has been started. It is a discussion here. Sounds like the process has started.


Wow. The petition has been started huh. When was that started? 2 years ago? How long is this process going to take? Lemon.Fresh's entire premise is that there is no legal ground to get held up on so...let's get going.

Stop coming back to tell us how serious you are about leaving and just get going.


No patience I guess.
I personally can't push the Govt, and it isn't going to travel any faster then what it is.
If it is to happen, it is going to be a long and drawn out process.
You are of the mindset of most "Fast and right now".
Trust me, there are many many many people that would love to see the States reclaim their Rights and bitch slap the Fed Govt back to its correct position.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


You do realize that if Texas did secede from the Union EMP bomb's would be dropped across the State and either cruise missle would be used to eliminate the state government or special op's forces would arrest the state government.

+ Texas only has two nuke plants and a small national guard. Texas Air National Guard is a joke, only able to field:
C-130 Hercules United States Tactical Transport
F-16C/D Fighting Falcon United States Air Superiority Fighter
MQ-1 Predator United States Remote controlled UAV

The battle would be over before Texan's even seen it coming.
------
P.S even if Texan's in the federal military defected to the Texas Republic it wouldn't matter. Washington D.C would just phone Harrisburg, and a few F-22's from the Pennsylvania National Air Guard would eliminate any Texan or pro-Texan air force(our air force have an air refueling capability) or army units.

+ with reinforcements from the California National Guard(they have the most ground units of any National Guard I think)and from various Midwest states National Air Guard, it wouldn't last long.
edit on 8-3-2011 by korathin because: (no reason given)


So why would the fed Govt attack Texas, if all they did was separate?
Isn't that unprovoked war?


His scenario isn't the Federal Government attacking Texas, it's the Federal Government ordering various states to attack Texas, probably in a bid to circumvent Posse Comitatus. I don't know about PA, maybe that's how they roll, but I'm pretty sure the the NCNG would have a "WTF?" moment, after which someone would be demanding a psych evaluation of the CiC, rather than deploying out of state to the Texas Front.

Some would just go home and turn on the TV, some would doubtless come to the aid of Texas, and evidently (going by his enthusiastic post) some would say "hell yeah, let's bomb the crap outta Texas!"


Yeah, I don't see where an attack would happen. I could see sanctions and the like, but not a military strike.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by macman
No patience I guess.

For empty whining? Not much, no.

I personally can't push the Govt, and it isn't going to travel any faster then what it is.
If it is to happen, it is going to be a long and drawn out process.

Oh so now it is an "if" huh?

Right, so it might happen, might not, either way, not for a long time. Uh huh. So you want out, but you need a couple of decades to pack and even then, you might not go.
Got it!

You are of the mindset of most "Fast and right now".

No, you have no idea about me or my mindset. When it comes to listening to people whine about how much they want to leave but never actually leave...well yeah I would like that to not drag on forever. You like a long slow retreat I take it?

Trust me, there are many many many people that would love to see the States reclaim their Rights and bitch slap the Fed Govt back to its correct position.

There are people that would like to be king of their own island. There are people that would like the power to fly. There are people that want to win the lottery. People want things. There are people here that want the freedom to dine on roadkill as opposed to all that pesky imported food. I never denied that any of you want anything. Now go get it!



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


You and your buddy here do not seem to understand why those states were readmitted. They were not readmitted on the basis that they were foreign nations prior, they were readmitted because without readmission, they'd merely be territories of the United states. The point of readmission was for the Southern delegates to gain representation in congress again.

It makes no sense to argue that they were forced back into the Union then had to apply to join as a seperate nation. This would assume that the Federal government had circular logic at the time, but reality points to this being not the case. Without readmission the confederate states would just be territories, land part of the United states but without representation in congress.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

. . .

The fact that it has not happened and is not happening, kind of makes those claims "All BS. Nothing but blah blah blah with nothing to back it up."

. . .



Perhaps you should re-read the OP? Something is happening.




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