Originally posted by Tamahu
We obviously disagree on many things, which is fine. Although let me just say that the Gnostic Movement distances itself from the Roman Catholic
church, even if you think there are similarities (well, there are some similarities, only because the Roman Catholic church decided to keep from the
Gnostic doctrine what fit their agenda, and discarded the rest; kind of like Aleister Crowley did).
Well, a doctrine is a body of assorted teachings, beliefs and laws, including a discernment of what is good and what is evi. To restate, Samael took
the position that male and female homoerotic relationships, contraception, abortion and non monogamous relationships (which he defined as adultery)
were all diabolical. Thus, although in terms of "metaphysical beliefs," his position differs somewhat from the Roman Catholics and the Christan Right,
his views on morality (what is good and what is evil) are decidedly Catholic, conservative and commonplace among the Neofascist Christians of the US
Christian Right. Thus Samael will never be considered to be "politically correct" by the modern world and by the New Age movement in general
Further, since you appear to revere Samael as a mentor; often that which we revere, we become; which is why we find Christianity to be full of bigots,
homophobes, genocidal apocalyptic militants, fake healers and fake miracle workers who prey on the vulnerable, since those are characteristics of the
biblical deity (the fictional Jesus essentially). You seem to be more open regarding heterosexual polyamory than Samael was, but I notice that one of
your favoured topics seems to be attacking homosexuality, and in this sense you are allying yourself with the slave morality of the Christian right,
the Muslims and the human-nature-hating fanatics of the slave religions of the old aeon.
You are obviously quite intelligent and educated, and a creature of the modern world, and I assume that you consider yourself to be quite a
"spiritual" person, however the idea that a "spiritual" person should be a creature who hates human nature is really part of the problem of the old
Gnostic mind / body dualism belief.
The idea that your body was created by the "demiurge (i.e., an evil Creator)," and that your spirit was created by the good Creator, is a primitive
form of polytheism which causes this kind of Catholic thinking, which despises human nature. If there is universal singularity then there must be
personal singularlity; you "are" your body and your mind. The divine laws (natural laws) are written into your mind; you eat, you sleep, you desire,
you love, you will, and all this requires physical action, and this is as nature intended.
Yes, the world is Hell on earth for most people; it is a world of war, slavery, tyranny and the degradation of divine beings (human beings) who are
the children of One Mother Nature, and who are potentially the gods and goddesses of the New Heaven. However, the major religions of the world have
not resolved this. The Catholics who promote this kind of Gnostic human-nature-hating belief have been around for over 16 centuries and have not
created heaven on earth; they have contributed greatly to the creation of Hell on earth; similarly with Islam and Hinduism, and with most varieties of
traditional shamanism with their witch doctors and bags of bones.
The positive definition of "Gnostic," which was adopted by Crowley and by the New Age movement in general, has nothing to do with the hatred of human
nature; it has to do with inner enlightenment (which also includes a modern secular, scientific education). The modern progressive proponents of this
view, such as Crowley, OSHO, Timothy Leary, Alan Watts and the Neopagan movement in general, while being "Gnostics," are not gnostic in the primitive
human-nature-hating sense of the term. Modern Neognosticism is entwined with the idea that there is a cosmic consciousness; that we are all brothers
and sisters; that we are all interconnected and entwined at a quantum level. Love is the Law; not hatred, bigotry and the hatred of human and animal
I am not homosexual and I personally believe that exclusive homosexuality is "unnatural" for most people, but it is natural for some people due to
their genetic disposition; it is the way they were created; it is their nature. Humans and animals are naturally bisexual and it is because they have
been designed that way; and what is part of natural design is therefore "godly" and sacred.
One of my close friends, who is exclusively lesbian, had many years of experiences with paternalistic, violent, abusive men; she would probably never
have become exclusively lesbian had it not been for the male savages whom she met in her life, and frankly this is simply the kind of "football
hooligan" male which our Capitalist, paternalistic, misogynistic, societies produce, and the religions of the old aeon are no solution to this; they
only reinforce such attitudes. The religions of the old aeon generally promote the idea of paternalism and the enslavement and obedience of women, and
the idea that a women should be a lifelong sex slave of one male and have no intimate relationships with other women or men.
A bisexual polyamorist woman is an emotionally powerful creature; a creature of love. Her heart and soul cannot so easily be possessed and broken by a
singular paternalistic and possessive male; assuming that she has a network of other brothers and sisters who also love and desire her; similarly with
the male of the species; we are all like this; it is our nature. Thus no man nor woman can break my heart or possess me, for I am much more powerful
than that, and my power is derived from being loving with others, and being loved by others, and my confidence in that; and this is a very simple
formula which even a child can understand.
I did not always think as a I do. I am a product of a decades long dialectical process and I have been milled by a lifetime of relationships and
debates and fascinations with various political and religious philosophies. We are all in a process. The wheels of karma are slow to grind and the
path to heaven is narrow and few are they who find it.
Personally I think that you should glean what you find useful from Samael and leave him behind as an ex mentor and ex teacher. Think for yourself.
Never suspend ciritcism of anyone, including yourself; indeed "especially" including your own writings and beliefs. I can read essays which I wrote
many years ago in periods of spiritual confusion and they outrage me, and I find them to be contemptible and delusional. I have written many essays
from the point of view of a militant, apocalyptic genocidal Communist, which could not even be posted on forums such as this, for they represent the
point of view of a genocidal political exteremist. Political and religious fanaticism are easy delusions to fall into; the world changes slowly, and
the revolutions of the mind which may take centuries to manifest are but a speck of dust in eternity, and in the 20 billion years our universe has
probably been in existence.
The World Wide Web is the apotheosis of an aeon's long quest for knowledge; it is human history's greatest ever resaerch library; it is a tool for
universal education for a human population which is the most literate, the most rational and the most scientific in all of known history, and yet it
is also full of religious fanatics who seek to turn the clock back to our primitive past. Don't become one of these savages; you are capable of so
On the other hand many souls are "progressive" modern influences, and the world of Internet debating forums is not just a hobby for us; they are a
means to influence collective human consciousness and to dispel ignorance. One speaks to a 1000 and to 10,000 and to the myriads, as the lightening
flashes from the east to the west, and we sit in judgement on the living and the dead. Be careful of your judgements (your discernments of good and
evil), for many are they who promote evil and hatred in the name of God, thinking themselves righteous. "God," "good" and "love" are probably among
the most misused words in human history, and terrible and dreadful is the curse upon the savages who misuse these terms.
It takes intellectual honesty and the free mind of a free thinker to concede and retract points, to admit errancy and to change one's point of view;
but there is no shame in that; it is an indication not of folly but of wisdom. I am not unciitical of Aleister Crowley or Osho or Neitzsche or any of
my mentors; they were all flawed human beings; I have outlived them and I can look back and move on from them, and I have an advantageous historical
position where I can judge them.
, Samael Aun Weor did not get the Gnostic motto of Thelema from "Aleister Crowley".
In this moment, Francois Rabelais and Huiracocha (Arnold Krumm-Heller), and Matthew, Luke, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Saint Augustine, and ..Dr. Peithmann
(Basilides) all come to mind.
They all have different definitions of "true will," and for St Augustine, for example, his edict"Love, and do what thou wilt
" must be
understood in the context of his human nature hating Biblical ideology. His understanding of "love" is devoid of lust, whch is perfectly natural godly
and sacred part of our true will.
edit on 10-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis and the text was too diabolical