Originally posted by beebs
But I agree with much you have written on the subject - including Ayahuasca.
Are you familiar with Terence Mckenna?
Regarding Crowley's necromancy, I must refrain from interpreting it as anything other than a psychological phenomena - but again I think the area to
be discussed is how to reconcile the psycho-physical problem. I do this only because it provides a firm skeptical background for investigation -
until something further is evidenced. I remain open minded, having never experienced such an event - although I have experienced other curious
I do not like to give these phenomena labels such as "discarnate", because I think it mischaracterizes the situation. I think the human mind is
capable of significant feats, don't get me wrong, but "discarnate" isn't the proper term for me..
If, for example, one studies the numerous trip reports on www.erowid.org...
it is very clear that probably most of the reported experiences with
shamanic psychoactives could be described as "religious experiences," or "spiritual experiences" as well as being "psychological experiences." One of
the problems with speaking about "discarnate entities," or the communion with "supernatual beings (i.e., daemons)" is that the mind can tend to play
tricks with it's own memory banks.
For example when a Christian has a natural '___' rush on the brain, they may claim to have had a vision of Jesus; when a Sadhu has visions, they will
perhaps claim that Shiva appeared in a vision; a Catholic may claim to have had a vision of the Virgin Mary, and so forth. For example I recall a
hallucinogenic vision I had in my teens of "Jesus;" however on hindsight I realised that the vision was based upon an image of a children's Bible I
had when I was young, depicting the stereotypical Germanic blond haired, blue eyed Aryan Jesus in a white robe; yet we know historically that the
ancient Israelites were a Semitic (i.e., of Arabic appearance) appearance.
Similarly persons who believe in reincarnation, tend to have spiritual experiences which confirm their reincarnation beliefs, whereas people who do
not believe in reincarnation, but who have afterlife beliefs, tend to have spiritual experiences which confirm such beliefs, such as the appearance of
ancestors, angels and so forth.
There is an interesting theory that the medieval religious hysteria about witches, demons, faries etc., had a synthetic cause. The population was
dependent all year round on the preservation of the autumn harvest and if the humidity was too high when grain was stored, or it became damp, it
became mouldy; and of course in food mould, especially rye and barley mould, psychoactive fungi such as "ergot" contains chemical psychoactives which
do not dissapear in the cooking or heating process. Thus our ancestors from childhood were often living on a diet of mouldy grain and alcohol; the
latter of which was not merely drunk for pleasure, but for nutrition, and was thus commonly part of a child's diet. It has also been suggested that
the Salem Witchraft trials may have been the result of this phenomenon; however ergot epidemics were quite widespread in the medieval world.
The problem when speaking of "other dimensions of reality" or "discarnate intelligences" or "secret masters," which spiritualists such as Crowley and
Mathers claimed to be in communication with, is that such experiences are totally subjective, and indeed it has been claimed that around 20 to 25% of
all schizophrenics are suffering from religious forms of schizophrenia, where they hear voices, and commonly claim that God or spirits are in
communiction with them. Even George "God told me to invade Iraq"
" Bush made such claims, and similarly Adolf Hitler and many leading Nazis were
obsessed with the realm of occultism, seances, spiritual channeling, astrology, etc. In fact almost all ancient cultures appear to have some form of
I have no doubt that when Crowley claimed that various daemons whom he had summoned appeared to him, that he did have such experiences, since I have
also had such experiences throughout my life; the problem is of course, that if one were to photograph a person during such an experience, one would
not see the daemon, since the experience is purely subjective and is happening only in the person's mind. Similarly with a schizophrenic in a mental
hospital who believes that they are being chased by daemons.
Unfortunately the realm of occultism can also be the realm of delusions; delusions which seem very real and can take over one's subjective reality.
There are many people who live in total fear of some phantom whom they believe to be God and are terrified to break the phantom's laws, and to commit
offences such as working on the Sabbath or even having sex without first purchasing a slave girl (i.e., a wife), or cutting their beard or hair.
It may seem rather incredible, but the person who fails to property sacrifice an animal in the prescribed way, may genuinely feel cursed and live in
total fear of the offended phantom; this kind of thinking is expressed in the story of Abraham, who because he failed to perform an animal sacrifice
in the correct way, his god allegedly cursed his ancestors with 400 years of slavery. 400 years of slavery for failing to cut two birds in half, may
seem rather ridiculous to a modernist, but unfortunately many people still worship such diabolical deities, and still think in such a way.
While the human brain certainly has the appearance of organic "material," the human consciousness which it produces is certainly not material. and
many human beings do seem to be under the impression that they can perceive other dimensions and discarnate intelligences; the problem is that these
experiences are unreliable and dependent on the person's personal beliefs and memory. I do not however consider such phenomenon in the same way that a
materialist does, who reduces it all to psychology and brain chemistry. The experiences I have had of other dimensions and intelligences have simply
been too powerful and overwhelming for me to dismiss them; even though I am totally aware that delusions, visions, dreams and hallucinations can seem
very real and can be explained by brain chemistry and the psychoactive chemicals our body naturally produces and which we often unknowingly or
I have to point out that due to the particular methods I have been using, there have been periods in my life where I have totally lost touch with
reality and have been living in a world of total delusion and phantasms; Abramelin magick has been described as a form of self induced schizophrenia,
and not without good reason; the path is besought with dangers, and one risks one's sanity to walk upon it. Narrow is the path to heaven, and few are
they who find it, and wide is the path to Hell and many are they who walk upon it.
In relatively recent history persons who studied "Theology" or "Religious Studies" were generally being prepared to enter the profession of the
priesthood; however I merely undertook a graduate degree in "Theological and Religious Studies" because of my fascination with all matters religious,
occultic and spiritual, and I soon discovered that many of the academics in the religion faculty were evangelically anti-religious; some of them being
openly Marxist. I discovered that I had embarked not upon a study of human goodness, but upon a study of human evil, of abominable delusions and of
the effects of religious schizophrenia.
It is my general thesis that almost all of the great religious texts of the world were authored by religious schizophrenics, and that the model of a
"perfect person" presented by religionists is usually always a model of a schizophrenic. This has had a devastating effect on human history; and thus
despite my own personal spritualistic cosmology, I remain openly hostile to all forms of organised religion.
Regarding the Cabalistic elements in the occult revival, this is unarguable. The only thing is the method in which those elements may or may not
connect backward to the ancient world.
Unfortunately it is not possible to prove or disprove the "ancientness" of many oral traditions; since an oral tradition, to state the obvious, is
oral, and leaves only clues and fragments scattered in the written historical record. We Homo Sapiens arrived on earth perhaps as much as 300,000
years and yet the development of writing is only very recent, and a great deal of ancient writing is mythical, historically unreliable and merely the
propaganda of tyrants, priests and prophets. Even the Freemasons whose modern organisation can be traced to the 17th century claim to represent an
ancient legacy which goes back to the mythical Solomon and even to Noah; even irregular Masonic lodges which have been formed relatively recently make
such claims; however as far as I concerned it is not about the age of an organisation; it is about studying all such organisations and their allegedly
"secret" teachings, and attempting to find out what such teachings are, and what they have in common with the mysterious religions of the ancient
You are correct IMO, the Tarot was not invented by Levi, but perhaps the notion that it originated with the Egyptians was invented by him - or
at least assumed by him, perhaps from some other contact or source.
He is a great writer, and makes his case grandly. But it is misleading to claim the Egyptians knew the Tarot. Perhaps they knew an occult system of
numerology(which I think is true) that was later incorporated into the Hebrew language and that later made it into Tarot. I think it more likely that
the Tarot perhaps came from farther east, India or China perhaps.
The I-Ching, for example, is practically the same thing.
Oh I don't think that anyone is seriously suggesting that the Egyptians were using a pack of modern Tarot cards for divinations; merely that the
modern Tarot is based upon an ancient form of divination which combines astrological archetypes with the archetypes of many daemons such as described
in the Lessor Key of Solomon ( en.wikipedia.org...
), which of course is also a modern text. Systems of divination
appear in almost every culture from the Rune stones of the Europeans to the African shamans with their bags of bones; though certainly the I Ching and
the Tarot are much more sophisticated systems, and I would say are certainly the two most advanced systems.
Certainly both the modern Tarot system and the I Ching seem to be designed to impart wisdom and to produce a wise person rather than a deluded
religious fanatic; never the less I have no doubt that the history of the demonology which the Tarot is based upon is littered with blood, and that it
respresents aspects of an ancient form of esoteric knowledge which was entwined with the blood sacrifice cults of the ancient world; thus the term
"The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil;" however the modern Tarot is merely a pictorial representation of the Tree of Life and of numerous human
archetypes and experiences..
edit on 9-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis
edit on 9-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text
Originally posted by Doomzilla
reply to post by Lucifer777
Hi there fellow Brit .
I have a question for you which I believe you can answer .
Im anti war anti capitalism anti secret societies im neither right wing or left but I admire the Latin American leaders who are left . I dont vote
because there arent any english politicians that I trust .
I believe cannabis should be legalised , it has never killed anyone as opposed to alcohol and cigarettes .
I'm not in favour of currency based economies , in our current situation I believe there should be wage caps as the middle class and poor are being
destroyed imo the food and water resources are being hoarded by the elite which needs to change
I dont believe in external gods , I feel we have the potential to be gods ie creating life or destroying life and we can determine our fate .
On ats I have been called a socialist and a communist . I d like to know what you think (if anthing) I am .
I would also define myself politically as a Socialist, Anarchist and Communist. I been immersed in the Anarchist subculture for many years, however I
do not believe that Anarchist Communism is a global solution which would work in the short term; it is a long term goal and something which has to be
acheived over time; the world is simply too barbaric for Anarchist Communist solution at the moment; a perfect human society can only be acheived if
there are perfect human beings.
Probably most of the highly educated and irreligious classes of the world would be able to produce a rather civillized Anarchist society, but such
people are not in the majority in the world. If one considers the crime free Israeli Communist collectives (i.e., the Kibbutzim); most of their
inhabitants have been raised in the Kibbutzim since children and they are perfectly adjusted to communal and socialist values; however if one were to
place the current economic elites of Capitalism on a hypothetical island with the football hooligan element of the proletariat, I very much doubt if
Communist paradise would be the result, but rather gang warfare and violence would be more likely; Anarchy in it's most awful form.
The system we have in Europe is essentially the evolutionary socialist system of Fabian Socialism, rather than revolutionary socialism; where there
have been many slow gradual socialist reforms, such as free healthcare, social housing, and free education in most states; however the Capitalist
establishment and the banking establishment have not been overthrown are have been given virtually a "laissez faire (anything goes)" system where
their monopolies and banks continue to prevail in a Capitalist dictatorship which causes a great deal of war, economic imperialism, the exploitation
of the world, human suffering and impoverishment.
Unfortunately the "model" of what Capitalism is which Marx and the 19th century Communists were attacking has changed somewhat. Modern Capitalism is
now 95% gambling and in the gambling business (i.e., the derivatives market) the total value of all derivatives contracts are now 20 times global GDP;
billions can be made by those with the foresight to predict wars and revolutions, which makes war and chaos much more likely, since they who
premeditatedly plan such events can profit more from gambling on war and the scarcity of resources than from peace and the long term creation of
socialist systems and human abundance.
I expect a more civillized and socialist world will eventually emerge at some point, as a result of dialectical human forces, however the proponents
of the current International Dictatorship of Capitalism appear to be entirely militant and genocidal, and in a nucelar age, there are many
possibilities for future tragedy. Thus I predict future apocalyptic wars, revolutions and genocides will probably be inevitable before the
establishment of the Great Work; the manifestation of world socialist revolution and the creation of economic heaven on earth, the 1000 year
agricultural revolution, the creation of the New Jerusalem and "swords to ploughshares" etc. The Holy CIty will not fall down from Heaven; it will
have to built by human will and it will have to be fought for and defended, and I suspect that rivers of blood shall be required to manifest it;
radical human progress generally always requires the blood of martyrs and tyrants.
edit on 9-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Additional response
edit on 9-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis