Lack of feminine characteristics...

I support the femminist movement. Society is controlled by men and its should be said that women should be able to act however the choose as should men. More feminine men and androgynous gender roles i think is important to society

The feminist movement did nothing to empower women. It gave them the burden and responsibility that men used to shoulder themselves. In the 50's is very normal for a single man to provide for the household. Now you have to people working and two people paying taxes.

This idea that women were somehow liberated is utter BS. It wasn't perfect half a century ago but women were much powerful than they are now. I would say that not all women want to be independent, but the difference is now they are forced to be. Taxes, career, stress, identity issues. Yeah, women are super powerful.

I would like to say it was unfair that women were not allowed in some industry, but now through circumstance they are forced into it. So there isn't really any net gain there.

Also, women have been running the world for centuries by having the ear of any man in power. Look throughout history, most powerful men had a strong woman by their side. But society has been conditioned to think that men are all powerful -give me a break. Tell that to a guy who asks his buddy to go golfing but the buddy says "No. the wife won't let me."

Absolute absurdity.

reply to post by Yeah-Alright


I would say its fine, except...some of them think its "ok" to physically assualt men during thier little fits. Here is the issue with that:

Girl beats the absolute hell out of a guy, because the guy is terrified of what happens the second he puts a finger on her.
Girl calls cops
Guy goes to jail.

Other scenario, Girl assaults guy, guy defends himself. Guy STILL goes to jail.

So if women could control their emotions properly, then i would say this is a great move. But with today's laws and stereotypes, the police will almost always favor the female.

Just my 2 cents...I've witnessed this happen, so its not just a theory.

"...Just like I shouldnt expect every guy I meet to like sports, be able to perform feats of strength and be brimming with testosterone. Just because mum was a gem who kept dad happy and you want a woman just like her doesnt mean you should measure all dates by said standard and just because that chick you admired from afar was shallow and chose a football player with a hot car instead doesnt mean you get to put us all in neat little boxes meant to define who and what we are. Look for/be what YOU want specifically and nevermind the rest. molds are for jello."

Well said! After reading the first page of replies to this thread I was ready to chalk it up to all the basement dwellers on ATS hating on females for not wanting a piece of that. LOL. I am a total girly girl when I want to be, and when I notice I am not getting the respect I deserve, I dye my hair a shade darker. NEVER underestimate females, we will manipulate both sexes with what works, it's the geniuses like myself that have mastered the art of being a full time career woman, wife and mother. Society has nothing to do with me choosing to be submissive or agressive with my gender, it all comes down to providing for my family and self. I am nurturing but can hold my own with my husband, love and discipline my child and take direction or redirect when I am at work. It's balance that matters.

reply to post by wildoracle13

NEVER underestimate females, we will manipulate both sexes with what works, it's the geniuses like myself that have mastered the art of being a full time career woman, wife and mother.

The pendulum is swinging on the female side right now (albeit superficially). In fifty years I expect it to go back the other way. And because of the homogeneity of the genders now I think it will be worse for women in the long run that it has ever been.

That is pure speculation of course.

To sum it up, women were better off when the tricks they used weren't mainstream.

reply to post by rusethorcain


i probably didnt explain it right, but i dont mean an invisible leash thats connected to me (all men) i mean like...

wonder woman without the feminism would be a good example

seriously though, society has made it seem like women have to be slutty like that show desperate house wives. society makes it seem like women have to keep their legs spread open and believe its ok without logically thinking for themselves. society makes it seem like that that is what men want from women, when its not true at all (unless said men are your average jersey shore, gang banging, woefully stupid, 'i care only about money and success!' mofo's...) . for example (and not to sound sexist) but women back in the day were a perfect model of how women should act now (minus the whole wife beating and holding their tongue and so forth). what you would see on mtv and most shows on tv is the opposite (IN MY OPINION) on how women should act. unfortunately though, most of what you see on tv on how women act (even cop dramas. women are so fridged in those) is the only idea of how most girls believe they should act since positive role models now a days are well...looked down upon.

i still screwed up on explaining that...but i tried

reply to post by Juggernutty


and you are absolutely right about that sir...

i had to watch this happen to my dad on multiple occasions...

some occurrences, the woman would beat herslef to make it seem like he laid his hands on them, which he never did.

women have all the laws for them, while men can do nothing but be jailed over and over for doing literally nothing. the same almost always goes for custody over children.

(not saying this is true in all instances)

reply to post by Yeah-Alright

Are they fine with the fact that the females are becoming more aggressive, egotistical, money-minded and less 'traditional' in a way or there are those out there who still value those gentle qualities that in my personal opinion are very much valuable?!

I can only speak for the United States, since there are so many divorces and single mothers raising children on their own these day it is out of necessity if you want to lead a decent life, that takes a decent salary and women have to go after it, it is exactly what men have always done, why not women, it certainly doesn't take away their feminity, just another facet of life.

reply to post by XelNaga


Or you could look at it this way: 1) everything a woman does from how she dresses to putting on a confident demeanor is to gain power/show rank over other females. 2) everything a woman does from how she dresses to putting on a confident demeanor is to attract males.
-Females don't look up to other female wall-flowers. Ever.
-Females don't try to attract men in dirty sweat pants with shaved heads while beating up bouncers.

Atleast this is my observation.

reply to post by XelNaga


It is true the media has a lot to do with how women are portrayed and I agree sometimes they are all sluts and bimbos. Men have stereotypes pushed on them too - King of Queens, Al Bundy,....Also pretty gross.

I got one thing to say on this issue.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
So if women want to be fully equal, they need to act like it. It comes with responsibility not just an attitude.

Saying that, I fully support equality.

I see alot of threads/posts that accuse women of what they are or arent and what they should or shouldnt be, but what are men supposed to be like? And why should it be about what they want in a woman? In the op you said that women in western society were egocentric, money minded, aggresive and bratty (or something like that) but havent men always been that way? All the men I have ever known have.... Thats not to say I believe all men are, like you seem to believe all women are, but for the most part yeah guys have massive ego's, will put their careers above all else, will use force or manipulation to get what they want (esspecially where it comes to sex), and will throw a temper tantrum if the woman he is with knows more about any given topic of conversation than he does.... Or maybe I just havent found the right "man" yet
You know the brave and couragous women who fought for the right for women to vote, who fought for women to have the right to earn and handle their own money/income, for the right for womens independance, would be horrified to discover that in reality nothing much has changed. Sure we can vote, sure we are now "allowed" to have our own bank account and assets in our name, but have things really gotten better for us? In my first real relationship with a guy, I gave him everything and I mean everything, I put up with his tantrums, I did my best not to be smarter than him, I said yes when I wanted to say no, I was finiancially independant and paid for my own contreception even paid half the bill when we went on "dates", but apparently I didnt measure up, the minute I fell pregnant, all of a sudden I was a disgusting, horrid creature, trying to tie him down, that he regretted ever meeting, I havent seen or heard from him since, and we werent teenagers either he was a full grown "man"....... Tell me, if I am immature and superficial, and aggresive then what is he? Is this how men are supposed to act?

I am not a lesbian, but I hope like hell my daughter will be, because I dont ever want her to go through what I have had to go through in my life because of men, what my mother has gone through (an abuse too disgusting to mention here), what one of my best freinds has been through..... Sure not all guys are like this, but where are these supposed different guys huh? Where are they?
Anyway, I probably sound bitter and self-pitying, but Im not. I am happy with my life right now, I have a wonderfull child, a nice home, Im learning to grow my own vegetables, and I finnally understand that I dont need to fit the standards "men" think I must fit in order to be happy and fufilled, it will take me awhile to heal and be open to try dating again... But I am happy.
Women are not the problem in this world, Im sorry but we are not, the problem is that we cater to the powers that be, the problem is that we let them dictate what "roles" men should play and what "roles" women should play, the problem is that we choose to see men as different from women, the problem is that men want women to be different from them..... Girls just want to have fun

reply to post by Rhebefree


Yep, girls just wanna have fu-un.

I think a number of posters here might benefit by not dumping their personal frustrations on strong self-confident women, and instead, should re-direct their energies to tackling their real problems.

Is the environment making you infertile?

Remember, we're all in this together.

reply to post by soficrow

strong self-confident women

That is a paradox. Find any strong successful woman in business or industry and I will show you some major psychological issues. Not just in the women but in the men too. Like another poster said, women for equality have to take responsibility,

Women think because they have climbed the corporate ladder they somehow reached some pinnacle point as whole. Newsflash, it's lonely on top.

To say that in general they can be more reckless and more self-serving than before is true. But if I asked my dad how much time he spent with his Mother as a child, he would say, "When wasn't I with her?"


That used to mean something, btw.

So yes, women have gained the respect of the workplace and lost the respect of the home. I can't remember for the life of me the last girl I dated who knew how to cook, or cooked often but that was something my Mother prided herself on. And it was a respected form of labour.

reply to post by JonoEnglish


You always respond in way that we all can relate to.........very maturely said!

Just to point out, because I don't think it was brought up yet.


You guys do know that the CIA helped fund the Women's Lib Movement, RIGHT?

reply to post by Yeah-Alright


Actually the exact opposite is true...the wearing of the chador or hijab is to cover up for the nasty stinky dirty hairy manlike women.

Originally posted by movetovanuatu
Yeah, I think females in modern western society are definately becoming more confident and egocentric, i don't think it's got everything to do with being female though, i think if you oppress any group successfully for long enough, they will either become timid, or rebel. I am of the firm beleif that we are all potentially the same regardless of race, sex or ability, the only thing that seperates us is how we choose to act. But i don't like the way things are going, i am male, and now it seems that there isn't a single female on earth who still beleives in positive values, and that get's me really upset. I'm sure i am very wrong about that but it's how i feel..

Anyway, it's not people being assertive that i have a problem with, it's when people disrespect themselves and each-other by acting like animals.

edit on 7-3-2011 by movetovanuatu because: I sounded silly

We have plenty of positive values, they just don't match the abusive idea that women should be weak willed and do as their told.

Originally posted by Xiamara
I support the femminist movement. Society is controlled by men and its should be said that women should be able to act however the choose as should men. More feminine men and androgynous gender roles i think is important to society

There are no genes determining purely feminine or male characteristics. Men use to wear pink and purple as purple was a royal colour, now if a man wears purple he's labeled gay. Times change as do social norms. its natural, its a new method of thinking. There is nothing wrong with men being more feminine or women being more masculine or holding the same values. We are all the same and the sooner we learn this the sooner we can all get along.

edit on 7-3-2011 by Xiamara because: Went on ATS before my morning coffee

Society is not controlled by men. Society is controlled be a select group of elites, both men and women, who use the feminist agenda to nefarious ends.

What has the "feminist" agenda actually done for us? Made it so men cannot wear pink or purple anymore? The agenda has made things worse, not better. It has destroyed the family unit. It has created generations of bitter, fearful, jaded, lonely, unfulfilled narcissistic women. I hardly see that as empowering. In turn, these women raise their daughters to be vain, and raise their boys with disdain. Those boys then grow to men who have little respect for women, abusers.

To say that there are no male or female genes is patently false. Women do not have a Y chromosome.

The blurring of gender identity is deliberately destructive social engineering and unnatural. It's a shame that women feel that being a women is shameful.

reply to post by wildoracle13


Or maybe there all just a bunch of control freaks because whether you look at the ones who use abuse or the ones who are more aggressive women like to control their world. Only women who feel they deserve it get abused because they were abused at a younger age and therefore allows their tormentor to continue. Agressive women know what they want and acknowledge they are willing to do whatever it takes to get it. Some women prostitute themselves because they allow that as well. Bad experiences in from youth have a huge impact on the direction of their lives. I think women are control freaks and thats why men run. Both sexes have their strengths and I believe when the opposites attract and it is allowed to flourish in a natural stable enviroment then amazing things can come from this kind of family foundation.

America is seriously lacking in this area...........but there are still some people who keep it real all the time.

Shout out to one of my favorite posters JonoEnglish!

Originally posted by amazed


We have plenty of positive values, they just don't match the abusive idea that women should be weak willed and do as their told.

Ha! And therein where the conundrum lies. Because if men take women to be weak-willed and do as their told than they are the idiots. Because the overconfidence causes men to underestimate women.

However, if women think they are strong and confident it leaves them open to manipulation.

This all correlates to the ego. And yes, women have been manipulating men for many generations.