Women and Survival.

reply to post by redhorse


I have to say that I am quite confused about your post. Are you for or against? You seemed to have left the issue up for debate. I will tell you this. Women no matter what role we play (and mind you its an important one), if we are not aware of the fact that men are not scary, but an extension and vice-versa, then we are all doomed.

IMHO I dont think that ALL men are looking to get laid, even after "its over" many will not be thinking... well let me get to the next chick. This is a stereotype from movies of doom and gloom. If SHTF, why would we all base our survival on preconceived notions based on a movie or t.v. My mind set wasn't to alarm women, but help to prepare them for the select hive mind group that will be thinking of further destruction as opposed to survival, which I think will be minimal.

We as a race of humans will be thinking of living another day, not how far we can get with a women in the middle of no where that is trying to survive. I have a higher thinking of ALL people, and dont think that this will be a free for all, but there are a few out there that are not looking for the best interest of humanity.

Peace, NRE.

I was homeless for 5 years, and nothing bad ever happened to me. Granted, I lived out of my vehicle, so I had an advantage, too. The -key- is, -stealth- . Invisibility, as much as you can realistically do that. For the younger ones, not walking around oo lookee at me.........
Then you won't need to learn how to be spinning around trying to "shank" as many people as you possibly can. Stop watching those action movies geared towards young male demographics. 'Nikitas'.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Hello,I read your post,and I found it fascinating.I believe that the injustice of the last 2000 plus years has been permitted to happen,so that the human race can become re-aquainted.Now that people from one end of the globe to another are aware of one another,the more heinous aspects of what we call civilisation will crumble and die.As this process takes place,the people who are "married" to certain institutional ideals will go down with them.If survival is a goal for you,then right now,you should be cleansing your spirit of all secular judgement,and learning to listen to,and TRUST your instinct.If you are looking to do this Manless,with children,then you will be put into the position of killing to protect those children,or to feed them.The decision to do so will have to be instinct based.The anti-women forces who founded Western society (ancient Greek homosexual philosophy dudes) knew that to build,expand,and maintain a conquerin power,you HAD TO suppress the natural female tendency to poo-poo any idea that resulted in war,genocide,etc..As a result,most of the things we have been pressured to accept as real are being exposed as the lies they are.This is a time for people to turn on one another as the underpinnings of people's identity crap out,so as a survival woman,you will have the toughest task of all,and that is to keep a clear head about you as others are losing it.You will have to calm children's fears with one hand,and fend off attackers with another.As a man ,I KNOW that a good 95% of all men are going to be 100% useless in a survival scene,along with a solid 90% of women.Never lose sight of the fact that no matter if you sit down or stand up to pee,you are a human being,and all that.LATER,BOB

Originally posted by Elaethyr
Now that I think about it, I believe small, easily concealable weapons such as blades would be very handy, especially for us.

Just a few things to consider: As a tool they’re well worth having but from a self defence perspective, blades are overrated. They’re brilliant in that they may deter someone from attacking you in the first place but that’s a big assumption to make - especially in a desperate “SHTF” scenario - and if a weapon is concealed then it's not going to deter anyone.

In reality, people don’t tend to just fall over and die when they’re stabbed or cut, even if you manage to do it a great many times and in the more "desirable" places. In a good proportion of cases it won’t stop them at all, just start them proper. You may cause an eventually fatal injury, but in the meantime they’ve beaten you to a pulp and have done the same to you.

If it’s a concealed weapon that’s deployed “in-fight” then they may not notice that they’ve been stabbed/cut at all – trust me, adrenaline is a wonderful thing – and continue regardless.

In most places where I see people discussing self defence (armed and unarmed), they appear to be more interested in the options that they perceive to be the most “deadly” as opposed to what is the most effective in reality in the vast majority of circumstances for the vast majority of people.

When it comes to pure self defence, killing someone is incidental. You aren’t really aiming to kill them, you’re aiming to stop them as quickly as possible and take them out of the fight. With a gun, stopping someone asap in the safest possible way (for you) may involve killing them in the process but where a gun isn’t involved, the quickest, safest (for you) and most efficient option is to knock them unconscious - and consider that stopping someone with a knife constitutes a messy, lengthy and extremely unpleasant aerobic exercise.

I personally rate impact weapons far above sharp or bladed weapons. In some circumstances (obviously the most vital if you're relying on them) no weapon will be available and taking the above into consideration, your priority should be preparing yourself for unarmed self defence - including the use of improvised weapons spontaneously accessed from the surrounding environment - and of course self defence isn't all about fighting.

Originally posted by Soshh

I personally rate impact weapons far above sharp or bladed weapons.....

involves lots of force, which favors the larger attacker, requires precision, which may or may not happen, the only true advantage i see is range.


even short blades can disable any attacker quickly, if you know what to hit, and don't require that much force, if you know how to sharpen your knife. it'll be lethal in a survival situation, though, because an immobilized brute will be fair game to even rats. hint: knowledge of anatomy is key, it might even influence your choice of weapon....

i just don't think that relying on inflicting blunt trauma is a viable route for most female survivalists. the first option should always read: Rifle - all else is in truth a bandaid.

greenhouse technology has come a long long way and should be part of any contingency. I live in Northern China and watch farms grow food through winters that are 20 Below zero using simple methods that worked over thousands of years, little more than bundled corn stalks and warm water to maintain year round growing environments within greenhouses. Imagine what can be done with access to technology using solar, etc.

There are a lot of willfully ignorant comments regarding self defense, the value of women / men in dire situation, blah blah blah. This is disappointing given the environment quickly approaching.

The United States is rapidly approaching an economic cliff...the reasons are simple enough; printing money with wild abandon, wasting huge amounts on programs that will never produce, massive corruption in Banking system and government, and general lack of political will to solve serious issues. These problems cannot be solved any longer, they will force radical solutions which will impact social and economic structure in a manner surpassing the great depression.

During the great depression people made do with staples of life; food, alcohol, guns, ammo, gold, silver, and skill sets, used to trade and as currency. If you are currently invested get into natural resources, they will hold value during depressions. Having certain skill sets; electrician, plumber, carpentry, mechanic, nursing, midwife, dental, translation services, canning, brewing, distiller, chemist, etc...will provide added value to your household.


the main point is people should start taking this seriously and consider situation the USA has placed itself in, and the inevitable environment that will occur when markets force economic and social balance again.

Originally posted by SolarE-Souljah

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
or how we are easier to talk to.

lol wut.

hahahahhaahah. Oh that's a good one.

Anyway, truthfully, I think a woman would be a good part of a group survival type of thing...

Let's say there were two males and two females who have agreed to work together to survive. While the men go off hunting, the women can gather.

It goes back to our hunter gatherer roots... So yeah mixed company in a group survival situation would not be too bad.

Just women by themselves.... Well maybe they can talk a deer to death. LOL.

Tellya what. I'll go hunt... and you can stay home and clean, cook, and gather till the cows come home. Then twice a day seven days a week you can go out to the barn and milk those cows. Hows that grab ya???

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I am right there with you! I am so into all of the preparedness ideas. As a society, we should all know that anything can happen at anytime. We have to be prepared for any and all possibilities. As a single woman and a mother, we have to make sure we can protect ourselves and our children. I am currently looking into what type of gun would be the best for me for protection and survival. Please keep me in mind for your idea on all of this.

Good luck, stay safe, and God Bless!
CA

man you people watch way to much tv .
This has got to be the most unreal post i have ever seen.
Ok given a peacfull country wemon would have no problem doing it on her own (wile not intirly peacfull the us)
is a good excample of this .
Haveing said that and that the us is a excample (sortive) even here in the good old us of a woman are domanated at times in one way of another ignore it all you like burn your braws if it makes you feel more in control but in the end it wont stop the inevadable .
Ok so heres the seniro TSHT the dollor finly collapes the goverment stops all checks and welfair of all types state and fed.
4 days go by and the citys are now under marchial law . 9 days go by and gangs are now forming and roving the streets taking what they need and the police and military are out guned and out numbered a 1000 to 1.
14 days have goin by the military and police have collapsed and the gangs have become much more violant in presuit of what they want and are spreading out into the burds and country killing and men and takeing any woman (then killing them ) they can .
6 months have goin by millions have been killed millions more will die by this time except for a few very very few who are holed up someware no one ahs looked yet are now living day by day and any woman cought alone will not be alone after that.
the gangs have takin over the citys and now have strong holds in almost any town u goto and the woman are now once again a 1000 years in the past . I grante if your a woman saying how much of a bad ass you are and how no man will this or that you will find the reality much much different as you can choise fight and die or become a mans property again .
now i know your sitting there right now says no way no how never and tahts easy to do theres no gangs yet and your in one of the very few palces taht you can do what you do.
But if you dont believe me look in most other countrys and see your fate taht will be yours or your daughters once again sooner tehn you wish.
woman are subugated and domanated and made to do what and when a man wants and in mmany places are not allowed even the most basice rights . Dont believe ? just look around and see the truth.
this little exparment in huiman equilty and rights and none segeration was fun but its almost over now enjoy the few years if not nmonths you have left ladys .
How do i feel? I feel its jsut to darn bad this could have nveer lasted as neither of us male of female have grow up enough to do it right anyway .Its has failed and failed badly and that is why there is almost no normal family left in this country .
so if you ask me i will say i wont miss this failed experment of equilty maybe in another 1000 years we can try again and maybe we male and female will ahve grow up enough to do it right next time.
Some how i dought it.

Originally posted by Long Lance

Originally posted by Soshh

I personally rate impact weapons far above sharp or bladed weapons.....

involves lots of force, which favors the larger attacker, requires precision, which may or may not happen

Reality check - Fighting favours the larger attacker. However, a small female with an impact weapon (her hand, for example) can easily produce the force required to drop a man twice her size and I've seen it happen more times than I can remember.

It doesn't require any more precision than a knife does. Aiming for specific blood vessels, organs, connective tissues etcetera, prioritising and attacking them repeatedly or in sequence is far more difficult against a fully-resisting opponent and under massive psychological stress than aiming purely for the large pressure-point sitting on their shoulders.

the only true advantage i see is range.

You missed brain-shake, for starters.

even short blades can disable any attacker quickly

Knives certainly can disable an attacker quickly but regardless of what movies you have seen, it isn't likely to happen, especially if you haven't got the benefit of years of training and actual operational experience. Out of interest, how many times have you disabled an attacker quickly using a short blade and what specifically disabled them on each occasion?

if you know what to hit

In your own words, that "requires precision, which may or may not happen”...

knowledge of anatomy is key, it might even influence your choice of weapon....

Yes I know, and it has. Experience helps as well.

just don't think that relying on inflicting blunt trauma is a viable route for most female survivalists.

Then think again.

the first option should always read: Rifle - all else is in truth a bandaid.

Personally I'd go for a Challenger 2 MBT or a magic wand. Unfortunately, they may not always be available. Similarly, you won't always have a loaded rifle available.

In survival terms men and women with the correct preparation would be equal. As a female myself I often think about ways I would get of a situation or if I had to face my fears. The physical attributes women particularly have is stealth and agility but like men any physical attribute has to be worked at. Women in general are deemed resourceful and intuitive both which help in survival situations. Again tho everyone is different, in a life and death situation even the most high maintenance person may find survival instincts brings out qualities they never knew they had.

Originally posted by Soshh

if you know what to hit

In your own words, that "requires precision, which may or may not happen”...

if you get that hit, would you rather have your enemy startled or incapacitated.

precision is required for both, if you don't have it, well... the knife is more powerful and it's not that hard to cut tendons and muscles, hitting the right spot has got to be more tricky.

MBT? well, it depends on what is available, i guess, a rifle is an available item in many countries, so why not use it?

Originally posted by Long Lance

Originally posted by Soshh

if you know what to hit

In your own words, that "requires precision, which may or may not happen”...

if you get that hit, would you rather have your enemy startled or incapacitated.

I'd rather have him unconscious, which isn't overly difficult. Being hit repeatedly in the jaw or anywhere on the head or neck with extreme levels of force is not "startling". As I said, adrenaline is a wonderful thing and it can make knife wounds feel only like the force that was put behind them, but its compensation for brain-shake is negligible.

precision is required for both, if you don't have it, well... the knife is more powerful and it's not that hard to cut tendons and muscles, hitting the right spot has got to be more tricky.

A knife requires far more precision to produce the desired effect (complete incapacitation) in reality. What's more it takes far more time on average and requires far more effort. The knife is not "more powerful", its perceived effectiveness is massively exaggerated and the effort required to actually stop someone with a knife is massively underestimated by people such as yourself. It requires the repeated application of technical skills and knowledge to the extent that it is not realistically applicable in a high-stress environment barring, as I mentioned, years of "realistic" training.

Following years of realistic training, a non-experienced person quickly discovers that a real opponent does not respond to a knife attack or knife wounds in the way that they envisioned and if they are sensible then they will revert to hitting the "off-switch" - head - with an impact weapon.

It isn't difficult to "cut" tendons and muscles on a compliant training partner in a training environment with a training knife, a dummy or in a scenario in your imagination. Again, how many times have you done this in reality and what happened on each occasion?

I have met countless self-styled "experts" who spout this kind of stuff in a similar fashion, a far more convincing fashion even, yet have never pressure-tested their so-called "deadly" skills and when faced with the "live" training drills that they aren't used to, they look like they have never picked up a knife before and end up on the floor with a headache.

A long time ago I was in your position, I would get a complete stiffy over knives and I trained extensively in their use. When I entered the real world however, it changed my views drastically and I suggest that you do the same. I still love knives, but I am aware of their limitations.

MBT? well, it depends on what is available, i guess, a rifle is an available item in many countries, so why not use it?

Main battle tank; I was taking the piss. My point is that you will not always have the most desirable object conceivable to hand, especially in a situation where the world or your country has gone down the pan.

Originally posted by Soshh


It isn't difficult to "cut" tendons and muscles on a compliant training partner in a training environment with a training knife, a dummy or in a scenario in your imagination. Again, how many times have you done this in reality and what happened on each occasion?

I have met countless self-styled "experts" who spout this kind of stuff in a similar fashion,

how do you suppose physically weaker adversary should escape grappling? hitting face/eyes/etc sounds nice until you understand that they are also out-ranged...

now how would you supposed to inflict damage on what's most certainly within reach, namely arms and hands? bare hands? a club? a blade can do that and no amount of adrenaline will help once the cables are cut. having a tool is always better than lacking it, provided this is a fight to the death anyways, which is in line with the survival theme in this forum.

PS: I'm not an expert and i doubt i came across as such but you can bet that most people would rather have cutlery for SHTF than a paleolithic club. metal blades won, iirc...

Originally posted by Long Lance
how do you suppose physically weaker adversary should escape grappling? hitting face/eyes/etc sounds nice until you understand that they are also out-ranged...

It depends on what the specific form of grappling involves, but consider that if someone views grappling as desirable when facing someone without a knife, how much more desirable does it become when a knife is involved and when their opponent is considerably weaker?

now how would you supposed to inflict damage on what's most certainly within reach, namely arms and hands? then bare hands? a club? a blade can do that and no amount of adrenaline will help once the cables are cut. having a tool is always better than lacking it, provided this is a fight to the death anyways, which is in line with the survival theme in this forum.

In the grappling scenario that you envisage, you're not going to be "cutting any cables" because the knife is being controlled first and foremost. How far do you reckon they’d get before the knife is taken away from them or they’re knocked unconscious by a free hand?

Having a tool is better than lacking it as long as you're actually better off with that tool; would you say that you're better off with a crisp packet - and retaining and using it throughout - than not? And again, you will not always have the most desirable object conceivable to hand.

PS: I'm not an expert and i doubt i came across as such but you can bet that most people would rather have cutlery for SHTF than a paleolithic club. metal blades won, iirc...

I'm sure that most people would prefer to have cutlery, given that most people haven't got a clue what they're looking for whilst hunting "silver bullets" to compensate for their laziness or lack of stature or strength or will etcetera. The best blunt instrument that you can think of is a paleolithic club?

You really need to get out of this mindset mate, I've laid out all of the points that you need but it doesn't appear to be working. My epiphany came from an attacking context, but perhaps instead of coming from the perspective of someone who has a knife in their hand, maybe you should look at this from the perspective of someone who is facing an attacker armed with a knife. -

Far more people survive knife attacks than those who are killed, even people who have sustained horrific amounts of damage can and do survive. What are these untrained individuals doing right? What are the pros of their position? Given the benefit of prior study and training, how would you respond to a knife attack? Grab hold of a friend, buy the necessary equipment and spend a few days/weeks looking into this.

Another point is that those who are generating these statistics are almost invariably thoroughly unwholesome individuals who are psychologically capable of going through with a knife attack - or at least believe that they are beforehand. Have you considered how traumatic it is to attack someone with a knife?

People assume that because they've seen plenty of movies, or have done plenty of training or have a good imagination, they are mentally tough enough to go through with killing someone with a knife – obviously assuming that they are also physically capable of doing this. These are people who respond to the question of "could you kill someone?" without hesitation and answer "yes" as if it is a ridiculous question and an assault on their machismo. When asked how many people they have killed and they answer "zero", it begins to sink in.

In the same way that sex is generally quite different in many aspects (whether better or worse) to what you imagined it to be like as a virgin and there are things that you maybe hadn't considered before the event, killing or trying to kill tends to be in reality very different to what you imagine it to be like as someone who hasn't gone through it. Also, while a virgin imagining sex tends to imagine everything that they can, a person imagining killing someone, especially in conjuction with training, tends to ignore certain aspects of the act - either because they have seen heroes killing faceless henchmen in films and videogames a few too many times, or because there are many things that one simply doesn’t want to consider because those things are absolutely awful.

In my experience, women tend to have considerably more trouble with the psychological as well as the physical side of things, in comparison to men. When faced with truly realistic knife response drills, no man that I have met has had any trouble admitting that it was an extremely traumatic experience. A surprising proportion of them - armed and unarmed participants - have had to stop mid-drill simply because it was too much and people are on hand to break the drill especially because of this.

Many women even have trouble with the idea of repeatedly smacking someone in the head and when faced with this, just how viable does knife attack become for an untrained and inexperienced female population? Don't use the argument of "they'll do it when their life is in danger" because before adequate training was introduced, many men at war refused to kill and died because of it.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I think one of the scariest things about TSHTF is knowing there are going to be desperate, determined Moms looking to feed their children. I'd rather face an armed man that is looking for food & supplies. I have no doubt the Moms will be the fiercest force to reckon with. Size, weight, age, no matter. Moms will mess you up bad, leave you wishing you hid out in the trees. No beard? No mustache? Run away!

reply to post by Soshh


you're bringing psychology into this, while this thread is in the survival section, therefore geared more towards shtf scenarios, as far as i can tell.

therefore, this shouldn't primarily be about muggings and the point still stands, better weapons will improve your odds. if someone is uncomfortable with killing or maiming an opponent in combat, maybe death appears more comfortable to them, but the whole discussion belongs in the philosophy forum, imho.


in a survival situation, people will need to improvise and maybe hunt, so they'd better have some tools on them at all times. with some luck, these will double as useful weapons, which kind of blunt force impact weapon would you suggest? heavy steel wire? a collapsible baton? nunchaku? just curious.

Originally posted by Long Lance
reply to post by Soshh

 

you're bringing psychology into this, while this thread is in the survival section

And? What the hell are you talking about? Given that psychology directly affects anyone in a high-stakes combat situation, and pretty much anything else for that matter, this is incredibly relevant. I’m astounded as to why after reading all of the above (if you actually have), you do not understand this.

Before I “brought psychology into this” I suggested that you do something; are you going to make an effort or not?

therefore, this shouldn't primarily be about muggings

Who mentioned muggings?

better weapons will improve your odds.

Yes, better weapons will.

if someone is uncomfortable with killing or maiming an opponent in combat, maybe death appears more comfortable to them,

If you have not killed anyone, then you do not know whether you are psychologically capable or not; fact. If you have not stabbed someone to death or to complete incapacitation, then you do not know whether you are psychologically capable or not; fact.

The idea that the average woman can stab someone to death, is quite frankly ludicrous. In practice, it doesn't work out so well.

in a survival situation, people will need to improvise and maybe hunt, so they'd better have some tools on them at all times. with some luck, these will double as useful weapons

Yes, that was my point to begin with. A knife is an excellent tool, but its usefulness as a weapon is greatly overestimated by people such as yourself who have never actually used it as a weapon and have blind faith in its perceived effectiveness because you’ve seen too many movies.

which kind of blunt force impact weapon would you suggest? heavy steel wire? a collapsible baton? nunchaku? just curious.

Heavy steel wire can be fashioned into an effective weapon, as long as what you have made results in something that fits the criteria below then go for it.

It depends what kind of collapsible baton it is. Most are not heavy enough and the ones made out of heavy-gauge springs are pathetic. For example, an instructor in the US called Massad Ayoob was once asked to do a presentation in defence of someone in court who was accused of carrying one of these with the view to killing someone with it. His presentation involved him smacking himself in the head with it as hard as possible with negligible effect and he demonstrated how something like a larger form of flashlight is far more effective by breaking bricks with one.

Nunchucks are another classic example of a weapon that is percieved to be deadly, purely because of Bruce Lee movies, when in fact it is hilariously inept as a weapon. You would be infinitely better off with the same stick with the chain removed from the equation.

A good blunt instrument would be a ball peen hammer; an heavy metal bar or pipe; a pick-axe handle; the list is too long to write down. Many smaller objects with some weight and a robust striking surface that can be held in the hand and retained during repeated strikes to the head are worthwhile, it is also worthwhile for them to be thrown as long as you are going to pile in with your hands immediately afterwards.

Instead consider that any close-in weapon must offer a distinct advantage in stopping power (not only wounding power, as the difference is enormous), a robust striking surface so that an attack is repeatable, and range (which doesn’t last for long anyway). Range is expendable but the other two are not; when in doubt stick with your hands.

im no woman; but i think in a situation where the current system of lifes maintenance ceased: a woman would do good by practicing good hygiene.

In order to survive must serve the Creator