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NWO & LUCIFER

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posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by stevcolx

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Nevertheless though, he was right about the Bible not being a lie. As for Christianity, that's all it is, a big lie! About 99% of it anyways. The true church of God is ISRAEL. The Jews. Not those ones in the middle east, I mean the REAL JEWS. The Bible says the real Jews will only be gathered at the 2nd coming of the Lord.. so that automatically knocks those Jewish imposters out of the picture.

If you people want me to post scriptures to back all this up.. just ask. Cause it's in there alright.


You can't back anything up with scriptures. It's just like saying you can back it up with verses from the bible or the qu'ran. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddism........They are all the same religion just different stories. As far as God, Allah, Satan and Lucifer are concerned they are all names of symbolism. They don't exist in reality. They are just symbols of the stories.

Scriptures and verses are just made up stories...........God doesn't exist. Get over it and lead your life the best you can!!


Alright, ask me anything. It's in the Bible. Prove me, try me, and i'll give you the scriptures. You want me to prove those aren't the real Jews? Yes or no?




posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Falcifer
Regarding the OP's request it is my opinion that there is more than one so-called "truth" (what is the TRUTH anyhow).

But at the meeting of the minds here on ATS the following might be a one of the viable answers to the OP's question.
A disclaimer is in order - the opinions and ideas expressed below might very well not be shared by this author but have been discussed by many people on this forum.

Mankind must be enslaved by the demons/reptilians/aliens/angels because it is only through man and his spirit/soul (psychic abilities), blood (blood magick) and flesh (human sacrifice) that these deities can exist in the causal/3rd dimension and not be trapped in hell/acausal/4th dimension/astral dimension.

To this end (the enslavement of man) they (the demons/reptilians/aliens) have assumed human form and instilled themselves and their families/blood lines into the top echelons of power (whether it be religion, politics, military or financial).

Only through blood magick (consumption of human blood), human sacrifice (consumption of human flesh) and death (consumption of the human soul) are they able to hold human form and not become "sick", but current changes in the earth are making this much harder. Transubstantion anyone?

The ultimate goal is to "free" the rest of the "old ones" still trapped on the "other side". Only man with his spirit (psychic abilities) can pull the old ones to our dimension - other demons/reptilians/aliens are not able to do this.

The trinity of man (soul, blood and flesh) is much more precious to these beings than all the world's (and maybe even the universe's) gold, diamonds, money and any other resources.

Man was hunted and enslaved for aeons across the universe. Our history continued from the time we inhabited Mars, was chased to the moon and subsequently ended up colonising Earth.

If my take on what is discussed here is flawed or lacking please feel free to correct me.


You are right on point, my friend.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by KAOStheory
reply to post by vjr1113
 


I like the spelling "lucifarian". I know it was a mistake but the cross between "luciferian" and "rastafarian" is hilarious, and probably accurate for a lot of people...all you out there with a Bob Marley poster hanging next to your Led Zeppelin poster.

im not a luciferian, im an atheist.

that one guy who quoted my bible quote, can you please explain the other bible quote? thank you. im not a bible scholar and i admit that one particular post was out of context... but the one that follows?

if it's in the culture to kill ppl then that culture is wrong and it has to be changed, because it was the culture at the time, doesnt mean it was morally correct, therefore god was mistaken, and had to correct himself?


Originally posted by 5StarOracle
The fact that Satan is gaining strength is not because he is getting stronger, Man has grown weak willed and his lusts have increased, thus granting him this noticable increase.

Also Man has turned away from God, I dont care what your belief system is, or if your a non believer for that matter. Because its true for all.

I see alot of untruths spoken here about God by many, those with no faith at all are so easy minded I feel sory for them even, whlie feeling sick at the same time as I taste thier delusions and peer into thier minds eye. Most of them are so overjoyed with themselves, are quite like how Satan himself was and how he infact did outsmart himself. They should be horrified at the pride they feel as they deny the Allmighty.

Also while it is meritous and fruitful to ponder the mysteries of God, Becareful not to fall into the delusional trappings of self enlightment. Until you understand what you think and what you are told in your own mind and from whom it came, You could easily insnare your own mind in doing so. Most every mystery of God will always elude you because you are unworthy and arrogant in the start of your journey and thus have polluted your path. Humble yourself before God allow him to speak to you instead, no I should say shut up and listen, as he does speak to ALL.

sorry I could go on but would stray further from topic, guess im just saying its our fault.



faith is absolutely not good, its the excuse to believe in something for no good reason, talk about living an illusion...
edit on 12-3-2011 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by vjr1113
 


True that vjr.


Faith is a system invented my the more clever criminals within our species, to justify the actions they take in the name of Greed.

Id rather thump a Sports Illustrated, than that disgusting little hate manifesto called the Bible.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by vjr1113
 


Wow I don't see how you can construe that as talking sh@t. I pretty much agree with you. I was just poking fun at the two faiths. I make spelling errors on here all the time because of my phone keyboard. Wasn't bustin yer b@lls on that either. I saw the word spelled that was and Ras Trent popped into my head, that's all.



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by KAOStheory
 


i loose my temper easily when it comes to religion, ill edit my post. and yes i do have zepp posters on my wall



posted on Mar, 12 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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And I know that wasn't a great contribution to your thread, for that I appologize, just trying to throw in some humor. So I'll say this: I recently saw a quote on someones signature here that said something to the effect of "man never more joyously does harm to his fellow man than when its done in the name of God". Wish I could find it, sums it up nicely. Anyone who says "all life is precious, no abortion for you" while engaging in war and supporting the death penalty should be institutionalized.
edit on 12-3-2011 by KAOStheory because: spelling-see? just did it.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by SunTzu22
 


Thank you. Don't place a bet on this horse though.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by vjr1113

Originally posted by KAOStheory
reply to post by vjr1113
 


I like the spelling "lucifarian". I know it was a mistake but the cross between "luciferian" and "rastafarian" is hilarious, and probably accurate for a lot of people...all you out there with a Bob Marley poster hanging next to your Led Zeppelin poster.

im not a luciferian, im an atheist.

that one guy who quoted my bible quote, can you please explain the other bible quote? thank you. im not a bible scholar and i admit that one particular post was out of context... but the one that follows?

if it's in the culture to kill ppl then that culture is wrong and it has to be changed, because it was the culture at the time, doesnt mean it was morally correct, therefore god was mistaken, and had to correct himself?


Originally posted by 5StarOracle
The fact that Satan is gaining strength is not because he is getting stronger, Man has grown weak willed and his lusts have increased, thus granting him this noticable increase.

Also Man has turned away from God, I dont care what your belief system is, or if your a non believer for that matter. Because its true for all.

I see alot of untruths spoken here about God by many, those with no faith at all are so easy minded I feel sory for them even, whlie feeling sick at the same time as I taste thier delusions and peer into thier minds eye. Most of them are so overjoyed with themselves, are quite like how Satan himself was and how he infact did outsmart himself. They should be horrified at the pride they feel as they deny the Allmighty.

Also while it is meritous and fruitful to ponder the mysteries of God, Becareful not to fall into the delusional trappings of self enlightment. Until you understand what you think and what you are told in your own mind and from whom it came, You could easily insnare your own mind in doing so. Most every mystery of God will always elude you because you are unworthy and arrogant in the start of your journey and thus have polluted your path. Humble yourself before God allow him to speak to you instead, no I should say shut up and listen, as he does speak to ALL.

sorry I could go on but would stray further from topic, guess im just saying its our fault.



faith is absolutely not good, its the excuse to believe in something for no good reason, talk about living an illusion...
edit on 12-3-2011 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)


Faith is most definitely good, but faith is good only to a certain point. If you have faith, and yet have no works, you have dead faith, like billions of Christians. They think they can just have faith and get into heaven. They think they can sin all they want and still get into the kingdom. Not going to happen. James 2:14-24 you must have works to go with your faith.. meaning you must keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. If you can do all that, you will make it into the kingdom. Now do you understand why Jesus said few were going to walk the narrow path? When I say few, I MEAN FEW.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by KAOStheory
And I know that wasn't a great contribution to your thread, for that I appologize, just trying to throw in some humor. So I'll say this: I recently saw a quote on someones signature here that said something to the effect of "man never more joyously does harm to his fellow man than when its done in the name of God". Wish I could find it, sums it up nicely. Anyone who says "all life is precious, no abortion for you" while engaging in war and supporting the death penalty should be institutionalized.
edit on 12-3-2011 by KAOStheory because: spelling-see? just did it.


Since the Christians claim to follow the New Testament, the true followers of God are not supposed to war against other people. If anything, they are supposed to take persecution if it comes to them. If they are about to be delivered to be stoned. They have to go through with it. It's just part of walking the narrow path. Persecution is going to happen if you live godly. If you are not being persecuted, you are not doing something right. But, i'm not going to lie, the Old Testament does call God a "Man of war". Cause God helped the Israelites destroy many wicked nations. The Hittites, the Amorites, and the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, God allows whoever he wants to win wars. It's in his hands. God allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to besiege Jerusalem and take Israel into bondage because of their wickedness.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by TheIsraelite777

Originally posted by KAOStheory
And I know that wasn't a great contribution to your thread, for that I appologize, just trying to throw in some humor. So I'll say this: I recently saw a quote on someones signature here that said something to the effect of "man never more joyously does harm to his fellow man than when its done in the name of God". Wish I could find it, sums it up nicely. Anyone who says "all life is precious, no abortion for you" while engaging in war and supporting the death penalty should be institutionalized.
edit on 12-3-2011 by KAOStheory because: spelling-see? just did it.


Since the Christians claim to follow the New Testament, the true followers of God are not supposed to war against other people. If anything, they are supposed to take persecution if it comes to them. If they are about to be delivered to be stoned. They have to go through with it. It's just part of walking the narrow path. Persecution is going to happen if you live godly. If you are not being persecuted, you are not doing something right. But, i'm not going to lie, the Old Testament does call God a "Man of war". Cause God helped the Israelites destroy many wicked nations. The Hittites, the Amorites, and the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, God allows whoever he wants to win wars. It's in his hands. God allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to besiege Jerusalem and take Israel into bondage because of their wickedness.


Why would your "god" need to allow anything?

Isn't the physical realm just a manifestation of his "will"?

Oh, and how did he allow these attrocities to occur, while he is inside his golden box?
I am pretty sure you don't get many bars in there....



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by SunTzu22

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777

Originally posted by KAOStheory
And I know that wasn't a great contribution to your thread, for that I appologize, just trying to throw in some humor. So I'll say this: I recently saw a quote on someones signature here that said something to the effect of "man never more joyously does harm to his fellow man than when its done in the name of God". Wish I could find it, sums it up nicely. Anyone who says "all life is precious, no abortion for you" while engaging in war and supporting the death penalty should be institutionalized.
edit on 12-3-2011 by KAOStheory because: spelling-see? just did it.


Since the Christians claim to follow the New Testament, the true followers of God are not supposed to war against other people. If anything, they are supposed to take persecution if it comes to them. If they are about to be delivered to be stoned. They have to go through with it. It's just part of walking the narrow path. Persecution is going to happen if you live godly. If you are not being persecuted, you are not doing something right. But, i'm not going to lie, the Old Testament does call God a "Man of war". Cause God helped the Israelites destroy many wicked nations. The Hittites, the Amorites, and the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, God allows whoever he wants to win wars. It's in his hands. God allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to besiege Jerusalem and take Israel into bondage because of their wickedness.


Why would your "god" need to allow anything?

Isn't the physical realm just a manifestation of his "will"?

Oh, and how did he allow these attrocities to occur, while he is inside his golden box?
I am pretty sure you don't get many bars in there....


In Matthew 24, Jesus outlined a number of signs that would happen prior to his second coming. Many of the things he described are happening. Famine, Pestilence, Earthquakes, MILLIONS of false prophets, false christs, Wars and rumors of wars. All of this stuff has to happen. And it's going to get worse and worse until the great tribulations happen. the great tribulation is going to be a time that's never been nor will ever be again. And little do these Christians know, they are going to be here too during the tribulations. Jesus never taught a rapture. You cannot find that in the Bible anywhere. They have been deceived, and I guarantee you when it comes time for them to choose to take the mark, or be killed, more than likely most of them are going to take the mark. All because they trusted in a doctrine that man invented. God is going to give his SAINTS a way out. But only his saints, and only those found in the book of life will be delivered. It's up to me to let people know what's going to happen, and what to do.

I have a pretty good idea on what's going to happen. Because I know the Bible, and I know the IIlluminati.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by SunTzu22
reply to post by vjr1113
 


True that vjr.


Faith is a system invented my the more clever criminals within our species, to justify the actions they take in the name of Greed.

Id rather thump a Sports Illustrated, than that disgusting little hate manifesto called the Bible.


o dang, At first I thought you were talking about the new secular religion that all seem to blindly follow, science.
Funny too!
At one time science meant something diferent than the way it is used and interpreted today. Since it has been raised as a standard to compete with religion it's adherants forced it into the sphere of religion.
Todays science is funded and for the most part driven by philosophies seeking validation.

When they talk of science in public today they usually mean the secular definition where it defines their secular religion.
Faith is essential in this religion.
Now, I love science. Everything became so subjective that truth became a metaphor with dual meanings for when you use the term.
Just look at how people that have no spiritual discernment WHATSOVER and BRAG about will be the first to bring Biblical scripture into the mix and attempt to quote it and translate it for all of us that DO HAVE SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT. Isn't that basicly crazy? And watch how they DEMAND they have it right and those of us that actually study it to find truth (notice the significant difference? The presupposition that one begins with? 1=search for truth, 2'nd=search for contradictions)
pick up a phone book and instead of looking for the phone number of a friend instead try and prove it is inaccurate.
Leave out the area code perhaps and just read the 7 numbers and make the call. If you get a wrong number is the phone book at fault?
No you are because you set false parameters and with a head strong fervor stayed with your error every time getting wrong phone number after wrong phone number simply becvause you never started with the correct protocol and simply convince yourself you are correct.
And to help your cause you have the enet to quote others that fell in the same hole.
But I also like how you insist that we all follow your protocols in cherry picking and interpreting and ignore our spritual connections and blessings because you got the wrong number.
I guess it helps you once you gave up trusting the phone book, to always have access to information to tell you what the phone number is...or even better, just connect the line for you ;-)

wow, I think all of that made sense too!

Kewl stuff! Fun figuring out how things are designed. I too have faith but not in relious science nor do adhere to their high priests as being infallible. Venture from there and you enter religion and seek that first lie, you are as gods.
So, for those of us that do have spiritual discernment we do not understand what you call faith.
That is not the definition we have because it isn't the one that the secular religionists use in defense of that secular religion called "science"
Our defintion is this and always has been "Faith is the evidence of those things unseen" (in that spiritual context, not the secular, I know, it's confusing)
using secular definitions to superimpose your own beliefs onto the spiritual is basicly lazy and poor communication. That should help with the confusion why you do not understand why we don't see or accept your understanding.
We see it completely flawed from beginning to end.
You start with presuppositions that make no sense. And you never budge. And you can always find someone to quote to help you believe and increase your secular faith. But you begin with admiting ignorance in the spirit and then demand you have it right.
That's just weird!



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by SunTzu22
I do know what going on. check out the books that are on this site, they are easy to read and very interesting.

the rest of the site is filled with stuff that will blow your mind, in a good way.

Lots of metaphysic's that one can understand, pay attention to the book "armageddon conspiracy" as it pertains directly to your questions.

armageddonconspiracy.co.uk


Wow! The link doesnt work for me so I googled it, and I havent read all the stuff on it yet, but wow!!! Thanks for that link! Im almost convinced they are legit, what Ive read so far makes sense, Im just a bit wary of any orginisation that uses the term New world order as a positive - isnt that what the current elite want?? I'll read on and find out more about this group



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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I agree with what your saying and I for one have lived under the watchful eye of religion and i'm tired of it. I don't know whats true anymore and I would like to have some clarity. I for one cast my vote to have someone come out and just tell us what is going on. I would like to read some books if anyone has any recommendations.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by knowledge212
I agree with what your saying and I for one have lived under the watchful eye of religion and i'm tired of it. I don't know whats true anymore and I would like to have some clarity. I for one cast my vote to have someone come out and just tell us what is going on. I would like to read some books if anyone has any recommendations.


anything by Manly P. Hall -



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Faith is most definitely good, but faith is good only to a certain point. If you have faith, and yet have no works, you have dead faith, like billions of Christians. They think they can just have faith and get into heaven. They think they can sin all they want and still get into the kingdom. Not going to happen. James 2:14-24 you must have works to go with your faith.. meaning you must keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. If you can do all that, you will make it into the kingdom. Now do you understand why Jesus said few were going to walk the narrow path? When I say few, I MEAN FEW.


So faith + works= Heaven. Could you please list the works that the thief on the cross performed that got him into Heaven? "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." I don't know what great works he could have performed in the last minutes of his life while suspended from a cross! If that doesn't convince you, maybe this will: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I completely agree that after salvation we're called to make every effort to turn from sin, and we're called to do good works as a demonstration of the fruits of our salvation. But we're not saved by works or by the law. The Pharisees clearly demonstrated that one cannot be saved by adhering to the Mosaic laws.

Back on the original topic, I do love ATS but it always surprises me that so many otherwise open-minded people will totally lose it should someone relate the times we're living in to Bible prophecy. But take this passage for example:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

And this:

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows. "

Never have these prerequisites been fulfilled like they are in our times. I've been a follower of prophecy for decades and for much of that time I really thought the end times were hundreds of years (maybe thousands) in the future. I have been astonished to see the way events have unfolded so quickly in the last 8 or so years, it's straight out of Daniel and Revelation. I really do think Satan is at work in the world and knows his time is short, and that what we're witnessing are his last-ditch efforts to take control.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Faith is most definitely good, but faith is good only to a certain point. If you have faith, and yet have no works, you have dead faith, like billions of Christians. They think they can just have faith and get into heaven. They think they can sin all they want and still get into the kingdom. Not going to happen. James 2:14-24 you must have works to go with your faith.. meaning you must keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. If you can do all that, you will make it into the kingdom. Now do you understand why Jesus said few were going to walk the narrow path? When I say few, I MEAN FEW.


So faith + works= Heaven. Could you please list the works that the thief on the cross performed that got him into Heaven? "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." I don't know what great works he could have performed in the last minutes of his life while suspended from a cross! If that doesn't convince you, maybe this will: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I completely agree that after salvation we're called to make every effort to turn from sin, and we're called to do good works as a demonstration of the fruits of our salvation. But we're not saved by works or by the law. The Pharisees clearly demonstrated that one cannot be saved by adhering to the Mosaic laws.

Back on the original topic, I do love ATS but it always surprises me that so many otherwise open-minded people will totally lose it should someone relate the times we're living in to Bible prophecy. But take this passage for example:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

And this:

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows. "

Never have these prerequisites been fulfilled like they are in our times. I've been a follower of prophecy for decades and for much of that time I really thought the end times were hundreds of years (maybe thousands) in the future. I have been astonished to see the way events have unfolded so quickly in the last 8 or so years, it's straight out of Daniel and Revelation. I really do think Satan is at work in the world and knows his time is short, and that what we're witnessing are his last-ditch efforts to take control.





That's a common misintrepretation. What Jesus really said was ""And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise." We know that's what he was saying because nobody is in heaven right now.

John 3:13 (King James Version)

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Nobody has ever went to heaven. This is Jesus that's telling you this.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (King James Version)

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead don't know anything, cause they are dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

There is NO WISDOM IN THE GRAVE WHEN YOU DIE. According to God, when we die we go back to the dust. Jesus, when he died and resurrected, his physical body went with him. So if people go heaven/hell, their bodies should go with them. We shouldn't have to ever bury them!



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Faith is most definitely good, but faith is good only to a certain point. If you have faith, and yet have no works, you have dead faith, like billions of Christians. They think they can just have faith and get into heaven. They think they can sin all they want and still get into the kingdom. Not going to happen. James 2:14-24 you must have works to go with your faith.. meaning you must keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. If you can do all that, you will make it into the kingdom. Now do you understand why Jesus said few were going to walk the narrow path? When I say few, I MEAN FEW.


So faith + works= Heaven. Could you please list the works that the thief on the cross performed that got him into Heaven? "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." I don't know what great works he could have performed in the last minutes of his life while suspended from a cross! If that doesn't convince you, maybe this will: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I completely agree that after salvation we're called to make every effort to turn from sin, and we're called to do good works as a demonstration of the fruits of our salvation. But we're not saved by works or by the law. The Pharisees clearly demonstrated that one cannot be saved by adhering to the Mosaic laws.

Back on the original topic, I do love ATS but it always surprises me that so many otherwise open-minded people will totally lose it should someone relate the times we're living in to Bible prophecy. But take this passage for example:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

And this:

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows. "

Never have these prerequisites been fulfilled like they are in our times. I've been a follower of prophecy for decades and for much of that time I really thought the end times were hundreds of years (maybe thousands) in the future. I have been astonished to see the way events have unfolded so quickly in the last 8 or so years, it's straight out of Daniel and Revelation. I really do think Satan is at work in the world and knows his time is short, and that what we're witnessing are his last-ditch efforts to take control.





Grace or no grace, you will go to the lake of fire if you are a sinner.

Romans 6:1-4 (King James Version)

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

According to this, we are supposed to walk in newness of life after we come under grace. That means keeping the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. Did you hear me say one time that works alone will get us into the kingdom? NO. From now on, read everything I say.

Romans 6:15-16 (King James Version)

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You either going to keep on sinning till death, or you are going to obey God's law unto righteousness. Your choice.

Romans 3:31 (King James Version)

31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Grace/Faith does not void the law! It establishes the law!



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Faith is most definitely good, but faith is good only to a certain point. If you have faith, and yet have no works, you have dead faith, like billions of Christians. They think they can just have faith and get into heaven. They think they can sin all they want and still get into the kingdom. Not going to happen. James 2:14-24 you must have works to go with your faith.. meaning you must keep the laws, statutes, commandments, holy days, and the faith in Jesus. If you can do all that, you will make it into the kingdom. Now do you understand why Jesus said few were going to walk the narrow path? When I say few, I MEAN FEW.


So faith + works= Heaven. Could you please list the works that the thief on the cross performed that got him into Heaven? "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." I don't know what great works he could have performed in the last minutes of his life while suspended from a cross! If that doesn't convince you, maybe this will: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I completely agree that after salvation we're called to make every effort to turn from sin, and we're called to do good works as a demonstration of the fruits of our salvation. But we're not saved by works or by the law. The Pharisees clearly demonstrated that one cannot be saved by adhering to the Mosaic laws.

Back on the original topic, I do love ATS but it always surprises me that so many otherwise open-minded people will totally lose it should someone relate the times we're living in to Bible prophecy. But take this passage for example:

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

And this:

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows. "

Never have these prerequisites been fulfilled like they are in our times. I've been a follower of prophecy for decades and for much of that time I really thought the end times were hundreds of years (maybe thousands) in the future. I have been astonished to see the way events have unfolded so quickly in the last 8 or so years, it's straight out of Daniel and Revelation. I really do think Satan is at work in the world and knows his time is short, and that what we're witnessing are his last-ditch efforts to take control.





James 2:14-24 (King James Version)

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Faith without works is dead, brah. You have no works, you have dead faith. You have no faith, you have dead works. You need both to get into heaven, like you said at first.



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