The ever-vigilant Foundation for Individual Rights in Education reports that a professor at Citrus College in Glendora, Calif., forced her students to write anti-war letters to President Bush and penalized their grades when some refused.

Professor Rosalyn Kahn demanded that students in her Speech 106, which is a required course, also write to a state senator expressing the same anti-war sentiments. When several students asked if they could write letters supportive of Bush instead, she told them that would not be acceptable and their grades would suffer if they did so.

"While professor Kahn is free to hold and espouse her views on appropriate matters of public concern, it is, of course, absolutely impermissible for her or any professor to coerce students to share her political orthodoxies. This was an unconscionable abuse of classroom power," said Thor Halvorssen, FIRE's CEO.

Since FIRE's intervention, the college has sanctioned the professor and apologized to the students.

That's taking it to far for me.

thats a complete abuse of power and they did right to act against her. I don't know what the course covered exactly but it might have been fairer to get students to write 2 letters - one pro and one anti war and not let those letters leave the classroom. That way the students get an attempt at understanding both sides of the argument and the professor loses her chance to force her political views on students.

i had a disagreement with a few of my teachers at school and i came of worse...

Originally posted by arc
thats a complete abuse of power and they did right to act against her. I don't know what the course covered exactly but it might have been fairer to get students to write 2 letters - one pro and one anti war and not let those letters leave the classroom. That way the students get an attempt at understanding both sides of the argument and the professor loses her chance to force her political views on students.

Arc, you are quite the brilliant one, aren't you. Whether you agree with a position, you should understand it enough to argue the point, elsewise how do you know you understand your own position?

Heard this on O'Reilly or it might have been a similar thing. Anway they had a student of this teacher come on the show. The student was pro-war. She wrote a pro-war and pro-Bush letter. When she gave the teacher her letter she refused to give her the extra credit. Several other students wrote pro-Bush pro-war letter too, and they were not accepted.

Arc your right it is an abuse of power. And I bet the ACLU will go on and defend this teacher.

I will try to find that damn picture and I will post it if I find it.

In 1983, when I was still a student, our professors asked us to protest against the gov and his policy.

Ok, why not. It was funny, barking and shouting in the street when you're a kid, it's allways funny. Until they asked me to wave a red flag who had one of these so horrible yellow star. A red flag, some yellow stars....you see what kind of flag it was...

I torn it and I stamped on it ! HA HA HA HA HA HA.......and a newsreporter took a picture when I was doing this. My parents were happy, but also worry for my exams. Bha, 2 years later I was joining the Army and the NATO.

Originally posted by Abraham VirtueBurn the witch

And then in his own signature:

"...As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguishes it..."

Considering that this apparent "paragon of virtue" has just judged & sentenced to death someone who did naught but to point out a reasonably clear-headed alternative to a blatent abuse of miniscule power, I'd be willing to bet that Allah would indeed extinguish this particular fire...

Can we say, "oxy-MORON?"...I knew we could.



[Edited on 23-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

were they also forced to stamp and send the letters at home or did they just have to write them ?

Sounds just like a normal exercise in expressing opinions that arent your own. A classics of debating societies.

And the pro war establishment was so self-righteous as to stomp that old english democratic tradition ?

She should be fired.
nuff said.

Of course she should be fired. But don't expect that it will happen.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
"Petty power corrupts completely out of porportion to the amount of real power"

I SAY GIVE HER CHINESE WATER TORTURE AND THEN BURN THE WITCH.

Originally posted by JediMaster
Arc your right it is an abuse of power. And I bet the ACLU will go on and defend this teacher.

Is it an abuse of power for a teacher to make an assignment?
We're talking about a college-level speech class, which probably involves debate, public-speaking and speech writing...

So maybe the teacher picked the wrong topic to use for an assignment but on the other hand what could be more on topic for a class going on today?

Anybody who is taking this class in the hopes of one day being a speech writer or a publicist or whatever will at some point in their career have to write a speech with a message they don't necessarily agreee 100% with.

What message is it sending when they refuse an assignment from a teacher?
It says, I can't do this job because I am unable to seperate my personal beliefs from my professional duties...

Do you think all of Bush's speech writers believe 100% in everything they write for him? Sure, they're in his camp but it's crazy to think they aren't just 'doing their job' regardless of personal beliefs at least some of the time..



And to start a different argument, would this have been a big deal if the teacher asked for pro-war arguments? seeing as how that's patriotic and all....

discuss

Quango you point out a valueable thing, but it serves to no end your point.

That is, "People will have to write about things they do not necissarily agree with 100%".

That is the fundamental flaw, though not the only flaw, of Democracy.

People no longer stand completely behind what they believe in, but rather are forced for money or other reasons, to accept only a portion of their views, so that they can make ends meat.

They should write nothing that is not in their opinions, or understanding.

If someone disagrees with Bush, in one way, but not another, then they should not be asked to write stuff that supports both ways.

It is this that slowly gnaws at freedom, like termites, until the beam breaks.

Originally posted by quango

1) Is it an abuse of power for a teacher to make an assignment?

2) And to start a different argument, would this have been a big deal if the teacher asked for pro-war arguments? seeing as how that's patriotic and all....

1) Are you sure that you have read correctly ?

" When several students asked if they could write letters supportive of Bush instead, she told them that would not be acceptable and their grades would suffer if they did so. "

2) She had to ask for both. Pro and anti. Not only * anti * or not only * pro *. But she didn't. That's where she did a mistake. She did another mistake when she told them that their grades would suffer if they did so. She's biased and she have to be punished for what she did !

For MadScientist :

May I bring the gazoline and a lighter ?

Quango, she is'nt letting the pro-war students write supportive letters to Bush. That is against what this country stands for. That is like saying UP cannot say anything supoortive of the USA, but someone else can absh to USA to Heaven! As a treacher you cannot have one side in a debate or an assigment. In America everyone's opinon should be said, and not just one side.

She is acting like a Facist.. This is not Iraq or Nn.Korea where you can say only one thing. It is very wrong to force someone to do something they do not belive or not allow someone to not let someone discuss or support somehting they belive in.

First, does anyone know if these letters were actually mailed? Or was addressing it to Bush just a frame of reference for the students?

I will say right now, that if the letters were to be actually mailed then THAT is wrong. Otherwise she's guilty of having poor judgement, not of being a fascist.

Or is every teacher who handed out an unpopular assignment a fascist?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
2) She had to ask for both. Pro and anti. Not only * anti * or not only * pro *. But she didn't. That's where she did a mistake. She did another mistake when she told them that their grades would suffer if they did so. She's biased and she have to be punished for what she did !

This was an Assignment - nothing else. If these kids can't tell the difference between something they have to write to complete an assignment vs. what they actually believe... well, that's not the teacher's problem.

Imagine this - Anyone in the US has probably had this asssignment at some point in their education:
Write a paper explaining how democracy works and why it's important for people to have a voice.

"Mr. Quango, I don't really think democracy works.. is it ok if I write a paper on anarchy instead.?"

Well, Jimmy, your grade willl suffer...



ok, that wasn't the best example
Still, the only reason this was a big deal is because of the sensitive topic.

Anyway, every teacher is biased - and the students feel it the moment they walk through the door.
What the teacher talks about more than other things.
What books have been selected for the course. (esp. in english-type classes)
What textbook is being used when the teacher has the choice.
How much time is devoted to which topics..
How they grade essays.
What assignments are chosen.
and so on and so on

" This was an Assignment - nothing else. If these kids can't tell the difference between something they have to write to complete an assignment vs. what they actually believe... well, that's not the teacher's problem. "

Ok, here my assignment.

Write a post where you explain why you are pro-GWB and * anti-anti-war protestors *. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him ( GWB ) and if you are an anti-war protestor. If you don't do it, your grade will not suffer, but your credibility, YES !

Show us that you believe in what you wrote !

After all, it's just an assignment, right ?