Without God, would you still care about the well being of others ?

With or without, I tried to found the reasons behind some "advice" given in the Bible. To better understand, I had to imagine the world as it was when it was written.

That's how I realised that in order to convince people to be good at the time, fear had to be used. It had the advantage of maintaining group cohesion. I also realised that some advice, like condemning homosexuality, had more to do with health than morality, as did circumcision. Hygiene as we know it came much much later.

As a child, the stories from the Bible helped me develop my sense of morality. As an adult, I decided that with or without God, I'd stay a caring person. Unless I had to defend myself, I would never willingly hurt anyone.

If you were sure that there wasn't any god or hell, how would you act in society ?

P.S.: Have it occured to you that God is maybe testing your heart instead of your faith ?

christians are mostly greedy hypocrites.. have you seen the parking lots of most churches on sunday? mostly new cars. for the people who "follow" jesus to say they are living like jesus are NOT.

would jesus have a 401k?
would jesus even have a bank account?
I thought GOD will take care of them, why do they not give every penny to charity?

God has nothing to do about my care for others well being.. its the feelings inside that get me to care about others well being... So... next question

man cannot fathom "god". its beyond his human mind.

Originally posted by Vio1ion
P.S.: Have it occured to you that God is maybe testing your heart instead of your faith ?

when i ask christians and other believers that, i usually get a response similar to "it's both." teaching that "if you are good in your heart, it doesn't matter if you believe, if there is an afterlife, you will go to the better one" would be better than, say, waging the crusades or jihad to purify non-believers.

Religion never has been about getting people to be good. It was and is about controlling and herding the masses.

The vast majority of people in the world are already "good". They want to live their lives peacefully, prosperously, and with abundance for them and their families. They have no interest in harming or taking from others. And religion was not needed to make them that way.

And whether or not there is a God. I personally value all life.

ETA: I'm not so sure God is testing anyone.

reply to post by Vio1ion


God does not make people care about each other but over the years "God" has been responsible for setting some basic guidelines man was unable or unwilling to set for himself..

Not to say the basic tenants or commandments were perfect.
There was a period of time when incest was not considered a crime. It was perfectly OK for a father to sleep with one or all his daughters. I will have to research it a little to find out who and in what period but over some time this became not only discouraged but taboo.

Taboo essentially meant you might still do it, but you had better not tell anyone you do.

Without "God" or a God per se to capture the attention of the people, and issue the directive....
I think people would still love family members (some perhaps to a most unhealthy extent) and many of their relatives or their clan, but I do not think "man" would have any love, empathy, or tenderness for strangers.

To me the purpose of all religion (admittedly it has been corrupted to mean the opposite) is to teach earthlings one thing. Love and acceptance for others.

reply to post by Vio1ion


I clicked on your thread because I like the title.

But for me, I have to separate the word "God" from all organized religions and all texts such as the Bible.

For me God is an infinite unifying energetic mind that links all that exists and ever has existed and ever will exist.

I believe there is a relationship between God as I have just described it and caring about the well being of others. I think that to the extent that we are aligned with - in snyc with - this entity God that unites us all - we do care about the well being of others instead of only caring about ourselves. The more aligned we are, the more we express ourselves in a caring way to the people we come into contact with face-to-face, and, to the world in general, such as here on the internet, with our typed words.

reply to post by Klassified


which is why i prefer to believe in "doing good" rather than a religion.

but, whatever works, i guess, as long as one's not actively harming anyone for their religion.

i came to a similar realization with the OP.

i don't believe in the biblical "heaven" or "hell". Instead i believe the message was "somewhere you wanna be in" and "somewhere you really, really don't".

then you can apply this to the idea of "sin" as well. you don't get "sin". "sin" just means "something that kinda damages you in a way".

trying to teach people to "do good, just because it's good" was kinda difficult. back then, they'd be like, "but this other religion says if i do good i get 72 virgins! and you want me to do good for nothin!"

Or let's put it this way, when you're kids, your schoolwork get graded, if it's really good, you get a sticker as a reward. But as you develop and get older, you no longer want a sticker, you start to score for higher grades for the better of yourself, and by that, you have outgrown the sticker.

Religion was back then, but we should have known better by now.

I hope you find this useful.

Religion doe's not justify one's actions..If you are kind at heart, It will show in your personality..If there is one person in the world I can not trust..It is a overly religious person..Not that there is anything wrong with the idea, or concept of religion..That is your own personal choice.

You see it's simple.. Religious folks talk from there god..Were non religious folks tend to talk from there heart...Who would you trust?

Human emotion is something that is hard to express in words..There is only one way to know the true emotions. of another person...Look into the eyes. The eyes tell the only truth.

reply to post by Vio1ion


You wrote:

["If you were sure that there wasn't any god or hell, how would you act in society ?"]

I'm sure, that there isn't any christian 'god' or a 'hell', and from that knowledge I act exactly, as I do.

On one of those 'merit-lists' so popular amongst the 'holier-than-you': I don't steal, I generally don't lie' (there has been a very few exceptions in my 65+ year life though), I do above-average charity, I follow laws and regulations; I help people. I support secular, egalitarian, liberal democracy actively.

I don't drink so much, that I have to curse my son, so he becomes racial inferior, because he has seen me drunk and naked (Noah-Ham); I don't drink so much, that I have sex with my daughters (Lot); I don't make bets with any 'devil', resulting in thousands of innocent deaths ('god', 'satan', Job); I don't torture or burn people, because they happen to disagree with me (inquisition); I'm not a supporter of censorship (bare tits or tolerance of homosexuality); I don't start minor or major ideological wars or crusades; I'm a moral vegetarian, an environmentalist, ecological farmer and animals' rights supporter (none of it militant).......

So I'm ooooh so good.....

But that's not REALLY, what you wanted to ask about, was it? You maybe wanted to ask, if I've been 'good' ON YOUR TERMS.

Unfortunately christians disagree so much amongst themselves (and with a lot of non-christains also), that your 'morality' isn't uniform. It's something associated with your specific doctrinal interpretation.

E.g. from the typical literalist, fundamentalist evangelist perspective, I have been a rather bad person, because my social responsibility 'only' has manifested in mundane activities. I have not pushed my holy opinions on other people, I have not told them, that they are 'sinners'; I have not suggested, that they pray, I have not told them to repent; and I'm not scaring the weak and gullible to believe, that Harmageddon is due any time. I have not a invented signs-and-wonders prophetology-system where angels and Jesus are seen in the sky every time an unusual cloud turns up, the end-of-days when a president sneezes, neither have I distorted standard science (or 'satanic' science for that matter), so it fits with your pre-determined answers.

From THAT perspective, I have ofcourse been a 'bad' person. Was that what you wanted to hear or eventually say yourself, from your double-bind OP?

reply to post by bogomil

From THAT perspective, I have ofcourse been a 'bad' person.

From THAT perspective, I should be ranked in the top 100 of sinners, then.

I hate those marauding packs of atheists roaming the country, undertaking unspeakable acts of immorality.

That ethics/morality/conscience is not possible without religion, is one of the oldest yarns spread by religious leaders to keep followers in line. It is used to scare people that without god, their children will join the marauding packs of atheists roaming the country, undertaking unspeakable acts of immorality.

Sorry, got to go, being an atheist I can't help myself undertaking unspeakable acts of immorality.

reply to post by Vio1ion


Sorry, reading your OP again, I realise, that I missed a central word; consequently my answer to you was un-necessarily critical.

I apologize.

reply to post by Vio1ion

If there were no god, no hope for an afterlife, I would certainly change my methods. My needs, the needs of those I care about, would justify the destruction of any obstacle, any person or property, without hesitation or remorse. The goal becomes the moment and nothing more, to live limited moments in comfort and happiness.
Starvation would not be a trigger, mere hunger or discomfort would make a person in posession of food an obstacle to my happiness, like a blade of grass I must step on to grasp an apple.
I asked a similar question a few months ago, I believe it was one of my first threads. Most who replied said they would do the right thing and treat people with kindness, I hope they were lying because they would not last six months in such a world.
You are standing in a field holding your starving child, an old man holds a bottle of milk and refuses to give you some. You love the child and know it will die without food, you do not know the old man, there will be NO CONSEQUENCES AT ALL if you take the milk, who leaves the field?

reply to post by mithrawept

What's up with that avatar?
Is that a tooth with wings attached to a helium balloon? Not being rude, just curious as I have not seen that image before.

Btw, I was not endorsing religion in itself. Just its usefulness to control the people when books were scarce and expensive. Lessons were more easily learned through storytelling when schools were practically non-existant.

My question was mainly adressed to adult believers to determine their behavior without faith or fear of a superior being.

Originally posted by Trublbrwing
reply to post by Vio1ion

 

If there were no god, no hope for an afterlife, I would certainly change my methods. My needs, the needs of those I care about, would justify the destruction of any obstacle, any person or property, without hesitation or remorse. The goal becomes the moment and nothing more, to live limited moments in comfort and happiness.
Starvation would not be a trigger, mere hunger or discomfort would make a person in posession of food an obstacle to my happiness, like a blade of grass I must step on to grasp an apple.
I asked a similar question a few months ago, I believe it was one of my first threads. Most who replied said they would do the right thing and treat people with kindness, I hope they were lying because they would not last six months in such a world.
You are standing in a field holding your starving child, an old man holds a bottle of milk and refuses to give you some. You love the child and know it will die without food, you do not know the old man, there will be NO CONSEQUENCES AT ALL if you take the milk, who leaves the field?

I belive, this says more about your personal character and whatever cultural context, you're brought up in and are used to, than about how many of us would react to your hypothetical situations.

It's quite possible, that your distrustful misanthropy is a result of too much exposure to religious indoctrination on how 'helpless' we are on our own.

reply to post by bogomil

Hopefully you will never find yourself on that field with me and my "misanthropy" as my religious indoctrination will not be present.
Hyposrites such as yourself need to look within to see what motivates them, my honesty should not come as a shock to your senses. How much money have you given to the poor this week? How many visits did you make to a hospital or senior center? Did you offer a ride to anyone walking in the rain or offer your jacket to someone who appeared cold?
When your actions speak louder than your words, spoken or typed, you may judge me. Until that day I recommend you remain silent on this subject.