The world really is getting better and better

reply to post by eMachine


Its true that they can no longer sustaing them selfs, I always thought of them as children who gerw old, and still playing their old games, and now that their children are in power, like Obama, and The Russian president Dmitry Medvedev, with Putin on his side, are the yonger generation and are sowly trying to fix the mess left behind.

For the original post, that happiness comes with the necessities(well thats what most think of it) shoes, cars, WATER, FOOD, and how you spend your money on it, if those things were to be cut off from everyone, in most places people wouldnt hande it so well. The green parts might even spread to america and south america, depending on how the humans deal with the situation, do they wanna fight over it blindly, or work together to build and even rebuild.

Doomsday, thats what it is about, that no point of return, where the forces that be, and human kind are forced to make a decsision. Doesnt matter where the red is, or green, its about the earth, and how much more # she can take from us.

Originally posted by pisces77
Speaking as someone who rents a home, doesn't own (purely by choice, but even tho i am not looking for a pre-built home, we are now looking to purchase some land as close to the middle of nowhere as possible, simply because I feel that is the way we can become more self-sufficient ), who drives a car that is 14 years old and am about to purchase another new-used car with money I have saved because I choose to not be in debt, who plants and grows food in her own garden because I know that my open-pollinated seeds will be worth more one day than money itself, who has ONE (YES folks, that is ONE) tv in her household (that happens to be ten years old -- and not a 'big screen' deal because I do NOT believe that the television should be the focal point in the home) despite the fact four humans live in it and two are children, and who for the first time in her 34 years is seeing a cohesive and consistent upswing in the consciousness & spiritual level of the humans on this planet, I say the OP is right on!

FOLKS, please understand that STUFF is not what is going to, or will ever, make you consistently happy. Instant gratification, maybe. but true happiness? NO. So gas prices, the housing market, food costs, all of this is forcing us to get our priorities straight. This needs to happen. We are way too materialistic and really truly delusional in thinking that more money & stuff is actually what this life is about.

There is a transition happening, and for those that are still numb and zombified by the sense gratification techniques of this world it will be a painful transition, as we are seeing. However, for those that are focused, awake (truly awake), and have realized that the interconnectedness of this universe cannot simply be tossed aside, it is a welcome transition that will finally cut through the illusions that have been keeping us blind for so long.

Fantastic post and star for joo!

I live in very much the same manner. I will NEVER buy a new car, i bought a very modest home and work on it when time and money allows. I purchased something very modest in case of loss of employment or a downturn in the economy, i would still be OK. I too have only one television, and it too is a regular, tube screen. I purchase nothing until i can buy it all straight up front, my home being the one exception.

I learned a lot about mechanics. One reason is i have an interest in it, and another reason is a car and the costs associated with it amount to the second biggest expenditures we as people have in our lives. Learning to do your own labor saves tens of thousands over the years. Hell, id almost wager it would save you 6 figures over the course of a lifetime.

If my children want a cell phone, they will learn to save and buy it themselves.

Self-sufficiency is a lost art. People borrow and borrow and wonder why they have no money or rage at the banks for charging interests they knew damn well they would pay BEFORE they took said loan or racked up their VISA or Mastercard.

Newsflash! You dont need the best SUV on the block. You just need something that runs.

Originally posted by sinohptik
So, instead of bickering and "showing" people how they view the world is "wrong..."

Why dont we figure out how to continue to make things better for the one perspective, or start making things better for the other perspective. both have their validity, period.

if one is actually trying to accomplish something with this thread beyond the typical bickering, i fail to see it. I have been posting several times with the same "what now?" question.

If we are going to inevitably continue to grow, what direction will that be?

Discussing this would be significantly more productive than proposing ones own "yea" viewpoint to be correct and accurate as opposed to the "delusions" of the "nay" side. We get that in most threads here anyway, no need to add to it..

Perhaps i have misunderstood the intent here. I will say this thread has clearly shown the issue of bickering between the dualistic sides leading to absolutely nothing being done. Over ten pages now of "im right!"..."no, im right!" The car could be going towards a cliff, but its occupants will be more concerned with arguing whether the road up to that point was beautiful or ugly.

There's no point looking for solutions when the problem itself cannot be agreed on. And bickering isn't the right word, as it gives the impression of an issue being irrelevant or non important. People don't "bicker" about important issues.

By all means I'm sure many would appreciate a thread, but this isn't the one. Infact a thread asking how the world can be bettered would be hugely popular I'm sure. If you're serious, why not make it? To put things in to context, several members are discussing the state of the world and who is and isn't to blame for the positives and negatives. You're criticising people for that discussion. Who's being the least productive here?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Great post, well laid out and very thoughtful. That being said some people just don't believe that things are actually getting better.

I think we could make vast improvements around the world if we dismantled the UN and restaffed it with effective leaders that would be more concerned about mankind then concerned about where to make dinner reservations in NYC. The only way that these idiots will go to Africa is if they can get a first class seat and stay in a 4 star hotel.

You might think that I sound melodramatic but I have done considerable work at the UN, the World Bank and the IMF. The dinner reservations, 4 star hotel and first class airline seat is how these people think. "What is in it for me attitude" at these organizations is prevalent and standard operating procedure. It is only the exceptions that have the worlds best interest at heart.

When we have recent examples of genocide in Africa and the UN does not lift a finger, and the worlds population turns a blind eye then we all become guilty. We have organizations that have been chartered to deal with these types of situations, we should hold them accountable. If they can't fix problems then they are the problem and they need to go.

The standard around the world could grow exponentially if these organization, (UN, NATO) did even just a little of what they are suppose to do!

reply to post by NadaCambia


what is the purpose of such a thread then? if it is to locate those problems, well see where it goes... in my perspective, the topic of conversation does not dictate whether or not bickering can occur. Take a look around this board, and your world. This concept of division is present in many shapes and forms, and has even been used as a form of control for centuries. All time is spent "proving" the other wrong, leaving none for doing anything else.

I hear what you are saying loud and clear though, and ill leave you to it

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by B.Morrison

I wanted the whole game to change. I don't like the game. I don't want it.

-B.M

So here we are. I love the game. You don't. What next?

what's next?

what's next is that I say good bye & good luck as I bow out of this thread because I don't have time or energy to waste debating with someone who so far has only replied with childish one liners that deflected from the points I initially raised about the topic.

Peace be with you,
-B.M

I do have to admire your optimism OP, however misguided and ridiculous it may seem.

I believe in order for me, personally, to attain such a heightened and inflated view of this jacked up world it would have to involve nitrous oxide and a full frontal lobe labotamy.


You can poop in a punch bowl and call it rainbow sherbert if you like, but that doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
The world is getting better and better. Hmm well kind of, for every thing that is changed and uplifted another problem takes its place, and the world is getting better in small leaps and at a snails pace.

You are right about the "snail pace". It apparently took many thousands of years to get the wheel or to learn to make fire. Those must have been harsh winters before we could make fire!

Anyway, it reminds me of how the word Evolution already implies progress/improvement. Since humans eventually learn from their mistakes, the more time passes the more improvement can be expected.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Things are really not getting better, its totally opposite.

By all means look at your statistics and feel better, maybe some of you gullible people like that.

But really, you all that think that we are heading on a good trip is delusional.

Originally posted by spy66

But in the future medicin will be hard to come by unless we can find a replacement for fossil fuel energy. So that we can keep the current rate of requirement for resources to create medicin. We have not figured that one out yet.

When you are talking about the future you are entering the realm of speculation. I dont know whats going to happen in the future.

But in the past, when one resource ran out, humans, through creativity, have always found ways creative ways to keep their status quo. This is psychological: Once humans have reached a certain level it takes a lot of effort to get them off the level they have stabilized at. (And that is, by the way, why it also takes a lot of effort to get the poor upward).

There are thousands of alternatives to fossil fuels ready and waiting (if fossil fuels really do run out...which is also controversial).

Originally posted by skylightsintheillions

No, I haven't been to Africa, but I know that traveling the countries you did is far more advisable than say, Congo, Ivory Coast, Liberia. So please, don't try and demean my point of view because I haven't traveled to Africa. Your going there doesn't say much for the countries you didn't visit. That's much the same as visiting Peru in S. America and making a statement about that entire continent!

What a generalization you are making!

The original line of argumentation was that the public generally views Africa as a negative place full of starvation and war because that is what is MAINLY shown in the news-media.

My counter-argument to that was that there are many things in Africa and about African people that are very positive.

Then you tell me that my views are "demented", personally attack me and accuse me of making "generalizations" and that I "should have travelled to the worse places".

That is, you are distorting what my views are so that you can place a counter-argument to a point I never made.

Originally posted by pisces77
FOLKS, please understand that STUFF is not what is going to, or will ever, make you consistently happy. Instant gratification, maybe. but true happiness? NO. So gas prices, the housing market, food costs, all of this is forcing us to get our priorities straight. This needs to happen. We are way too materialistic and really truly delusional in thinking that more money & stuff is actually what this life is about.

Agreed. The only way we could become unhappy through owning less cars is if we believed our happiness is dependent on that. But its not. Those are nice gimmicks, but they are not what life is about.

reply to post by Skyfloating


There is no denying that over the centuries those in the civilized world have seen an increase in their health,life expectancy and standard of living..

The problem most have with your thread is that you credit TPTB with the improvement..

IMO, TPTB have held back advancements and merely turned us into slaves of the corporate system..
Now we are seeing a decline in living standards of the working class..

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Government and elite, those are what most refer to as TPTB. That's who I'm refering to as TPTB. It's a relative term. Those who control our nations and have those with the financial influence to do so outside of government, by influencing government or breaking laws at will.

Which government are you talking about? A politician is a commoner, who through a series of Education and Training, hard work and study, gets elected by commoners to perform duties on their behalf. His job regards legislation, the infrastructure of a country, its treasury, it's relation to other countries.

A Government is a group of politicians who have assumed responsibility for the more general organizing principles of society, the citizenry, communities, states. It discusses and passes decisions on the affairs of the community, takes care of adminstrative tasks and is the basis of modern civilized society.

The elite are the group of people referred to as leading in certain aspects of society, be it the monetary elite or the academic elite or the sports elite. These positions are attained by merit, by hard work or by inheritance.

The term "powers that be" is a vague and inconclusive colloquialiasm used when one is not certain of the workings of power or who is in power. "TPTB" can also refer to natural forces, deities, powers of the market or anything else that exerts force or effort. In this venue it is usually used as some substitute for ultra-paranoid beliefs about evil machinations unseen.

TPTB are enemies of freedom because they act in their own interests, and not the interests of the common man.

How do you define freedom? Freedom from what? Why do you feel like you are in a prison? Is it something that happened to you in childhood?

Do you not act in your own interests? What else do you hate about people acting in their own interests? Did common people not elect them to perform various tasks?

The Civil rights movement was a reaction by the people of the land, to immoral and backwards views and laws being pushed by TPTB.

The Civil rights movement was orchestrated by the intellectual elite in order to quicken societal change. It was the common man among which there was a violation of those rights.

This is found throughout history. Lets look at America, why was America created? Because those living under the Empire were treated like rats and seventh-class citizens. Did TPTB support America? No, they waged war against the infidels who even dared to question their existence.

America was founded by secret societies and the intellectual elite to quicken progress and freedom in the world.

Ignorance is bliss.

No its not.

I'm dissapointed that you ignored every request I made to provide evidence for your view.

Its not my job to provide more evidence than I already have in the OP. Its your job to provide evidence proving that the world is getting worse and worse by showing how

* its health went down

* its life expectancy went down

* its overall wealth went down

* its education went down

* its literacy went down

Prove that those things have decreased over the last centuries.

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Did you leave your 5 star hotel?

I dont use 5-star Hotels when in Africa. Thats only a part of your pre-conceptions about optimistic people.

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by B.Morrison

I wanted the whole game to change. I don't like the game. I don't want it.

-B.M

So here we are. I love the game. You don't. What next?

what's next?

what's next is that I say good bye & good luck as I bow out of this thread because I don't have time or energy to waste debating with someone who so far has only replied with childish one liners that deflected from the points I initially raised about the topic.

Peace be with you,
-B.M

You didnt ask any questions or put anything out there for him to really respond to. You simply said you didnt like "the game" and said you wanted to change it. But did you give any constructive plans as to how you would change it?

So ill bite. Its easy to say everything is all wrong, but its hard to actually provide a real solution. So what is it you would do to change the game?

Originally posted by Reflection
I agree, no problems are solved by constant rants. Problems are solved when we understand what the root of the problem is and take action to solve it. However, when there is so much profit to be made from problems, it really slows our progress as a society.

People just love the drama.

I appreciate your optimism and you may be right that we, as in the whole world, are better off than we were in the past. I hope the arrow's pointing up. I hope that all of this struggle is a natural process of our evolution. However, I'm not going to gauge our progress by comparing to the past. I think that's a very inefficient gauge. We need to set goals and gauge progress on whether or not we are meeting those goals.

You are very correct. We need to set goals in order to progress. We cant progress by congratulating ourselves on how good we are to the past. But before setting goals, we need to stop bitching and making noise so that we have some time and peace to concentrate on goals.

Take the car for instance. Why in the world are we still driving cars?? We've been driving cars for over a hundred years. 50 years ago we put man on the moon and 10 years ago we put a high tech robot on Mars. But yet, we are still driving cars that constantly need servicing. It's really ridiculous when you think about it. Our transportation system should have moved beyond cars a LONG time ago. We really don't have a transportation goal in place. Our only goal is profit, not problem solving.

Again, you are one step ahead of this thread. I fully agree we COULD have been on craft hovering through the air by now...if we were a little more clear about our goals.

Hopefully when 2012 DOESN'T happen, we will stop relying on prophecy and God to solve our problems for us and we will put the responsibility on ourselves.

2012 is yet another piece of disinformation/delusion of the doomsayer-crowds.. One of thousands of distractions not to get into action to make the world a better place.

There are thousands who are in action for the world. But to make even faster progress it requires more than only a few thousand.

The rest is either sitting in front of a TV screen or a Computer screen, being fed a bunch of useless information.

reply to post by Skyfloating


You should read up on:

1. Exponential growth. en.wikipedia.org...

2. Capitalism.

3. Net Energy. en.wikipedia.org...

4. 1972, the Club of Rome "The Limits To Growth". www.greatchange.org... en.wikipedia.org...

I bet you will see things very differently after. Living in denial is the first sign of despair. After that comes anger than depression.

Originally posted by sinohptik

Why dont we figure out how to continue to make things better for the one perspective, or start making things better for the other perspective. both have their validity, period.

You can only start doing better if you first start thinking better. Action follows thought.

if one is actually trying to accomplish something with this thread beyond the typical bickering, i fail to see it. I have been posting several times with the same "what now?" question.

Thats up for every individual to decide. I am content with the work I am doing in this regard. Its not up to me to tell people what to do.

Perhaps i have misunderstood the intent here. I will say this thread has clearly shown the issue of bickering between the dualistic sides leading to absolutely nothing being done. Over ten pages now of "im right!"..."no, im right!" The car could be going towards a cliff, but its occupants will be more concerned with arguing whether the road up to that point was beautiful or ugly.

What happened was: I posted something that goes against the "common knowledge" of the majority and had a bunch of people attack it. I thereby achieved exactly what I wanted to achieve: To create an Internet documentation of the mentality of the majority, thereby showing why we are not moving forward quite as fast as we could: Its not because of the "powers that be", its because of US. "TPTB" is only a projection when one is too inert to step up ones game. One then blames all the ills of life on those "powers", wanting to "stick it to the man" and bash people who have made it to what is considered "the elite". Unfortunately blaming others for the worlds ills is a surefire way not to make any changes. Afterall, if its "the powers" fault, there is nothing an individual can do about it.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

You should read up on:

1. Exponential growth. en.wikipedia.org...

2. Capitalism.

3. Net Energy. en.wikipedia.org...

4. 1972, the Club of Rome "The Limits To Growth". www.greatchange.org... en.wikipedia.org...

I bet you will see things very differently after. Living in denial is the first sign of despair. After that comes anger than depression.

So by your logic the OP must truely be living in despair?

Funny, he sounds much more opptimistic than you do. Pehaps you think its all an act?

One thing ive learned in this world is there are two types of people. Ones who point the finger at anyone but themselves when things go wrong, and those who take responsibilities for their own lives and happiness.

Of course there is corruption in the world. Of course things can be better. But that was not the OPs original point.

The thing i find amusing is you equate being "aware" with being miserable. Im glad your so aware of how terrible things are. You must be very unhappy.