No Gasoline? No Problem, must read

reply to post by hawkiye


I know what I am talking about, I have a background i physics. Not only that you wont get more energy out of your gasoline. All you are doing is is taking the battery and converting water in to hydrogen. Why not just buy a hydrogen tank. Your battery will lose energy and you will not get more out it than you put into the system. It is basic thermodynamics. If you had taken physics you would know about it.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


So you plan on making every chemical used to create synthetic gasoline out of scratch? If that's the case, I'm very interested in this idea.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by hawkiye

 

I know what I am talking about, I have a background i physics. Not only that you wont get more energy out of your gasoline. All you are doing is is taking the battery and converting water in to hydrogen. Why not just buy a hydrogen tank. Your battery will lose energy and you will not get more out it than you put into the system. It is basic thermodynamics. If you had taken physics you would know about it.

There is a difference between book learning and the real world. If I had a dollar for every self proclaimed physics expert who has told me that WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS doesn't work according to physics I would be a rich man LOL!

This is what happens when you do not know what your talking about because you are to lazy to study and research how these actually work and just read some BS on website claiming they know how they were supposed to work. NO LAWS OF PHYSICS ARE VIOLATED.

There are probably hundreds of youtubes of people who have built these and have them working...

It is starting to smell like troll around here. So I will be signing off this thread since you got it all figured out and know what your talking about being a physics expert and all...

reply to post by hawkiye


Not self proclaimed. A university degree, not a youtube degree like your youtube people have.

reply to post by hawkiye


While I think ethanol might be a good alternative to gasoline in the future, right now, even at a 10% ethanol content in gasoline made today, I've heard horror stories of engine seals and gaskets being eaten away by this stuff. A friend of mine is an auto mechanic who has seen, first hand, the damage that can be done with ethanol.

An interesting thing that she told me, however (yes she is a female mechanic, and very cute, might I add), is that the racing cars of the 30's and 40's ran on ethanol, but that the engines would eventually burn up due to the use of the fuel source. There apparently was a system on board that would flush the ethanol out of the engines once the car shut down, which helped prevent the degradation of the seals and gaskets in the engine compartment, but if the vehicle sat for more than a few days, the fuel tank would be flushed out. With that being said, however, they knew about the corrosive aspects of ethanol even back then. Cars today were designed to run on petrol, and the seals and gaskets were designed as such. Until car manufacturers are convinced that we can get away with complete ethanol conversion, they won't spend the time and research into manufacturing the seals and gaskets necessary to resist the corrosive nature of this fuel source.


I do like the idea of using ethanol though. Just not right now.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Well I found this Interesting Site that describes how People have been using " Wood Gas " in Cars since the 1930's . Seems like a Very Impractical Technology , but it works !
www.lowtechmagazine.com...

Wow! That is so neat! I had heard about this from people who were in the Depression, and knew Germany used synthetic fuel during the war, but I had never seen a photo of the device like that. I have modified my vehicle to get better mileage with an HHO generator and a high energy ignition system. What I am looking for is a plug and play reactor that will run a normally aspirated gasoline engine, preferably a dry cell arrangement. Once this is designed and built, and people begin to install them on their cars, Big Oil will have to take a big step back and decide how to keep our business. I believe Hydrogen to be the fuel of the future, clean burning and efficient, and abundant as water is would be a boon to man/womankind. Imagine how much easier your life would be if you could make your own fuel, and burn it in your car?

I feel the biggest problem we face is suppressed technology, i cannot find the information on the internet anymore (perhaps its suppressed? ) but in talking to my dad about gas, cars, and MPG's, he told me about a guy back in the 80's who modified a carburetor and fuel system on a 70's caddy with a big block, and managed to get an estimated 92 mpg's. though im sure between then and now somethings changed in the way one determines mpgs for that number to be lower today.

and i also heard about a man who found out salt water burned or something like that.

as far as ethanol goes, isnt it made from corn? which would mean that if we went to only ethanol, we would have to have half the country turned into fields to meet our demand. but then again with half the country that way, we would have less road to drive on

then what about food shortages since most of our fields would be used to produce corn for ethanol?

ah well im sure there will be people to refute all that i've said, sitting in Mcdonalds hiding from the Black Hawks makes me too lazy to research and post articles lol

ATTENTION


It is super irresponsible posting information like this and leading people to believe they can make gasoline in their backyard. The reaction described here is insanely dangerous for anyone to attempt without a serious background in Chemistry.

Also, it is absolutely useless.

Okay, it's calling for:

Methanol, as in methyl alcohol, as in methyl hydrate, as in methyl hydroxide. I mentioning the alternative names so you can check out the price of methanol the next time you are at the hardware store. You will see the cost of it which makes this whole idea nonsense.

The equation listed is incomplete. And the fractional distillation diagram shows that there is no way anyone should be attempting to do this at home.

Backyard refinery my ass. It shows in the diagram the distillation of an ether by-product.

For anyone that doesn't know what ether is, it likes to go boom.

It likes to go boom so much that there are dozens of safety constraints when working with it. Not only does it like to go boom, it is so volatile that is boils below the freezing point of water. That is probably why there are professionals distilling our energy products. Forgive me but I'll stick to buying Shell's gas.

reply to post by Kingbreaker


We could Fuel our Cars with Hemp based Oils , but that is a Slippery Slope to discuss here right now .

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Kingbreaker

 

We could Fuel our Cars with Hemp based Oils , but that is a Slippery Slope to discuss here right now .

I side with Peak Oilers Mike Ruppert ; Richard Heinberg and James howard Kunstler: "We are in a concrete s.u.v. up a culde sac without a paddle!"
It's unfortunate we blundered by building our entire society around the "car" (an idea that is unsustainable): oil or no oil:
we don't have the resources to relace our entire fleet with hybrid anythings...it takes a hell of a lot of energy to run a steel plant make steel;ship it.; run an auto factory stamp and weld parts;mold rubber tires etc.
we need to transition OUT of our cars.not bend over backwards to dragging them into a future.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

In the U.S.Gas has about 12 Percent of Ethanol added to it , but your saying 100 Percent Ethanol is not practical because of how most Modern Motor Vechicle Engines are constructed ? Could you somehow build an Engine that would run on 100 Percent Ethanol , say in a Machine Shop ? Not you Personally I mean , but an Inventor maybe ?

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

Look up Flex-Fuel cars in Brazil. If I'm not mistaken they are running an absurdly high ratio of ethanol to gas. Also, there are fully functioning planes that run on pure ethanol. The problem with ethanol is production, as it takes away from food crops. Brazil did a bang up job with it because sugar cane grows well in the region.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Too much time effort, testing, maintenance required. The gas hoses and such dont stand well to modern engines. The ethanol is very corrosive and will eat up the lines and seals. I mean why try to modify a finely tuned engine?

Ethanol is corrosive? Where do you get this idea? It has a neutral PH value.

I think maybe you are confusing the hygroscopic nature of ethanol, which is why anhydrous ethanol is used in engines.

I think butanol looks to be a more viable replacement fuel. I just started researching it a couple weeks ago, and it seems that it can be run in a gasoline engine with no modifications.

Originally posted by g raj
I think butanol looks to be a more viable replacement fuel. I just started researching it a couple weeks ago, and it seems that it can be run in a gasoline engine with no modifications.

edit on 7-3-2011 by g raj because: period, not comma

How would butanol be any different than ethanol. The only way to synthesize it is from ethanol condensation. (Which involves having ethanol -which is already a viable fuel)

Or,

A Grignard reaction involving Aldehydes. So you are going to make it from what using this method? And you are going to use a complex reaction to create something that is no different from an easily obtained solvent through fermentation.

If you have no more indepth info on how this would work it stands as utter bunk crackpotism.

Originally posted by boncho
ATTENTION


It is super irresponsible posting information like this and leading people to believe they can make gasoline in their backyard. The reaction described here is insanely dangerous for anyone to attempt without a serious background in Chemistry.

Also, it is absolutely useless.

Let me refresh your reading skills:

Methanol is very very toxic and can lead to blindness. Do not, I repeat do not work with this chemical unless you have had professional training of working with hazardous chemicals: www.midi-inc.com...

That is what I said and I also posted the MSDS sheet as a warning.

The folks talking about butanol. Yes butanol has a higher energy density than ethanol, but it is still an alcohol and corrosive to the engine. Butanol is better but not as good as gasoline.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Methanol is very very toxic and can lead to blindness. Do not, I repeat do not work with this chemical unless you have had professional training of working with hazardous chemicals:

Have you suffered a lobotomy recently? Number 1: Methanol is not a dangerous chemical. I use it all the time cleaning grease off things. It only makes you blind if you drink it. Warning: Don't drink it. I think that is pretty self explanatory when dealing with solvents.

I was warning people about your crackpot distillery you are suggesting people set up in their backyards that produces a potentially explosive substance DIMETHYL ETHER! You didn't offer any warnings on that, or on the fact that explosive peroxides form if it isn't stored properly.

The folks talking about butanol. Yes butanol has a higher energy density than ethanol, but it is still an alcohol and corrosive to the engine. Butanol is better but not as good as gasoline.

I thought you said you had a degree in something. Do you know anything about Chemistry or are you another self-proclaimed scientist?

Number one, butanol is made through condensation of ethanol. So it doesn't matter what it's energy value is compared to ethanol because it takes more energy to convert it than is already found in ethanol.

And ethanol is a fine engine fuel, it has been used for many years, they have run airplanes off of it and it is not corrosive. The only reason it is not more widespread in use is because it takes are large, large amount of organic material to convert and yes, the energy density is not as high as Gas. But it is a valuable additive, whether we see it as a sole energy source for cars, I doubt it. And there are many reasons to that.


As far as whether we should use Ethanol based fuel or if it is a good idea, I won't comment on it. Great additive.

Anyone is better off getting their gas from a gas station as opposed to taking advice from this quacky thread.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

y.

I thought you said you had a degree in something. Do you know anything about Chemistry or are you another self-proclaimed scientist?

Number one, butanol is made through condensation of ethanol. So it doesn't matter what it's energy value is compared to ethanol because it takes more energy to convert it than is already found in ethanol.

And ethanol is a fine engine fuel, it has been used for many years, they have run airplanes off of it and it is not corrosive. The only reason it is not more widespread in use is because it takes are large, large amount of organic material to convert and yes, the energy density is not as high as Gas. But it is a valuable additive, whether we see it as a sole energy source for cars, I doubt it. And there are many reasons to that.


As far as whether we should use Ethanol based fuel or if it is a good idea, I won't comment on it. Great additive.

Anyone is better off getting their gas from a gas station as opposed to taking advice from this quacky thread.

Yes I do have a degree, which is much higher than yours. Now that we have got that straightened out. I never said anything about it taking more energy to make it. I know that fact. It is irrelevant, we are just talking about making a usable synthetic gasoline in our current vehicles even if it takes a lot more energy than the gasoline requires. I do not care how much energy is required to make the final product. We are not trying to be green here. I dont care if it takes 2x's as much energy to produce a gallon of gasoline as the gasoline is worth. I just care about the final product.

As far as the DME, I should not have to warn about every single chemical, I know it is hazardous. That is why I told people to research up on it and this is an INTRODUCTION.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

It is irrelevant, we are just talking about making a usable synthetic gasoline in our current vehicles even if it takes a lot more energy than the gasoline requires.

1. You are a crackpot for suggesting anyone without practical lab experience try and make synthetic gas in their backyard. Methanol is so expensive to the average consumer the whole thing is pointless. If this is some survival thing going on than teach people how to make Ethanol and convert their cars to run it. But, that of course is illegal, but I'm sure a bunch of hillbillies in their nearest town can teach them anyway.

As far as the DME, I should not have to warn about every single chemical, I know it is hazardous. That is why I told people to research up on it and this is an INTRODUCTION.

You should not have to warn about every single chemical? What are you talking about... You warned people about a fairly benign solvent that you can buy in a hardware store, but you fail to mention a restricted potentially explosive ether?

You are a crackpot, for uttering such nonsense, whatever field of science you are in, you should go back to it. The fact that you posted this on here is not that bad, the fact that you suggest people should try it at home -even though there isn't enough information about it to attempt- is just irresponsible idiocy.

Some responsibility should be taken when proposing ideas like this to people. There is nothing stopping a young person from making a foolish attempt at something like this and blowing themselves up. Granted you don't have the complete information available, but you have been so irresponsibly ignorant on this subject that you should not be giving advice to anyone on the matter.

If you want to discuss this, I suggest discuss it in theory or find a chemistry website to discuss it on.

Some responsibility should be taken when proposing ideas like this to people. There is nothing stopping a young person from making a foolish attempt at something like this and blowing themselves up. Granted you don't have the complete information available, but you have been so irresponsibly ignorant on this subject that you should not be giving advice to anyone on the matter.

Anyone who has taken at least organic chemistry and some chemical engineering courses knows about ether. That is why I said you must have some professional training. I clearly warned. It is not my responsibility to give a warning about everything. Even the water you use in the experiment can kill you. Should I have to warn about that? No. Yes I do have much more information available on the subject but I haven't presented it because this is number one an introduction, and number 2, I have other things to attend to. This is not ignorance. I told people that this was an introduction and people need to research up on this themselves before doing such an endeavor.

Sorry I think you dig into the wrong direction. Your main reason as you mentoined is to run your car while others cant when fuel is out. What do you think would happen when someone hears that YOU have what THEY WANT in YOUR BACKYARD.

Quit that idea because what would happen if your charger, your battery, your ECU and so on breaks? Your sitting on your overweighted useless car. Do you want to drive to the supermarket while others cant? Be informed that when there is no fuel, there is also no fuel for trucks. This means you can drive a thousend times to the supermarket with your 2.5t whatever but there will be no food in there because noone is able to deliver these foods to your store.

Take all the money you would spend and build a buggy-style (because then you are even mobiler than your AWD Pickup truck or whatever) electric car thats hardened against EMP / EMF that you could charge at home with photovoltaik(hardened) or utilize water for fuel. Then move away to a place where you have fresh and running water and pull up a field with your necessary foods. Now you can drive around and point your middle finger towards the other UNDERGRADED fools that they are, while NOT BEING HUNGRY.

IMH-undergraded-O of course