No Gasoline? No Problem, must read, page 2

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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How about Cars running on Moonshine ? Distilled Spirits . Might be to labor Intensive and slow to make Sufficient amounts though . Just an Additive then ?

reply to post by Zanti Misfit

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I dunno bout that. Ethanol has a lower energy density but does make the engine run cooler. If there is an alternative to gasoline, ethanol would be it, but unfortunately all our engines cannot run ethanol. I don't want to modify the veichle, I want to be able to modify the fuel type. I want to be able to take care of my vehicle and provide an unlimited fuel source that I can make myself. But it would be nice if German cars that I like were made these days that ran E100. I will never ever buy american made or asian made.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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In the U.S.Gas has about 12 Percent of Ethanol added to it , but your saying 100 Percent Ethanol is not practical because of how most Modern Motor Vechicle Engines are constructed ? Could you somehow build an Engine that would run on 100 Percent Ethanol , say in a Machine Shop ? Not you Personally I mean , but an Inventor maybe ?

reply to post by Zanti Misfit

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Too much time effort, testing, maintenance required. The gas hoses and such dont stand well to modern engines. The ethanol is very corrosive and will eat up the lines and seals. I mean why try to modify a finely tuned engine? I would not mess around with a BMW engine trying to make it run other things when it runs best with what it is given.

It is a lot simpler to create your own fuel and have a reliable engine than to have an unreliable engine and endless fuel.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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I see . well , Good Luck finding the " Perfect Fuel ' for your unique needs Mr. Pro , Hope you find it soon.......

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Zanti Misfit

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I dunno bout that. Ethanol has a lower energy density but does make the engine run cooler. If there is an alternative to gasoline, ethanol would be it, but unfortunately all our engines cannot run ethanol. I don't want to modify the vehicle, I want to be able to modify the fuel type. I want to be able to take care of my vehicle and provide an unlimited fuel source that I can make myself. But it would be nice if German cars that I like were made these days that ran E100. I will never ever buy american made or asian made.

You are wrong my friend all modern cars can run ethanol without any modification and most cars back to 1986 can run up 50-80% with no modification. With very slight tuning the older cars can run just as well as modern cars. Diesels and jets engines can run ethanol with minor modifications also. There is more power better mileage and the engines last three times as long. And as for modification any car that has a computer it is a matter of buying a module and plugging it in for optimum tuning for ethanol in older cars.

Your methanol idea is interesting but seems cost prohibitive. Most methanol is a by product of the natural gas industry if I remember correctly and expensive. If your talking about making your own then the process is much more complicated then making ethanol. Plus methanol is caustic and hard on engines made of aluminium I don't know if the process of it being converted to gasoline changes that or not?

Ethanol is not caustic and needs no new or experimental technology and can be made in the backyard inexpensively if necessary. Read Alcohol Can be a Gas by David Bloom alcoholcanbeagas.com.... it is probably the most comprehensive book on the subject and well researched and tested. Check the other links in my previous post in this thread too.

reply to post by hawkiye

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Ethanol will eat the rubber hoses and seals of your gasoline engine. Fine go buy a 100K Mercedes and tell me if it runs on ethanol, it will not and you will lose your warranty.

I have a 1998 C280. Back when I first obtained it from the original owner, I was told to avoid ethanol-blended gas

www.benzworld.org...

I drive to Maryland for fillups, I'm near the state line. I use Techron when I have to use blended gas. My car will sputter at startup on that 10% crap otherwise. My gas mileage suffers 10-15% on that ozone saving nonsence too.

www.benzworld.org...

Owner's Manual specifies no greater than 10% ethanol in the fuel/gasoline and no greater than 15% on MBTE.

www.slkworld.com...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by hawkiye

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Ethanol will eat the rubber hoses and seals of your gasoline engine. Fine go buy a 100K Mercedes and tell me if it runs on ethanol, it will not and you will lose your warranty.

I have a 1998 C280. Back when I first obtained it from the original owner, I was told to avoid ethanol-blended gas

www.benzworld.org...

I drive to Maryland for fillups, I'm near the state line. I use Techron when I have to use blended gas. My car will sputter at startup on that 10% crap otherwise. My gas mileage suffers 10-15% on that ozone saving nonsence too.

www.benzworld.org...

Owner's Manual specifies no greater than 10% ethanol in the fuel/gasoline and no greater than 15% on MBTE.

www.slkworld.com...

edit on 6-3-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

Ethanol will not eat the rubber hoses and seals of any car after 1986 etc. THAT IS METHANOL. Like I said everything you have heard negative about ethanol is wrong. Your owners manuals are wrong. They have perpetuated these myths unknowingly. There is a growing number of people running their cars 50-100% ethanol and yes some of them Mercedes with no problems. The internal combustion engine was originally designed to run on ethanol not gasoline. Now who would have a vested interest in perpetuating lies and myths about ethanol hmmmm? Do your homework friend....

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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Why not go beyond using fuel and find a better way to power vehicles,etc?

We need FREE ENERGY, not another variation of the SAME OLD THING!

The problem with the whole free energy thing is the natural forces of the universe has already got to all the free energy and used it before we could. If there was any energy stored in simple mechanical or physical acts, that we could release, then the universe would have already released it billions of years ago.

Mater and energy tends to settle to the most stable state. You have to do complex things to release any energy that is available. And that energy is usually a result of two of the last energy generating forces in the universe. Fusion and fission.

The light we use, the oxygen we breath, the energy we harness from running streams, the oil we pull from the ground……. Is all a result in some way, of two forces in the universe. Fusion and fission. In the sun, and in the earth’s core.

The only chance we have at truly vast quantities of energy is direct matter to energy conversion, or matter sublimation. Where we discover the technology to breakdown the building blocks of atoms into pure energy. That technology is currently out of our reach. And I can tell you, it probably won’t be simple.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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In the U.S.Gas has about 12 Percent of Ethanol added to it , but your saying 100 Percent Ethanol is not practical because of how most Modern Motor Vechicle Engines are constructed ? Could you somehow build an Engine that would run on 100 Percent Ethanol , say in a Machine Shop ? Not you Personally I mean , but an Inventor maybe ?

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

Of course it can Brazil does it:

Brazil aggressively developed cars that operated only on 100 percent ethanol. In 1979 the Fiat 147 was the first modern car to run on pure ethanol. By 1988 almost 90 percent of all new cars manufactured in Brazil were E100 (alcohol only) cars. However, an ethanol shortage in early 1990 caused a major downturn in the demand for E100 cars. In 1990, only 10 percent of the new cars were E100.

Figure 1. Ethanol Car Manufacturing in Brazil (percent)

Flex-fuel vehicles were introduced in 2003. These vehicles can run on 100 percent ethanol, 25/75 percent ethanol/gasoline blend (the 25 percent minimum ethanol mandate) or any combination of the two. Today more than 70 percent of the new cars sold in Brazil are flex-fuel as shown in Figure 1. Consumers have 49 models to choose from. Flex fuel vehicles have electronic sensors that detect the fuel blend mix and automatically adjust the engine combustion. The production of E100 cars, popular in the 1990s, has virtually disappeared. The remaining 28 percent operate on the mandated E25 minimum blend. There are no light vehicles running on pure gasoline.

Seventy percent is the generally accepted tipping point of whether consumers purchase ethanol or gasoline for their flexible fuel vehicles. In other words, if ethanol price is less than 70 percent the price of gasoline, they will purchase ethanol. Anything over 70 percent and consumers will purchase gasoline. The need for the discount is due to ethanol lower energy level per gallon than gasoline. However, the prices of gasoline and ethanol vary independently of each other. So Brazil’s flex fuel vehicle program means that consumers have discretion in the combination of gasoline and ethanol they purchase. Midsummer is the sugarcane crush season. In July of 2008, the price ratio ranged from a low of 52 percent in Sao Paulo to a high of 69 percent in Porto Alegre. By contrast the ratio in Jan. 2008 ranged from 54 percent in Sao Paulo to 73 percent in Porto Alegre.

Because high ethanol blends have a low vapor pressure, starting in cold weather is a problem. This is one of the reasons why the U.S. maximum blend is E85. So a small secondary pure gasoline tank is installed for starting in cold weather. An improved flex fuel motor installed in 2009 models will eliminate this problem.

Brazil has 33,000 gas stations offering pure ethanol side-by-side with gasoline. By comparison, the U.S. has about 1,500 stations distributing E-85 ethanol, mostly in the corn-belt. Federal taxes on gasoline are higher than ethanol. States provide similar incentives. To receive an operating license, all fueling stations must provide an ethanol or ethanol-blend pump.
To provide perspective on Brazilian ethanol prices, during the first six months of 2008, ethanol sold for $2.75 to $4.25 per gallon, depending on the location in Brazil. By comparison, ethanol sold for $1.60 to $2.45 per gallon during the first six months

more at the link




www.extension.iastate.edu...
David Blumes "Alcohol can be a gas!"
www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=alcohol++can+bea+gas!&x=15&y=17
because it takes more alcohol to provide the same energy fuel lines and carb jetting has to be opened up. but its "do-able". get a copy of David Blumes "alcohol can be a gas!"$47.00 but it covers everything from the history of alcohol; different feedstocks, fermentation ;distillation:setting up your car to run on it...

Every year I make it a point to attend the mid west renewable energy association (mrea) "energy fair" in custer Wi. I call it my "hippy weekend" its three days of workshops on renewables and homesteading off the grid; speakers ;and vendors. "drum circles";vegan indian tacos; and unshaven;no-bra hippy chicks"...Richard Heinbergh spoke on "peak oil" one year.

Politically I'm a " stranger in a strange land" but technically its excellent I usually blow my cash on books for my shelves there.
caveat: "Iam not posting in anyway comnnected with blumes organization"

There are good changes that a BMW will run (sometimes) on E100. You know, the E10 debate in germany:
Here is a (maybe poorly translated by me) statement from BMW:

In allen BMW Pkw Modellen sämtlicher Baujahre ist der unbedenkliche Einsatz von E10 Kraftstoffen möglich – jedoch ist die mindest vorgeschriebene Oktanzahl gemäß Betriebsanleitung weiterhin zu beachten.

All models from BMW (cars) from all construction dates can run without any concerns on E10 but you have to lookup the minimum ROZ level in the manual.

Maybe sometimes BMW will take the step but I think this will take a long time. Today I found this Website about running your car with plantoil, or better to say used frying oil. But you need to heat the oil when you want to run your car on 100% plantoil. Otherwhise you would need an additional tank for a little reserve of gasoline to cold-start your engine without that heater. And never, never forget to switch back to gas BEFORE you stop the engine.

www.norbertfritz.de...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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Have you considered installing a HHO kit. If tuned properly your car is "suppose" to use 60% less fuel.
I have done a bit of reading on them and built one from a Kit I bought from ebay.
Unfortunately because I have a sports car i have no room to install it with out some modifications. So in a couple months we are going to install into my friends 4wd and test it out, If it proves good, I will then install one into my car

reply to post by wycky

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HHO is spurious technology really. It has no founding in science, no data, experimental models to back it up. I would not trust it. I looked into it but, basic thermodynamics states that you cannot extract more energy out of a system than you put into it. I would advise you to stay away from it.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

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I've been waiting to post this for awhile, so here it is...

Hydrogen based synthetic fuel

infogreenglobal.com...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by wycky

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HHO is spurious technology really. It has no founding in science, no data, experimental models to back it up. I would not trust it. I looked into it but, basic thermodynamics states that you cannot extract more energy out of a system than you put into it. I would advise you to stay away from it.

My understanding of it is this.
As a previous poster said a lot of petrol is wasted and not used.
Using a Hydrogen / Oxygen / Petrol mix is more combustible then just Oxygen / Petrol therefore more fuel will be used to power the car and not be wasted, then you can have the car re tuned to use less petrol.

Thats my basic understanding of how it works.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by wycky

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HHO is spurious technology really. It has no founding in science, no data, experimental models to back it up. I would not trust it. I looked into it but, basic thermodynamics states that you cannot extract more energy out of a system than you put into it. I would advise you to stay away from it.

Did you read that on some website and just believed it without any research? Dude you really need to do some research and quite spouting non-sense about things you have not bothered to learn and understand and you know nothing about. Thousands have been running them including myself for years.

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