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Has Anyone seen this yet? Human mutilation by something unknown?

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posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:01 PM
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Reading enron's post . . . oops you covered most of my material already!

(shame, shame, everybody knows my name.)

I too have a BA in Anthropology. My forte was osteology. Never really enjoyed the fleshy bits, just the pearly whites . . .

I worked in law enforcement before going on to masters work in another related field; participated in about a dozen murder investigations at one level or another.

The absence of blood is one of those things that indicates a body has been moved from the perpetration scene. I don't really want to go back and look at the photos, but a lot of the blue/black marks seemed like haematomas (bruises). Dead bodies bruise where they are propped up against something, or bound with something (even a bra or sock hem). Or have something lie on top of them (a book, a bottle, a sack of groceries).

Most people imagine there must be buckets of blood at a crime scene (TV), but that really isn't the case.

The last murder I worked was of a woman killed in her home. There were two small puddles of blood, but not enough. THere was spatter, so we were certain that the murder had been done there; but why so little blood? later, it was determined that the perp had stabbed her while she was wearing a poly-filled parka. The parka soaked up almost all of the blood. Days later, he had removed the parka (it was his) and tried to dispose of it. It was found in a partly burnt oil drum. It was enough to get him life. But it goes to show that absence of blood doesn't mean much during the winter, or where there is malice and disturbance to the scene.

The fact that this dude is nude nullifies the lack of blood, IMO. Genital/anal mutilation is concomminat with homosexual assault, almost always by an assailant who new the vic (the shepherd case in montana . . .)

Honestly folks, I am by no means an expert; but wounds are like snow-flakes--no two are alike. Insects, carrion-feeders, temperature, time, all of those factors can distort a wound to the point you can't tell ANYTHING without chemical or bone tests. With this one, if the wounds are dubious, the flesh ought to be removed and the bones checked for blunt/blade/bullet marks. Bet you'd find plenty.

Was the autopsy done in the field? That's not an autopsy, that is called 'curious cops.' Why aren't there lab photos?????? Chemical and trauma analysis would answer your questions, id lay 50 on it.





posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:04 PM
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This is obviously the work of.............. Republicans!!
But seriously I see satanic cult in this rather than aliens.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 10:05 PM
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dr_strangecraft
A fellow anthropologist! Yay!!!
- I felt so alone
- (off topic) maybe you'd be interested in one of my dead threads here at ATS - Enviromental and Cultural Adaptations

I'm gonna look at some bullet wound images and see how close they come - I think that may be it too - I just always remember what I saw as being less focused and more dispersed...along with the fact that I don't see any gunpowder, but I guess that only applies for a fairly close-range shot

Deker - I'm sorry if I sounded enraged....I always end up doing something like that and appologizing for it later - lol - I'd like to read it in English if you can find it - I hate those online translators, they never seem to work that well

Does anyone know if the original poster has even replied recently??



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 07:26 AM
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My theory?

It's the government testing a new weapon. Originally testing this weapon on animals, practicing etc. Then the final test on a human subject.

There is a reason this thing is only cutting out soft tissue. Maybe the laser or weapon has the ability to heat up an area of the body causing it to slowly melt away. Maybe they have the ability to use this weapon from a great distance and they simply zom in on the subject, turn on the laser and boom. The soft tissue parts of the anatomy fall out.

I dunno, but noticing the way some of those holes look heated up around the edges just makes me think there is much more to this than some sort of cutting object or hand laser.

If I were to guess, it's a laser on a satelite somewhere that can heat up an area with a subject in it and cause death as described above.

Im sure Im way off though as I know nothing of this stuff.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 07:42 AM
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i had never heard of mulitated humans, but in my opinion it ain't aliens. but it is really gross.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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Enron

just posted on your other thread.

You generally cannot "see" powder residue around a bullet trauma, unless the firearm was between 6 inches and 3 or 4 ft. away.

If outter clothing has been removed, you'll only find it from a chemical/wax test.

If a pistol is pressed into the flesh, the wounds are distended because there is a vacuum behind the bullet. Flesh is actually sucked into the barrel of the gun, and the rim of the wound is usually singed and pressed in a bit.

But again. Not stuff you will spot at the scene. I would be much more interested in the autopsy, and not in the patrol's taking "golly" pictures, which are useless for evidentiary conclusions.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Despite what you saw in horror commics as a kid, animials other than sharks don't generally leave jagged wounds. They are efficient. They also prefer the softer anus, mouth, ears and guts, over muscle.



I guess you never seen a crocodilus/Caiman de Brasil eat before there eating habits are far from efficient. I think taking a look at the large predators of Brazil would help to disprove them as the killers in this case.

Jaguar – Panthera onca

Jaguars will pursue almost any kind of animal prey within its range, with its favorite being the peccary (a type of wild pig) and the capybara (the worlds largest rodent)

Jaguars differ from all the other cats in their method of killing. Once they’ve caught their prey they pierce the skulls with their canines, demonstrating the amazing strength of their powerful jaws.

Most other large cats will go for a neck bite sufocating thier prey

Crocodilus

Are ambush predators waiting in ambush at the water’s edge and then lunge or snap sideways at animals which come to feed or drink. Another method is dragging prey underwater, then twisting it in a ‘death-roll’ until it dies or disintergrates.

Anaconda

I dont think I even have to explain how they kill.

This man was not killed by any animal I cannot say there was no scavenger activity on the body.Most large animals rip the body of their prey apart just watch a crocodile, large cat ,Pack of wolfs most large predators eat and you will see there eating habits are far from surgical. Ofcourse most will go for the soft parts like the stomach first but will quickly move on to other parts.



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 10:56 AM
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Right. individual was not killed by a large predator.

The carcasses has not been worked over by a croc, or a panther.

Or for that matter by ground sloths, or fruit bats, or orangutans, or herring. Not that I had mentioned those either. Just in case you were interested.





posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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Has anyone bothered to answer HOW in the WORLD the Brazil case ended up like Sgt Louette without BLOOD and WITHOUT VASCULAR COLLAPSE?

Homosexul Rape does not generally entail "anal coring" nor does it involve surgical removal of the PROSTATE via the Penile Urethra (i.e. extracted via the penis).

Also there was no trace of human semen anywhere near the anal cavity, which would preclude sodomy.

The surgical removal of the eye and tongue/gums is also curiously similar to animal/cattle mutilations (1950 to 2001) in the midwest US and also throughout South America and Europe, i.e. done with a high intensity laser like incision device.

How did such a device exist in 1956 when it was applied to the still living body of Sgt Louette in the White Sands case?

But it's the vascular collapse thingy that has me stumped.

Any ideas?



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 03:14 PM
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Perhaps instead of asking other UFO community members some of you do some digging and questioning and see if you can retrieve information on Vascular collapse or lack thereof from a coroner or coroners office?



posted on Jul, 21 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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This is the last time I'll post on this thread, I think a lot of you are getting sick of hearing from me.

I don't see anything in the photos that shows there was no vascular collapse. I see blood around the ear trauma, and bruises, so there was blood in the body when some of these traumas were inflicted. The bruises on the back of the thigh is where blood has coagulated while the dead body lay face-up on the ground. There's just no blood on the ground because the body has been moved.

In fact, it's not clear to me when during the photos the body was rolled over. Probably several times. That is the kind of thing you log in a real autopsy. The body is a map of the crime, and moving the body erases evidence. But no mention of when and in what order the body was moved, at least in the notes I read.

Look carefully at the photos and you will see that the skin has become leathery like parchment, and the underlying tissues (mostly water) have begun to dry and shrink. The wounds are so distended they could have been anything. But THIS body has been lying out someplace in cool air for a week or more.

Folks keep posting about the autopsy notes. They say this, they say that. You ought to ignore the text. It has been heavily edited. REAL autopsies are conducted under standardized lighting, with a ruler in every shot for scale, with time and temperature info, as well as the state of tissues on a microscopic level. The text reads like it's conclusions, but ones that you couldn't reach in the field.

As far as vascular collapse goes, this body is so badly weathered post-mortem that you'd be hard pressed to say Anything about the vascular condtion. Theres no photos of it.

Hell, most of these traumas could have been inflicted post mortem, from looking at the pix!

The hole in the arm looks like it's post mortem to me. That dark bruising is where blood has settled when the dead body was resting on an object that indented the flesh

If I was trying to help at this crime scene, here's where I'd have to start.
Here's a dead body on the ground
A lot of ugly stuff has been done to it. Burned. Punctured. shaven?

Everywhere there is trauma, i.e. ear, arm, and anus, it looks like there was further alterations after the body has become stiff. Presumeably to erase evidence of which wounds were pre vs. post-mortem, as well as to obfuscate the cause of death.

Probably some predation, too. This happens as a cold or frozen body warms up in the sunshine. Insects and rodents feed at the margins of wounds, which ooze protein rich fluid and thaw faster.

The removal of rectum was no doubt performed by human agency, perhaps long after death. Probably to remove DNA evidence. This is not uncommon, and the disfigurement totally fits in with homosexual assault, as any forensic manual will explain.

If I were seeking the perp, I'd be looking for a drug connection, or sexual, prostitution and/or gang violence.

The pics are horrible, but just like many violent deaths.

Well, that's it from me.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:32 PM
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The pathologists have spoken; I'm calling it a night (really a day)...

One question though: is the pattern of homosexual rape -- ie, the associated excessive violence/disfigurement -- relatively universal or more culture bound. Ie, is there research establishing that that pattern holds worldwide, or is the empirical data more limited in scope (ie, to just the US, just western nations, etc.)?



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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I think there are definantly cultural boundaries in homosexual rape....

You could compare this case to say a prison rape, which would usualy only include a beating and forced intercourse while the victim is either knocked unconscious, struggling with the rapsists, or submitting - which would each leave their own forms of evidence on the victim.

Then you have people like Dahmer, who was a necrophiliac and cannibal....so ubringing and culture definantly plays a factor - I don't know if there are actually culutural trends, but the standard that I quoted from that book a few posts back is..well...a standard - lol - It's a generalized statement that applies to almost all homosexual rapes - They tend to be far more brutal and "creative" so to speak - I'm sure copy-cats are at large in these kinds of cases too, perhaps practicing on the animals....

Somone mentioned earlier something about the precision required to remove the eyes, etc...Eyes are one of the first things to go on a dead body, they're a nice warm place for the maggots to "kick their feet up" in. Even your favorite and most loving cat will eat at your eyes if you pass away and are left alone for several weeks. I just don't see anything super weird here....it's impossible to say the blood vessels hadn't collapsed as myself and dr_strangecraft pointed out earlier b/c there are clear haematomas on the skin which means they had to have collapsed, or at least in that general area. I'm not entirely certain what it could mean if they havn't - but like dr_strangecraft said earlier - the photos are bad and the reports are even worse.....to assume that the body had not been flushed and embalmed before someone noticed this "phenomenon" is not too far from being a possibility.



posted on Jul, 30 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
This is the last time I'll post on this thread, I think a lot of you are getting sick of hearing from me.


think it was great to have you (dr_strangecraft) and EnronOutrunHomerun comment on this post. Thank you for shedding a little light on this more than anyone else could, very interesting by the way


thanks



posted on Jul, 30 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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Ogrish.com has worse.
These are the only human mutilation pictures I see spread through the internet.



posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 06:03 AM
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The link posted by Deker is has a very good explanation to this and maybe other cases, its a shame that the Google translation is not very good and it does not translate all the page, but you can try it.



posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 10:10 AM
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Can anyone tell me if the parts removed from this man be transplanted and could this be people stealing transplant parts.



posted on Jul, 31 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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it's impossible to say the blood vessels hadn't collapsed as myself and dr_strangecraft pointed out earlier b/c there are clear haematomas on the skin which means they had to have collapsed, or at least in that general area.


I have a question. Is it possible that the blood was draind completly after the cuts were made in the skin and the organs extracted? This would explain the bruising aroung the wounds, would it not? Im not really sure of myself on this subject, its just a thought. But could that be a possibility?



posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 06:36 PM
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could it be a unknown parasite we still got to discover???



posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I think there are definantly cultural boundaries in homosexual rape....

You could compare this case to say a prison rape, which would usualy only include a beating and forced intercourse while the victim is either knocked unconscious, struggling with the rapsists, or submitting - which would each leave their own forms of evidence on the victim.

Then you have people like Dahmer, who was a necrophiliac and cannibal....so ubringing and culture definantly plays a factor - I don't know if there are actually culutural trends, but the standard that I quoted from that book a few posts back is..well...a standard - lol - It's a generalized statement that applies to almost all homosexual rapes - They tend to be far more brutal and "creative" so to speak - I'm sure copy-cats are at large in these kinds of cases too, perhaps practicing on the animals....

Somone mentioned earlier something about the precision required to remove the eyes, etc...Eyes are one of the first things to go on a dead body, they're a nice warm place for the maggots to "kick their feet up" in. Even your favorite and most loving cat will eat at your eyes if you pass away and are left alone for several weeks. I just don't see anything super weird here....it's impossible to say the blood vessels hadn't collapsed as myself and dr_strangecraft pointed out earlier b/c there are clear haematomas on the skin which means they had to have collapsed, or at least in that general area. I'm not entirely certain what it could mean if they havn't - but like dr_strangecraft said earlier - the photos are bad and the reports are even worse.....to assume that the body had not been flushed and embalmed before someone noticed this "phenomenon" is not too far from being a possibility.


could it be that the cows were raped by these gay men???



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