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The reason why you're not taken seriously

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posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Kali74
Another thing that keeps this subject from being taken seriously is the massive amount of negativity. Mainstream Guy sees an abnormal light in the night sky whips out his iphone and records it, it comes out horribly but he can't stop thinking about it so he posts it on YT anyway, he doesn't feel like he can talk to anyone in his life but has to talk to someone so he then enters UFO in his search engine and ends up here, where he he's promptly told he's a hoaxer or an idiot because on the crappy video it looks like a plane.

Mainstream guy tries to explain why it wasn't a plane but no one ever really reads his posts because duh the video is obviously fake. So Mainstream Guy goes away and never talks about UFOs with anyone again because even the UFO community made him feel stupid and alienated. Multiply Mainstream Guy by 10 or 100 or 1000. We need Mainstream Guy feeling comfortable and validated so that he can talk about it in the mainstream. We need the mainstream.


That's kinda rare tho. Usually it's the same people, occasionally someone else, who seem to go thru hours and hours of their life looking at youtube for more UFO PROOF and who immediately start 200 threads on ATS saying things like "DISCLOSURE!@!!!" or "PROOV!!" and when we as a community view it, it's either been posted 500 times before, been scrutinised to the n'th degree and the general consensus is that it is a hoax, is so appalling as a video that it makes Gumby look realistic or is made Intentionally to hoax people and the folks who created it sit back smugly snickering that they've successfully trolled ATS again.

(edit) Forgot to add, there are also times when something is truly Unknown and it goes in the goody folder - they are rare however...
(endedit)

When someone who's been here a bit comes out and says "Guys, I have footage I cant work out how to upload it" or "I cant find my usb cable" etc, the community generally gives them time to sort things, offer advice... It's the newbs who start "OH REALLY? *trollface*" at them, and most of the time, the members DO actually upload what they have and the debate starts, if there is a plausible explanation and it fits, usually, thats the end of it.

But when we have people posting youtube vids and not taking any previous discussions into it, when they staunchly refuse to accept any possibilities other than "PROOV!!" or when they start getting all WahhhWaahhhy over the negative attention their video of a smoke cloud reflection has gotten them, and then despite all this they go onto create ANOTHER thread doing the exact same thing but this time with a crater on the moon and calling it "DISCLOSURE!!!!" then we get a bit fed up...

These people can be so prolific that it's all everyone sees when log into ATS - and if theyre new, you can bet they're thinking "Man this place is crap, all these fruitloops.. UFO? Ha. loonies.." and go write a blog about how it's all a load of bunnyhats...

Mainstreamguy never really comes here... He goes to youtube and then other people grab Mainstreamguys video and say "LOOK!!!!! MORE EVIDENCE!!!" without the benefit of Mainstreamguys recital of events.

So there.

edit on 6/3/2011 by badw0lf because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by badw0lf
 


In my short time here, I have seen exactly what I'm talking about and frequently. Assumptions are dripping all over this site. A new video/story/photo pops up and it's like a troll feeding frenzy. Many of those "noobs" you say are responsible have quite high post counts.

I get that it gets frustrating seeing a blob of light do nothing, I get that it's frustrating reading a story that is hard to believe but that's not an excuse for ignorant and malicious responses. Quality control seems to be what a lot of this complaining is about so my suggestion is don't respond to something you think is silly or wrong let it drop to the bottom, or politely state your opinion. What is so hard about that?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Motive
 


I never said proof, I love how people round here try to put words in other peoples mouths. Look mate if your not willing to discuss with people ideas, why come to a forum. You have to realise that you aren't going to agree with everyone? So what your really trying to say is your right and anyone who is with you is right too. Anyone against your thought is wrong?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by badw0lf
 


How did I guess that you would be here? You even tried to dis info everyone about me, them ran away and no you hide come out come out.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Motive
 


There has been many, many members over the years that have pointed out the very, very obvious points you have made as to why we can't progress this subject in a manner that will work in the environment it has fostered. Those posters have been met with, obviously, all sorts of retaliation over the years. From gangs of roving, ignorant believers, to attacks from staff them selves. Many of then have left, or have been "ghost banned", a practice where they just make those pesky "debunker troublemakers" unable to ever log in again, but their account doesn't show them as banned. That way, ats doesn't look like a bad guy, and the believers can go on and think they have chased away all those non-believers.

But your real problem here, is you are confusing the hunt for the truth with a business for profit. There is nothing wrong with being a business, and one can run it the way one wants to. But what produces more attention and clicks? Reasonable conversation that rely on basic common sense, or a bunch of idiotic and sensationalist ignorant mumbo-jumbo that people will stretch on for pages and pages? The answer is obvious. This is the internet, both the saviors and bane of society. It has made more people less intelligent than otherwise I'm afraid.

The biggest problem with Ufology doesn't come from the public, but rather from the overwhelming about of ignorance that is from within. We are our own worst enemy and the price we pay is what we deserve for not looking in the mirror and dealing with this the only way you can.

Shame on us.Shame. I'm frankly wondering how much of this thread can possibly be tolerated, or threads like this. It is not the environment that produces the desired results for business, unless you can turn it into pages and pages of some stupid "us versus them" discussion (fight)...then it fits the bill quite well.
edit on 6-3-2011 by MainLineThis because: spelling

edit on 6-3-2011 by MainLineThis because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
reply to post by Motive
 

You're like a broken record. The believers are ruining it for everyone. We get it. Now sit back and watch nothing change. Threads like this are so pointless. It's just an exercise to make you feel superior.

You must like the sound of your own typing...


I conpletely agree.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Slipdig1
reply to post by Motive
 


I never claimed proof anywhere, I just claimed no one has used intellect to disprove it, and that is what you are trying to say in your bottom paragraph. All those things that you state are wrong with the forum are whats happening in my thread, and you are even a perpetrator of this as you use my thread for an example of ridiculousness, without proven it is ridiculous. Hey you could prove it ridiculous, but you don't have to tell me how hey?

I know its not about me, I just dislike you using me as an example. I'm allowed to dislike it as well.

Also you've used my example of one of my threads, you may not thinks its right, doesn't give you the right not to let people discuss it.

I have another thread about UFO's see if that ones more to your liking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't think this is a discussion on Aliens, I think its a discussion on things you don't agree with.



Either, YES YOU CLAIMED PROOF, or, you're just not very good at wording your posts correctly.



No one has posted any evidence against it just personal opinions,this is why no one will take it serious. We have a bunch of ranters and ravers that won't accept any proof. You all wouldn't accept it unless the Alien physically jammed it down your throats.




I never said proof, I love how people round here try to put words in other peoples mouths.


This quote right here, you're talking about your thread, and the particular subject of the youtube alien video, then go on to say we wont accept any proof? There is no proof in that video. Then go on with the silly comment that we wouldn't accept it unless the alien jammed it down our throat. You're right, thats the ONLY way I'd accept that video to be true, because I've looked at it, at all of them, aswell as the guys posts, and its utterly ridiculous. So many signs of a troll.

You want me to prove the video in question ridiculous? Okay.
1. If ET's came to Earth do you think they'd spend NUMEROUS nights running around some kids house at night.
2. He's supposedly seen these "aliens" alot of times going on his youtube, yet not one time has he gotten any tangible photographic or video evidence, not ONCE has he managed to hold his camera even relatively still enough to get a clear view, let alone hold it there long enough to let it focus.
3. A whole lot of screaming and profanity, which to me atleast, sounds super over the top, aswell as saying "hello" to a supposed Alien after chasing it into bushes.
4. If the Kid actually believes what he's filming is what it says he is, and hes as scared as he claims/sounds, why does he keep doing it, and doesn't seem to of raised any kind of questions about it with anyone around him. If you were COMPLETELY CERTAIN you had ET's running around your house at night, and you'd filmed it a number of times, and you literally had zero doubt in your mind - You'd do something about it, something major.
5. Look at the likelihood. Aliens running around a kids garden popping their heads up over bushes, is the equivalent of Humans getting to an alien planet and deciding to sit in a field making daisy-chains.

Ridiculous

There, once again you've managed to derail the topic and put the focus back onto you and your thread, clapclap.

Once again, it seems you're either purposely being of dim wit to bend my posts to your liking, or you simply just misunderstand me, this thread ISN'T ABOUT ALIENS. This thread is about how the Aliens and UFO's forum is used as a whole.
I can only explain it so many times mate.

And yes, the other UFO thread of yours is of much better caliber, and I can read it without so much "Is this guy serious? What kind of question is that?". The forum would be better off with more of those threads. The only thing I find that isn't PERSONALLY to my taste is the way you make massive leaps from idea to idea, you're talking about an orange orb in the sky, and why no one managed to get a picture, and you jump from that... straight to Cloaking Technology?? I mean, I don't doubt that its an idea and could be right, but its a bit sensationalist to get to that idea so early and so quickly, it doesn't encourage decent debate or speculation.
But either way, it's a good thread.
edit on 6-3-2011 by Motive because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Motive because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-3-2011 by Motive because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by badw0lf
 


In my short time here, I have seen exactly what I'm talking about and frequently. Assumptions are dripping all over this site. A new video/story/photo pops up and it's like a troll feeding frenzy. Many of those "noobs" you say are responsible have quite high post counts.

I get that it gets frustrating seeing a blob of light do nothing, I get that it's frustrating reading a story that is hard to believe but that's not an excuse for ignorant and malicious responses. Quality control seems to be what a lot of this complaining is about so my suggestion is don't respond to something you think is silly or wrong let it drop to the bottom, or politely state your opinion. What is so hard about that?


Umm nothing? I do exactly that until it gets ridiculous.

And I've not seen any people who have posted anything in a long time, straight off the street into ATS and get hassled back out...

I've seen people who join in 2011 and thsn start doing exactly as I described - and then get a hassling for the reasons I mentioned. Perhaps you are referring to them. And invariably they are not posting their own videos but someone elses and the really sad thing is if they post "Is this fake?" it would have taken a cursory glance at the comments on the video itself to see a LOT of the same reasoning they then appears here, but they refuse that too.

Quality control can't be just implied - it's mentioned all over the site, but people still refuse to adhere to it, resulting in threads like this which should serve to remind people that we're not a bad Youtube video repository and that the ability to first consider things for yourself before wildly posting everything and everything you see goes a long way to settling the 'newbs' as I called them (which incidentally was how that phrase was originally spelt) down before they start spitting coffee at their monitor in a rage against the perpetual insanity that dastardly place has given the internet.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
It's obvious: fear of the unknown, a natural human trait (and probable survival mechanism).


This is part of #2, the arrogance of believers.

Like you are?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Slipdig1
reply to post by badw0lf
 


How did I guess that you would be here? You even tried to dis info everyone about me, them ran away and no you hide come out come out.


Yep, funny little thing about timezones.. But never mind, I explained everything to you before I went to sleep.

You just wouldn't accept it. Which leads me to the same question you just asked Motive - Why do you come here if you already have your mind made up? Why not just stay on youtube and proselytize to the gang there who oooh and ahhh without restriction or thought?

Oh but then again, you just called me a disinfo this time in reply TO me and not someone else.

here's your bunnyhat!



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by Motive

Originally posted by Perfectenemy
Let me get this straight. Now it´s "our" fault that nobody believes us when we present a proof for UFOs or alien lifeforms? You got to be [snip] kidding me. This is ridicilous. But of course the sky is blue and we all live in happy hippo wonderland and nothing is wrong with our society. Mähhhhhhhh. But who [snip] cares just blame us for everything. And now you wonder why i hate the sceptics....

Ps: Not every YT video of UFOs is a hoax,fake or whatever. Some things can´t be explained and that´s a freaking fact. The existence of UFOs and alien life is a proven fact. Just deal with it already.
edit on 5-3-2011 by Perfectenemy because: (no reason given)


"I hate the skeptics" - So you're basically saying, you hate people who disagree with you.
"The existence of UFOs and alien life is a proven fact. Just deal with it already." - You do realise that you just proved all the points I made in my thread correct.

Not really much point replying to the rest, you just made it clear that getting into any debate with you is pointless. Yes, this entire thread is aimed at people like you.

P.S. There's no undeniable proof of alien lifeforms. If there were then this website wouldn't have to be called AboveTopSecret.
edit on 5-3-2011 by Motive because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2011 by Motive because: (no reason given)


 
Mod note: circumvention of the automatic censor on the quoted post removed.
edit on 6/3/2011 by ArMaP because: (no reason given)

RIGHTTTTT & we're the only species in a big universe consisting of billions of planets and star and such. mmmmh i wonder what all that empty space is for?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by firegoggles
reply to post by WalterRatlos
 


Your so WRONG. I am the real deal. I am an expereiencer (since I was a child). I don't talk about it much only post about it once or twice in passing. I don't give a crap about "disclosure". I don't think every you-tube video is real either. What I do know is what I know though is you skeptics are wrong in so much that I truly laugh at your ignorance.




You're the real deal if the deal is dreaming and thinking those dreams are real, I base that on your previous threads.

So, you believe your dreams are real and at the same time laugh at other people's ignorance?

Ironic?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by ignoranceisdestruction
RIGHTTTTT & we're the only species in a big universe consisting of billions of planets and star and such. mmmmh i wonder what all that empty space is for?


Non-Sequitur.Saying there is no evidence of Aliens visiting Earth is NOT the same as saying there are no such things as alien life somewhere out there.

Oh and the empty space is for things to float in, usually.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Perfectenemy
I conpletely agree.


Ofcourse you do, you're the guy that said you hated skeptics and alien life is a proven fact, then continued to dribble all over my thread. You're hilarious.



Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Motive
 



The reason why you are not taken seriously


So cool of you to reprimand the jokers and all the silliness that sometimes occurs around such a delicate subject as UFO research and the claims made..."This is real" ....A UFO!!! And then it turns out to be just a hubcap or a dinner plate against a backdrop of skyline.

However you make no mention of the huge number of UFO reports, sightings and clips that ARE NOT FAKED, THAT ARE UNEXPLAINED, and that ARE TAKEN SERIOUSLY by many thinking people....
except perhaps the jokers and the paid and persistent debunkers whose sole purpose is to discredit credible reports so the story does not gain "legs" and get taken seriously.

You saying that doesn't happen? Credible stories are not given some fantastic explanation like "it was a weather balloon" or a piece of debris just to shut people up and throw them off the story???

If so then there is no end to the naivety of some people.
And to those folks still unconvinced there is more out there than meets the eye....I have some premium property in Florida to sell you.
Only a little swampy.
edit on 6-3-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)


I accept there are alot of unexplained sightings and clips, but unexplained is often hard to use. You can't prove it's what you think it could be, nor can you disprove it. I see so many threads with photos that look pretty silly, its basically a light in the sky that looks as though its a reflection in the window but you can't prove it, and while you can put that argument forward, you'll always get replies along the lines of "Are you blind? Thats not a reflection, thats a UFO in the sky!!!!!!", or it'll be a random picture from the 1950's thats been shown dozens and dozens of times, it can't be proven or disproven, you can just see that it looks more likely than not to have a boringly explainable explanation.

There are plenty of unexplained cases as you say, and people should try to focus on that, instead of getting dragged into sensationalist ideas about the annunaki coming back to claim their slave workforce or hoax youtube videos or people trying to rake in money by claiming they have a hybrid child that phones them every couple of weeks to say they're okay.

And by the way, this is to everyone.

YOU'RE LUCKY I MADE THIS THREAD ABOUT ALIENS AND UFO FORUM. If I'd of made it about "The Grey Area" - you'd see a neverending super-rant on the constant stream of "I was a grey alien in another life" threads, or "I'm of the reptilian race, and we have a message for you" threads.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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how about if everything we think is true is bull# and everything we think his far fetched and dellusional is true. Im not saying i believe in reptillians or things that sound out of this reality but i believe that in order to find out the real, we need to be open minded and consider things that might not add up to our senses and perceptions & then after decipher the truth from the bull#.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by ignoranceisdestruction
how about if everything we think is true is bull# and everything we think his far fetched and dellusional is true. Im not saying i believe in reptillians or things that sound out of this reality but i believe that in order to find out the real, we need to be open minded and consider things that might not add up to our senses and perceptions & then after decipher the truth from the bull#.


I agree. While I don't think there is a race of reptilians, I accept we know very little, or next to nothing of the universe outside of our own solar system. So who knows, I'm open to the fact it could be true. I try to be open, but it's hard to be open to the concept of a Reptilian alien posting on a quirky internet conspiracy theory forum. And they crop up SO often that now it's hard not to stereotype those posters as the lonely living-at-mums-house-in-my-basement-command-centre cliche.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Motive, you're very justified in your OP to feel that way.

The "Kid films alien" video was called a hoax vid for a bit of fun within the first few responses and after watching myself when it was first posted, I came to the same conclusion so I'm as mystified as you that it's gotten to as many pages of discussion as it has (although unlike you, once I determined hoax I never ventured into the thread again so I wouldn't have known what was being said about it).

Nibiru, again, my gut tells me something's up there in space but my head and logical thinking says we need a hell of a lot more evidence on the newly discovered planets in the outer edges of our solar system and facts on them before saying there's an even bigger thing on its way. While some of the videos posted of "Nibiru" where the camera is moved bu the "object" being filmed next to the Sun doesn't, that has to be something but Nibiru? Unlikely.

I do like to believe in this stuff, I have an open mind for any possibility as well as having the intelligence to understand a lot of things in this world, whether known or unknown but some things really need all the investigating we can manage.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Motive
 


True. Im also a scanner.
Most of the posts on here dont even need to be posted. Theres a majority of people who claim to know everything about everything who comment and people take it as fact or something.

Im not claiming to be one of these know it alls. It just helps if people do a little of their own research about these topics before commenting something idiotic.

As far as these people who predict the future or what have you, i must say "quote-unquote" future telling should be on a different site. Its impossible for one person to see the future of the entire planet. Its hard enough for them to see it for themselves. Theres a few things that this site could do without that would greatly improve it.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Motive
Ever wondered why alot of people simply don't want to be open to the concept of things such as abductions, or ET's already visiting Earth? Look at the way so many people act on the forum.

My point is, the attitude the majority of this forum has really doesn't do ANY favours whatsoever for this "community" or for the general ideology behind ET's and such.


The people that want to learn don't make crazy threads and many will read around instead of posting. So you can't judge the attitude of most of the people here. People that come here and scoff after seeing the latest threads instead of looking further into what the good posters have said over the years, in my opinion, just aren't ready to have their perceptions changed.

Maybe they prefer a sudden shock in the future instead of a gradual shift over time, who knows. In fact maybe they'll be fine, because it seems like if anyone is out there (or with us right now, every day.) they're making sure that people don't have that sudden shock.

I'm really starting to side with Vallee now, I think there's a control system in place and there has been for a long time. I feel like I want to open up more myself but that something stops me, and I can't be the only one around here that has that problem...

Patience is a virtue, they say. I hope 'they' are right.
edit on 6-3-2011 by Hitoshura because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
It's obvious: fear of the unknown, a natural human trait (and probable survival mechanism).


This is part of #2, the arrogance of believers.


More like the "know-it-all" arrogance of debunkers



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