I'm a muslim. I'm not violent/radical. Tell me I'm lying!

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Nonsense indeed.
I see you have swallowed all the lies and hyperbole that big business has been offering up. For every nutter spouting jihad, there are ten thousand who are getting on with life and moaning about their footy team or the cricket.


Ask yourself, who gains from all this? Not Muslims, they get bombed, invaded, locked up and treated with suspicion. Not Joe public cos they just get caught in the middle.

The only people who benefit are those who would control us and profit from us.

reply to post by SprocketUK


Have you and heard the manifestoes of Islamic cults? In the middle east and most importantly in the United Kingdom? Have you heard of Diobandi islamic movement? It teaches exclusivity, prejudice against non-believers, as does the main Ideology of Islam.

I'm not going to label ALL Muslims as terrorist. But the very core Ideology of Islam teaches prejudice and discrimination against non-believers, in many verses it wages wars against non-believers.

They oppose freedom of speech and democratic society. Look at Denmark, the journalists were threatened because of their sattire regarding the prophet Muhammed. Threads of violence because of comedy? Because of criticism.....

What civilised person responds in this way to criticism? Please tell me.

And people will claim i am indoctrinated. By whom? The state? Nonsense. I think for myself thanks.

Your rights are in jeopardy here, as the UN continues to bend over for these idiots who wish to take away our rights that have made our countries and societies great.

They migrate here for freedom and liberty, only to attempt to take it away, You should be standing up with your brothers and sisters, for freedom.

It surprises me that you would call me indoctrinated. I don't wish violence or harm on any Muslim, do I get no credit for this?

Do you own research before starring idiots, including me

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Mate, I'm more at risk from my government than from some nutty mullah.
The UK is full of groups talking rubbish.

I grew up in an army town, lost a good mate in NI, but I don't think for a moment that all Irish Catholics are bad ones. It's the same with Muslims. Some are ok, some aren't.
Not all of them would kill cartoonists.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

It derives from core ideology in Islam; arrogant, proud Muslim men who wish to own and objectify their women. They don't want any other man looking at them, it comes from jelousy.

Sounds like a lot of cultures the world over. Typical trailer park attitude if you ask me. I guess you should go back and read that article and perhaps you can inform that woman how wrong and ignorant she is for dressing the way she chooses to dress. She probably just needs a man to tell her how free she is and what she needs to wear in order to enjoy that freedom. You have a white horse too, don't you?

I see Muslim couples in my home city, the women in the burka at the back pushing the child in the pram.....The man leading in front like the owner.

How many of those women have you tried to liberate from their tyranny? Have you asked any of them where they want to walk or are you deciding where these free women should walk? My original point was the differences between what some cultures value. Becoming American should not require that you like Jersey Shore, Justin Bieber, and Hot dogs with cheese injected into them. It should also not be so concerned with where people walk in relation to each other. Maybe you should ask?

If your point is that there are men that treat women like crap, then you are right. There are women that treat men like crap too. I know Muslims and I never see this ownership you speak of. Perhaps it is not so standard? What I do see are Mennonite men beating their teenage daughters for not putting out. But they can walk next to daddy. Look how free -[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7ee631674dda.jpg[/atsimg] Those would be CHRISTIANS. I see Christians beating sex out of their teenage daughters. Christianity is rooted in the subjugation of women. What was Mary's book left out of their holy encyclopedia for? Respect for the freedom of women in that religion I suppose?

Men in many cultures have used religions and even "science" as excuses to treat women as a lower class of person. For every Muslim man you see treating his wife like cattle for making her walk behind him, there is some punk beating his pregnant wife in a trailer by the airport. She gets to wear really tight skirts though so she is free. I get it.

Yeah, people see things. You see people walking and take it upon yourself to decide someone is being enslaved and therefore their religion is a scourge and sweeping generalizations are JUST FINE.

The fact that their are "fasionable" Islamic clothes now still doesn't detract from how and why the burka originally came to be, it comes from Islamics objectivism of the female.

The fact is you are spouting off a typical western interpretation of a culture you are not intimately familar with. There is a big difference between the way men throughout history have used many religions to subjugate woman and your complete ignorance of the actual beliefs on modesty practiced by the rational people that adhere to a faith you are looking at from the outside.

In the QuRan the women is compared to a domesticated animal. Don't believe me? Do your own research.

In the bible women are less valuable than sheep or cattle. Don't believe me? Do your own research. So logically, anyone woman that claims to believe in Christ is a slave and needs to be freed, correct? Lets not let myopia get in the way or reality.

I'll say it again, the KoRan is evil, wicked and morally reprehensible.

edit on 11/3/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

I'll say it again. All organized religion is flawed at best. Here in the US, we do not tell people that they cannot wear their religious outfits though. Mormons get to make pillsbury doughmen out of their women, Catholic preists can run around in dresses, and so can Muslim women. Isn't the US great like that!

reply to post by SprocketUK


I don't categorise members or individuals as evil, wicked, violent or radical.

I categorise Islam AND Christianity as evil and wicked. Because it promotes exclusivity, it attempts to polarize morality, to teach children the untrue.

The ethical and moral ideology is morally reprehensible. Metaphysical claims such as Heaven and Hell are evil and wicked, whether they are true or untrue, no can prove, thus no one can make claims to truth. Nor should they be taught to children as absolute or objective.

I'm as skeptical of the goverment as you are. I'm somewhat of an anarchist regarding the goverment. But compare our country to that of Libya, to that of Egypt, of Uganda, and you'll find that we have a great deal more freedom than those theocratic ruled countries, the countries of God (Iran for example)

I respect the freedom that we have here in the UK, but that doesn't mean i automatically respect the goverment in power, or any of the parties in the waiting area.

Please don't misterpret my concerns with Islam as having a blind allegiance to the state .

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

Nonsense indeed.

I see you have swallowed all the lies and hyperbole that big business has been offering up. For every nutter spouting jihad, there are ten thousand who are getting on with life and moaning about their footy team or the cricket.


Ask yourself, who gains from all this? Not Muslims, they get bombed, invaded, locked up and treated with suspicion. Not Joe public cos they just get caught in the middle.

The only people who benefit are those who would control us and profit from us.

Brilliant quote my friend well said .

Like you say in your next post we are more at risk from our governments than these fabled enemies .

Divide and conquer mate and it seems too many people here have fallen for it .
Mr Awake and aware is scared to death of muslims , funny how he is still fit n healthy and the "swarm " of muslims havent got him yet .

I used to get angry with him but i now just feel pity for him .

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Reading your reply, it strikes me that your beef is with those who twist religion, rather than those who follow a particular religion.

I doubt anyone could argue against the basic Christian ideals of treating people well and not being self destructive through greed or whatever. The same with the other Abrahamic religions.

The trouble comes when powerful people co opt the message for their own ends.
It shouldn't reflect on all members of a religion when a small group chooses to interpret it in a certain way.

reply to post by Doomzilla


Thanks mate!

reply to post by SprocketUK


My "beef" isn't with those who "twist" religion to meet their own agendas. My "beef" is with the core ideology of religion. Claims of objective morality, and false fears and hopes such as heaven and hell.

All of the abrahamic religions preach exclusivity, if you are to believe in 1 single dictator with certain commands, you automatically assume anyone who doesn't is not following the correct path - It causes a superiority complex. (Although i don't claim all members are guilty of this)

Islam is a specifically militant abrahamic religion. There's evidence for this worldwide. Just do a bit of reading; Militant groups in the middle east constantly use scripture to justify their wicked deeds, it's very easy to do as the QuRan has much discrimination against non-believers.

It's fascism, and a discriminatory cult disguised as a religion. Again, i don't discriminate against individual members of religions, only the core ideology that causes prejudice and hatred.

Faith is the most overated of the virtues. I wish it would stop so our children but not puth faith in theories without the conviction of evidence.

I'm an anti-theist. Again, my beef isn't just with those who twist religion. Although "twisting" religion is not hard to do, in fact - Religion is twisted, contradictory and illogical to start with.

I've read stories, news articles, books, reviews of the QuRan - My concern doesn't stem from indoctrination, I read a variety of sources.

Peace

A&A

doubt anyone could argue against the basic Christian ideals of treating people well and not being self destructive through greed or whatever. The same with the other Abrahamic religions.

These ideas exist without believing in the supernatural. A person is capable of " treating people well and not being self destructive through greed or whatever" without subscribing to a religion, or without believing in a creator or omniopotent being.

You don't have to label yourself wtih a religion to borrow philosophy from religion. There's only so much you can borrow too. I'd sooner find better examples of humanism in a sci-fi novel than ancient scripture.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Idk, perhaps we are having a misunderstanding. I am not at all arguing that woman shouldn't wear the hijab, an abaya, a thobe, etc. Those items are however different than a burka, the dresses you posted are not burkas. The very last one with the niqab still isn't a burka, but I am opposed to it for identification purposes.

I clicked on the link you provided with the pictures they all seemed to be abayas I didn't see a single burka on that page. Even within Islamic culture burkas are not common, hijabs, abayas, thobes absolutely but they are different things.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Absolutely agree that you don't need a guy in the sky in order to live well.

I stand by my point about religions getting twisted. Don't you wonder if the exclusivity clause could be one such twist?

Anyway, we are going off topic, here. I still don't think that its justifiable to classify people according to how they worship. To be blunt, some of the nastiest, back stabbing idiots I've ever met have been Christians. But so have some of the straightest, nicest people.

reply to post by SprocketUK


I'm not going to lie for the purpose of respect; i truly despise the core of all religion ideology.

However, i don't deny that many subscribers are nice people, who act in accordance with parts of their faith, but at the same time, boycott other parts of their faith (homophobia, genocide etc.) I still resent the ideology they are apart of.

But if they are to deny parts of scripture and adhere to other, havn't they made a new religion? They've edited the religion for the better? Why label yourself with a religion you disagree with?

Islam doesn't have any reformations. Christianity has many; there are well over 100. Whilst i still don't agree with religion, at least some religions have improved their moral, ethical and metaphysical philosophies.

I still stand by my point, Islam inherently causes prejudice, discrimination, martyrdom, jihad and justification for militant regimes. Label yourself a Muslim at the risk of being condemned.

Great more radicals - Just what we need in our country. Some members of the BnP also give all members a bad name for their despicable racist actions and words, Although i can't find anything in their literature that is explicitly racist, anti-non-believer or anti-believer.

Islamic scripture and literature is a cause of violence and radical acts. And we continue to have apologists come out, and try to defend their own corrupt dogma.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Mate, we're going round in circles, here. You gotta see beyond the lies that "the man" is peddling.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Idk, perhaps we are having a misunderstanding. I am not at all arguing that woman shouldn't wear the hijab, an abaya, a thobe, etc.

Thobe[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dca9a120b2b8.jpg[/atsimg] Isn't she pretty?

Those items are however different than a burka, the dresses you posted are not burkas.

You should probably inform the people that designed, manufactured, and then labeled them as burqas. I am not sure why you think I am going to just take your word for it over say, a burqa selling website. They even know how to spell these words and everything.

The very last one with the niqab still isn't a burka, but I am opposed to it for identification purposes.

Yeah, I never said that last one was a burqa. It is a niqab - the facial covering. I stated as much. Perhaps you are not reading?

I clicked on the link you provided with the pictures they all seemed to be abayas I didn't see a single burka on that page.

Not even the ones labeled as burqas? Perhaps you should try reading the text you will find on that page instead of asserting your already cemented beliefs.

Even within Islamic culture burkas are not common, hijabs, abayas, thobes absolutely but they are different things.

Yes, those are different things. They are all also quite different from the niqab.

I would like to repeat my question since no one responded to it.

This is a genuine question that I sincerely want to hear from people on.

For those who feel strongly that Islam is a religion that promotes violence, radicalism, terror, intolerance, or breeds terrorist threats, what would you personally like to see happen that would make you feel safer, more secure, and less threatened or concerned by Islam? (When responding, bear in mind that OP and many Muslims are American citizens.)

If you're not a radical and violent muslim then I'd say you're not a very good muslim. I'd advise you read the Qu'ran a few more times.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


So what, you're a Muslim, I'm a Lutheran. We are humans so what's the problem? I don't fear you at all. It doesn't matter to me that you worship Allah. And it shouldn't bother you that I worship God. What's the point in making this an issue? I'm sorry if you feel you are targeted but not all of us hate you. Peace.