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I'm a muslim. I'm not violent/radical. Tell me I'm lying!

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posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


I don't waste my time reading books full of lies & methods of control, but i sure as hell like to prove the followers of them wrong.

It's irrelevant what source i got these exerts from, but no they were none of the sites you listed. These are statements written within the Qoran.

The apologists of Islam like to potray alot of the nastier parts of their religion as mistranslations, and truly any religion is open-ended in that manner.

Explain to me how the text i just posted from 65:4 in the Qoran was mistranslated.


Mod Note: ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.
The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS
edit on 3/8/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by phatpackage
 


Right now I just think you are a lost cause..


Again that would be right! You write an aggressive and argumentative post and then when you get someone who stands up, you back away! This just proves my point further! The ironic thing is I actually agree with you on your stance with religious extremists, but to come out firing both barrels you are going to get it back! hahahahaha!



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by infiniteobserver
reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


The Muslims lost their "holy land" the same way they gained it hundreds of years before, through warfare.... so now they cry because the same thing is done to them. Another example of Muslim hypocrisy...

Good for the original poster if he is really what he says he is. Unfortunately, many other Muslims do not feel that way. It is a responsibility placed on the members of the faith to speak out against injustices committed in the name of their religion. This has never been the case with Islam. Just because other religions have done X doesn't justify the murder of innocents today.

I'm married to a Muslim, we have had to go out of our way to hide from her family. I've witnessed the understanding of Muslims first hand from her family and every time Muslim men see us together. Hopefully the OP can spread some of that understanding to his brothers and sisters of the faith...


First off, you should not start off with a huge generalization of 1.7 billion people.

Secondly, I agree with your second argument. I do not think it's fair to see "Christianity did this too!" whenever there is an act of terrorism done by a Muslim group. And I agree, Muslims should speak about the injustices committed. However, look at this way, as an example:

My father, a Muslim man, goes to work. Goes to the mosque for prayer once a week, and is a great father, husband, and family man. When he hears about injustices done by Muslims, he gets mad. He gets enraged at long bearded Muslim fold in the Middle East. About the blasphemy law just recently (where the Christian woman was prosecuted), he was just hoping that the tyrannical reign of corrupt mullahs would end. But in the end, he is one normal human being, and he has to take care of his family and his work. What the hell do you want him to do exactly? He is part of 1.7 billion people, and if you are asking him to speak out every damn time a Muslim injustice happens, then I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. If he is guilty by association, because of being one of the 1.7 billion Muslims, then isn't it just as easy to say that ALL OF US are guilty of association for slavery, starvation, ethnic cleansing, war, etc.? There are 7 billion people in the world, thus when a few people do something bad, we should speak out every single day. That is the big hole in the argument of "Muslims need to speak out more". They're not all one big unified chunk of people walking around.

Also, I believe that it's a lot easier to accept the OP's claims of being a peaceful Muslim then to believe you are married to a Muslim.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by trumpetthief1
 





The constant agressor in this conflict has been Israel. To say anything otherwise is just ridiculous.


You might want to know something about the facts, before you say "Israel is always the aggressor".

Lets look at the 7 wars Israel fought, and who was the aggressor.

1948 War of Independance: Initiated by Egypt
Sinai War: Israel
6 day War: Egypt
1968-1970 War: Egypt
Yom Kippur War: suprise attack on the Jewish day of repentance by Egypt
1st Lebanon War: PLO militants hiding out in southern Lebanon. Unless you consider rocket attacks that killed hundreds of civilians as not being a provocation to war, than i suppose Israel started it.
2nd Lebanon war: Hizbollah. Again, unless you can find the terrorists of Hizbollah innocent for killing 15 Israelis and 4 Israeli soldiers, than i suppose Israel was the "aggressor" for going into Lebanon to stop this injustice against the Israeli people.

Now, we can also look at individual uprisings: 1st and 2nd Intafada, which killed upwards of 2,000 Israeli CIVILIANS. Who were the aggressors here? Again, the PLO, Fatah and Hamas. The Arabs killed by the IDF were mostly militants who in anycase were terrorists attacking Israel citizens, woman and children, thus forcing Israels hand.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

And just to show the lack of Palestinian unity (and overall Arab hostility), during the 1st Intifada, "Approximately 1,000 Palestinians* killed by Palestinians", which is the same number killed by the IDF, and during the 2nd intifada "609 Palestinians killed by Palestinians".



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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I know what I am saying is rather abrasive, keep in mind it is my opinion. Nothing more unless I feel threatened, which is impossible behind a computer screen.
I believe that everyone that is apart of these hypocritical slave religions deserve whatever label pressed upon them because these religions use fear and violence to control people. Just because you pick and choose what part of these to practice doesn't mean that you don't have to deal with the stigmas attached to the religions as a whole. I'm sick and tired of people whining about how radicals in their religion give everyone a bad name. You go by the same scriptures as them. You are both given the same tools. Have you ever thought for one second that it is the very foundation of these tools that is the problem. If you take part in the herd, you are liable along with the rest for what your herd does in the name of faith. Don't be so sensitive. Your religion wants you numb. Or wake up already.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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In the end you have to think if you are a part of any religion about questions like these so here is a few to determine if you are liberal at heart about being Muslim or when the going gets tough you will switch sides.

You have to ask yourself these questions.

1) If your country was spilt and it could tip either way between Democracy / Christianity and Sharia or any other Muslim based party who would you choose?

2) If the party that won is Sharia and it asks for non Muslim women to cover up would you stop them?

3) In that society if the non Muslims and Christians had separate beliefs but the Muslim party forced it on them to forbid their religious practices and rights while accusing them of Blasphemy which would lead to severe punishment would you stop and rebel against this law?

4) If someone steals, do you think it is best to cut off their hand,or for Adultary be stoned?

5) Do you believe it is best for the world to become totally Muslim?

6) What do you think of an old Church turned into a Mosque ?

7) Should crosses and Christian symbols or historical records exist in a majority Muslim country or society or should they be destroyed and argued in court for their removal?

8) Can you live within a democracy without passing laws affecting the majority or taking work places to court because your own culture forbids certain dress, food and other religious reminders, what about the people who do that if you had the power would you stop them?

9) Should Israel be turned back to Palestine by name and the Jews sent back?

10) If you believe in the Torah why does the Koran have a different version of the Genesis story while it says it’s corrupt anyway?

11) The Bible says only through Jesus Christ you can be saved he is the only way to the Father the mediator between us and him, do Christians need the Quran to be saved or can just believing be enough if it is the same God in the end?

12) Are Christians or Jews doomed to hell if they don’t believe in Muhammad and Allah?

13) Apparently the Islamic Jesus in prophecy when he comes back will help wipe out the Jews, do you think it is religiously acceptable for a God to think that of another religious sect?

14) If Christ arrived on Earth of the Christian Bible and showed you proof would you think it was a trick, could you ever accept him?

Who ever wants to answer them please do would be interesting to hear.
edit on 6-3-2011 by The time lord because: spelling

edit on 6-3-2011 by The time lord because: spelling



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by YouNeedMt
reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


I don't waste my time reading books full of lies & methods of control, but i sure as hell like to prove the followers of them wrong.

It's irrelevant what source i got these exerts from, but no they were none of the sites you listed. These are statements written within the Qoran.

The apologists of Islam like to potray alot of the nastier parts of their religion as mistranslations, and truly any religion is open-ended in that manner.

Explain to me how the text i just posted from 65:4 in the Qoran was mistranslated.


Haha, I'm not religious, but nice generalization. Smart guy aren't you?

And no actually the source is very relevant to the credibility. The Quran has been (mind you) translated many many times, and while it is not part of a list of "versions" like the Bible is (no disrespect), but there are many different translations of it. Thus, source is very important, especially when a site/company makes a living by basically outing Muslims.

And nice generalization again. How about no more broad arguments. I will not say that "all muslim haters are x" if you stop generalizing so much. Religion is open to definition actually. It has a personal bias, just like everything else. It's part of what being human is.

And like I asked before, why don't you show me those quotes in full context from a reputable source? You seem to have memorized all of the names of the verses from the top of your head, so I'm going to have to assume that you have a great interest in believing that Muslims are the "antagonists" of our time.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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A couple days ago, I heard a senior Islamic teacher - I forgot the title of this moon-worshipping holy roller - but he was asked if his goal was Sharia law being the supreme law of the land here in the US, and he said "of course" that is the goal. To follow Allah's law.

Then asked if he wishes for women here in the US to wear Burkhas - and he said of course, that modesty was a must, and that it is required by law. Allah's law.

Then he was asked if he believed that adulterers should be beheaded, and of course he absolutely agreed with that.

This goal of Sharia in the US will require you to kill me and mine. Because we'll sure as hell smoke those who would attempt to push such a law, such a barbaric religion down our throats.

It will be another holy war. That's the only way it's going to happen.

One other item. I would suggest that you only recently converted to Islam. Given time, these Mullah's cultivate and begin to teach more and more from the Hadith. Another canker on the ass of humanity.

So while you may not be out taking scalps now, sooner or later you will positively be required to.

Thing is, your base is not a bunch of backward-assed Easterners who will swallow anything, and basically lay down for anyone.

Here in the West, you'll have to kill us first.

And that stuff cuts both ways once it gets started.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by trumpetthief1
 





The constant agressor in this conflict has been Israel. To say anything otherwise is just ridiculous.


You might want to know something about the facts, before you say "Israel is always the aggressor".

Lets look at the 7 wars Israel fought, and who was the aggressor.

1948 War of Independance: Initiated by Egypt
Sinai War: Israel
6 day War: Egypt
1968-1970 War: Egypt
Yom Kippur War: suprise attack on the Jewish day of repentance by Egypt
1st Lebanon War: PLO militants hiding out in southern Lebanon. Unless you consider rocket attacks that killed hundreds of civilians as not being a provocation to war, than i suppose Israel started it.
2nd Lebanon war: Hizbollah. Again, unless you can find the terrorists of Hizbollah innocent for killing 15 Israelis and 4 Israeli soldiers, than i suppose Israel was the "aggressor" for going into Lebanon to stop this injustice against the Israeli people.

Now, we can also look at individual uprisings: 1st and 2nd Intafada, which killed upwards of 2,000 Israeli CIVILIANS. Who were the aggressors here? Again, the PLO, Fatah and Hamas. The Arabs killed by the IDF were mostly militants who in anycase were terrorists attacking Israel citizens, woman and children, thus forcing Israels hand.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

And just to show the lack of Palestinian unity (and overall Arab hostility), during the 1st Intifada, "Approximately 1,000 Palestinians* killed by Palestinians", which is the same number killed by the IDF, and during the 2nd intifada "609 Palestinians killed by Palestinians".


First off, I was speaking specifically of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Just so I know, what was your take on the Flotilla Incident?

www.ifamericansknew.org... - Speaking specifically of deaths, the amount of Palestinian deaths have been far greater. Falling back on the often used argument that "Palestinians have been killing a lot of their own people" is ridiculous. Of course, it has happened, but the breakdowns in deaths show that these deaths have been directly related to Israeli attacks. Of course, I am speaking of Israel, and not the Jewish community as a whole (awesome people).

And from recent events, you can look at: The Flotilla Incident, The Gaza Blockade, The Settlement problems as recent initiations of war done directly by Israel.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
A couple days ago, I heard a senior Islamic teacher - I forgot the title of this moon-worshipping holy roller - but he was asked if his goal was Sharia law being the supreme law of the land here in the US, and he said "of course" that is the goal. To follow Allah's law.

Then asked if he wishes for women here in the US to wear Burkhas - and he said of course, that modesty was a must, and that it is required by law. Allah's law.

Then he was asked if he believed that adulterers should be beheaded, and of course he absolutely agreed with that.

This goal of Sharia in the US will require you to kill me and mine. Because we'll sure as hell smoke those who would attempt to push such a law, such a barbaric religion down our throats.

It will be another holy war. That's the only way it's going to happen.

One other item. I would suggest that you only recently converted to Islam. Given time, these Mullah's cultivate and begin to teach more and more from the Hadith. Another canker on the ass of humanity.

So while you may not be out taking scalps now, sooner or later you will positively be required to.

Thing is, your base is not a bunch of backward-assed Easterners who will swallow anything, and basically lay down for anyone.

Here in the West, you'll have to kill us first.

And that stuff cuts both ways once it gets started.


Oh nice, a random cleric speaks for 1.7 billion people. Your argument was broken from the beginning. Muslim extremism is a clear problem, but dumbasses like yourself do absolutely nothing positive in fixing the problem.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by YouNeedMt
reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


So the flaw in the argument that muslims condone their religion is that we as a people have a government that partakes in war?

THAT IS SO !$()&$@(&* IGNORANT MAN!! I don't read a text book and worship the laws my government has put into place, therefor there is a HUGE difference between me and a muslim man. What do i want your father to do? I don't want your father to do anything dude, but i want people who worship a book containing & condoning disgusting acts of cruelty to get out of my country.

Just as I'd like to remove ANY pedophiles & murderers from my country. But Islam doesn't consider these people as infidels, they consider those who disagree with their text infidels. And the infidels should be annihilated. :/


You're delusional. You haven't addressed a single thing I've said. You jump into your "Muslims love pedophiles" arguments. You did not cite sources.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by trumpetthief1
 

Just for the record, that God of Abraham?

His prophets prophecied that those Palestinians, Syrians - especially Damascus, Jordanians - and Ammon, and those of Gaza will be absolutely, positively destroyed.

Not Egypt. Not Saudi Arabia.

The ones mentioned.

So, I'd not be too worried about the Israeli/Palestinian troubles. This God of Abraham indicates it's not going to be worth the worry. The die is already cast.

According to HIM.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Dude i'm not jumping into the muslims are pedophiles argument, i'm just explaining to you that I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTS OF MY GOVERNMENT THEREFOR I AM NOT GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

Just as a muslim man is not guilty of the actions of his brothers.

My argument is that he IS guilty of supporting the actions within the Qoran such as PAEDOPHILIA.

And you haven't disproved my quote from 65:4 so before you write off my argument, PLEASE DO SO.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


Oh and as for muslims loving paedophiles, no. I said that the Qoran condones paedophilia.

Why do i need sources when i'm telling you my personal opinion? I already listed what parts of the Qoran were in question in my previous quotes, therefor the Qoran is my source.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


I'd be happy to answer you to the best of my abilities:

1) Democracy and Christianity are in no way related especially since we're talking about the same current political system which specifies separation of church and state.

2) I would speak out simply because God says in the Qur'an that "there is no compulsion in religion". We can't force anything on anyone, especially non muslims.

3) I would because it's not a part of the faith.

4) That's not mentioned in the Qur'an so I'm content with sending him/her to jail.

5) No, because I believe the diversity (if peaceful) if better for the world.

6) What's wrong with it? Was it forcably made vacant or did the church congregation move out and get a new building? If everythings legal then I see no issue.

7) Just as people here allow masjids with eastern architecture I feel like it should be allowed in majority muslim lands. The way of the world has changed and the idea of a region/country for such and such a religion is whack.

8) Yea I would because you shouldn't look for society to bend for you, you should work with society especially when it's not quite laid out in your favor.

9) That's a political issue and I'd like to refrain from it. However I will say that if they can coexist peacefully that would be the best thing.

10) It's believed that the Torah was "edited" but we still believe that in it's original form it was the true word of God.

11) My PERSONAL belief which can be supported by certain Qur'anic verses is that one who believes in God is a believer. The Qur'anic non believer is the idolators of Arabia and such. I believe we all worship the same God from different angles or in different forms and with that everyone should stand together. As long as you believe in God I feel like you can be forgiven your sins, and see heaven.

12) See #11

13) Well actually he will help wipe out those standing behind the anti-christ who will CALL themselves Jews. I believe this is in reference to zionists.

14) Good question. I'd definitely pray on that situation and do whatever my heart is inclined to do by Gods grace. That's a difficult situation simply due to the end times prophecies for muslims. lol



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


Thanks but I've been muslim for 19 years. Glad you THINK you know things based off of an interview with ONE idiot.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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There's no such thing as a moderate Muslim. All Muslims are extremist by strict definition. It is the requisite of Islam for a Muslim to align oneself with the Koran in order to be a Muslim. The Koran is packed with verses of hatred and calls to violence. It's a blood book of evil and it can no longer hide itself from the eyes of scrutiny that belong to the ever increasing mindset of civility that our species is progressing towards on its transcendental conscious evolution.

To align oneself with Islam and the Koran makes said person an extremist Muslim by simple definition. Let's not differentiate between someone who is an extremist Muslim and simply a Muslim, they are identical, there is no difference.

You can't pick and choose Islamic ideology to appease the current moral values and civilised standards within the timeline in which you reside. You're either an extremist Muslim or you're not A Muslim. If you don't align yourself with Islamic ideology in its completeness then you cease to be a Muslim and are simply faithful to nothing else but your own hypocrisy and confusion.

I am opposed to all religions, Islam just so happens to be taking the lead as the most volatile of the three monotheistic religions at this moment in time. A threat to human life, and possibly even a threat to our species if people don’t wake up and see what’s happening before it’s too late to do anything about it.

Religion – The cancer of mankind.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by craig732
I accuse you of lying.


edit on 6-3-2011 by craig732 because: (no reason given
edit on 6-3-2011 by craig732 because: (no reason given)


I accuse you of being a troll.


I am a troll because I answered a direct challenge from the OP? He said to do it, and I did. extra DIV



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by trumpetthief1
 


How am I to find a reputable source when the text is so open to translation? The closest thing to truth i can find within this religion is the direct & literal translation of the text.

And لَمْ يَحِضْنَ translates to 'not menstruated yet' as i aforementioned. Check out this source's argument on the matter -

www.wikiislam.net...



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