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I'm a muslim. I'm not violent/radical. Tell me I'm lying!

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posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by craig732
 


Same goes for Christianity then. Please tell me where in the Bible it talks about killing homosexuals? Yet, we have the Family and the Ugandan killings of homosexuals.

Pretty sure the Bible talks this and that about being usurious, but we live it everyday.

Turn the other cheek...or bomb the crap out of tangentially related and/or similar-looking or -sounding ethnic groups...I guess that works, too!




posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Lynda101
 


Hello to you too! I agree with you also.

Though this religious indoctrination you describe also sounds like training for an MK Ultra (brainwashed) agent.
All nasty mind control. When you compare these incidences per ca-pita...I mean take the whole number of Muslims there are and then count extremists proportionately... I expect you to find all religions equally adept at churning out the crazies.

Sometimes I think people start religious wars for wars sake.
It has nothing to do with religion.
It has to do with machine manufacture and sales and control of world limited resources.

Though I could be wrong (it happens) and I get your point. Peace.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by arollingstone
 


I think her point is that muslims from Muslim countries are fundamentally in a different category than muslims born in the west.

For instance, a Muslim from Qatar, or Bahrain, or UAE, on the whole despise Jews. Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Indoneisia actually have laws forbidding Jews from entering their countries. Yet, a 'moderate' Muslim from the west would probably not share their views. But the issue is, how many Muslims live in the Muslim world, and how many live in Europe, America, Canada and Australia? As such a small percentage of the world muslim populations, they "the majority" probably wouldnt consider this divergent minority authentic Muslims.


Lol UAE? Have you ever been? Emiratis are extremely moderate. Bahrainis too.

Ok maybe there's a bit of hostility between Arabs and Israelis, but that's more political than religious. Besides, plenty of Israelis hate Arabs. Then again, many Arabs and Israelis can see through the propaganda - Arabs have more of a problem with the Israeli government than the Israeli people. It's not a case of 'Arabs hate Jews - the end'.

The truth is that many Muslims in those countries (Saudi and maybe Qatar to a lesser extent) are very moderate, but to be honest even a lot of Saudis put on a really religious front for social acceptance but behind the scenes aren't that religious. Have you never seen a Pakistani or Saudi buying a bottle of whiskey at the airport and requesting a non-transparant bag? I've seen it a lot! The way Muslims view it, if someone declares that there's only one God and Muhammad is his prophet, then they're a Muslim - that's all you need to qualify.

This is nonsense, having people who've never lived in a Muslim country or amongst Muslims telling everyone as a fact that this is the case. As I keep saying, only uneducated villagers and fanatics think in the manner that you're presenting.
edit on 6-3-2011 by arollingstone because: grammar



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by KingKeever1611
 


Anyone is born into their religion (or lack thereof) and as adults do have the option of leaving it behind for another (or none at all).

I think the whole descendency from Abraham is a bit metaphorical, don't you? I mean, not all Muslims are Arabs nor are all Christians from the Levant. So...yeah, not genetic.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Hey, new member wanting to chime in that it is unfortunately mostly only people with negative things to say that chime in about things. I chime in whether positive or negative, but usually most people seem to feel the need to actually post only if they have a negative viewpoint. You almost never hear people on messageboards posting about how they love the site, love the moderators, etc, but there's usually countless posts about how they hate things. Just pointing this out so that you know there are likely a whole slew of ATS members that aren't as biased as all the negative posts would have you think. Some of us are intelligent, open-minded people that are aware the percentage of extremist violent Muslims is about the same percentage of extremist violent Christians or violent extremists found in any other walk of life. Do your thing, man, and keep on trying to live a peaceful life. Don't be interrupted by nonsense. Much love no matter the deity/pantheon/lack thereof



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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For those whom are accusing the OP for not being a faithful muslim in that he/she doesnt kill, discriminate, tyrannise, etc, etc, and everything against every different scripture written in the Koran meant for during a turbulent time, I would plead that you read up and understand every aspect of the Islamic faith before you hurl any stone or accuse with a splinter in your eye.

Every aspect of ANY religion preaches and appeals to the good in humankind. Religion had never been intended to kill, hurt or maim one another unnecessarily, and even if it was meant to be, it was meant during an era when mankind was far different than what we are today.

There will be extremists of ANY religion that will pounced upon such words uttered during those turbulent times, and use it to achieve their own agendas, using the uneducated faithful to religion as a cover for their insidious gains.

We had seen it happened with Al Queda, the taliban, etc,.
We had seen it happened with Westboro, KKK, black panthers, and other sects.
We had seen it happened with nazi polically indoctrinated zionists
We had seen it happened with lip servicing christian corporations.
We had seen it happened with greedy atheists whom will not hesitate to rob a buck off his fellow man.
etc.

So because of the minority that had corrupted the beauty, wisdom, peace, comfort and solace of religions, we are to freely accused them of being less than faithful, for NOT following extremism, but only seeking for the common aspirations of humanity as our Creator had intended us all to????



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Studying religion is stupid.


Science > Religion.
You can't go to the moon just by reading the bible.

Anybody who believes in religion is a nut, who the hell believes in a thousand year old book from some ugly goat herders?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by star child
 


You seem to be confused.

Islam may prohibt usury aganst Muslims, but it concedes more than enough with regard to the Dhimmi. So unless you plan on converting to Islam, dont imagine Islam is all nice and peachy with everyone else.

Islam has an absolutely horrendous history of oppressing Christians and Jews (and no, do not bring up Spain. Spain was simply one province in a vast Islamic empire. They only played 'nice' in spain due to the large Jewish and Christian populations, which required them to water down their ideology towards the Kuffar).

In Morocco for instance Jews were required to wear a special badge (which was later imported to Christian europe) to differentiate them from Muslims. Jews, and all Dhimmi have no legal rights. If a Muslim makes a claim against you he is automatically deemed justified. In some muslim countries, a Jew had to pass by a Muslim on his left - by law (to signify the satan). One also has no no inalienable rights to property, and for Jews in particular, they were forced to live in rundown ghettos on the outskirts of the Town/city.

Even today the oppression of Christians in Muslims countries is legendary. Take the Copts in Egypt, or Catholics in Iraq, Iran or Syria. It is downright dangerous being a Christian, or G-d forbid, a Jew in a Islamic country.

Its an incredibly oppressive culture to live under if youre not a Muslim.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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The Qur'an says not to take Jews and Christians as your friends:

Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.

Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

There really isn't anyway to prove that this person is a Muslim or that they are or are not lying. This thread should be locked.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by star child
 


Islam has an absolutely horrendous history of oppressing Christians and Jews (and no, do not bring up Spain. Spain was simply one province in a vast Islamic empire. They only played 'nice' in spain due to the large Jewish and Christian populations, which required them to water down their ideology towards the Kuffar).


Let's not mention the Crusades, the Inquisitions, or the crucifixion of Jesus either eh?

Notice how quick everyone is to say 'not all Jews are Zionists' yet they go on to assume that 'all Muslims are fanatics, otherwise they are not Muslims'. How irrational can you get?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by hawaii50th
 


Actually, according to Jewish tradition (which predates both christianity and islam), all three groups are descended from Abraham. Muslims, being the progeny of Ishmael, and Christians the progeny of Esau. The Talmud refers to Rome as Edom (who is Esau).


To say Christians are the progeny of Esau is not accurate at all. Anyone can be a Christian, to sincerely accept Jesus Christ as ones Lord and Savior makes one a Christian.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Its good that you are against radicals but would you consider yourself to be a strict fanatical Muslim?

Are you obsessed with the Faith?

Do you feel free?

IMO you won't ever be completely free unless you take the label off your back and do what you want to do.... not have someone or some book dictate to you how you should behave.... you can still be spiritual and believe.

One last question if i may.... what is your true goal, not you personally but the Muslims or Islamic Faith? Is it to turn every Country they live in into an Islamic one? Is it to keep outnumbering other Faiths and people by producing offspring from many wives?


edit on 6-3-2011 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: adding text



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus

There really isn't anyway to prove that this person is a Muslim or that they are or are not lying. This thread should be locked.


Yes, I agree, there is no way to prove or disprove the OP, so this thread should be locked, because we are on AboveTopSecre.. oh, wait. Nevermind. Please do not go around locking threads that can't be proven or disproven because I want to actually be able to post on a single solitairy thread at the least.

I don't think the OP was actually looking for proof.. the point they were making seemed to be that they felt negatively judged due to subscribing to one of the planet's largest religions that is mostly made up of normal peaceful folk like the rest of us. Don't see a problem there.

There's lots of Old Testament crap in the Christian Holy Book, too, yanno..

People just want to find something wrong with someone else. Why doesn't everyone use all that strategic creative thinking to help prove how the media is using mind control tactics instead of trying to rip apart some fellow ATS dude because of his belief system..



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by arollingstone
 


Way to ignore my point about Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia prohibitting Jews from entering those coutnries, let alone living in those countries.

And theyre only anti-israel? Which is why they have these laws?

Here. Take a look at PalestineMediaWatch.com and tell me that it is only Israel the Arabs dislike.

It is simply Jews. Jews and that is it. You can pretend otherwise or maybe youre just ignorant, but the underlying issue with the Jews living or claiming an infinitesimal portion of the levant is rooted in a hatred for Judaism, and for Jews, and a perception of Jewish encroachment on Islamic territory (regardless of the fact that Israel is historically Jewish, as the thousands of Hebrew inscripted graves, relics and holy sites give testiment to)

Living in the countries is one thing, educating yourself through READING important materials, like "from time immemorial", "in Ishmaels House" etc. gives you and understanding of the history of the relationship between Muslims and Jews.

What you wrote was so unbelievably absurd. Saudi Arabia is moderate? In what loony toon world is saudi Arabia moderate? Is the Muslim Brotherhood, also moderate? Is Al Qaeda moderate? And as for Israelis hating Arabs. That is a purely secular hatred for a people they percieve to hate them with a religious fervor. On the hand, Arabs are on the whole muslims, and in Wahibi Saudi Arabia, which fosters the most violently totalitarian Islamic theology, hatred for Israel is hatred for the JEWS. Hence why they wont allow Jews, PERIOD to even visit Saudi Arabia. This has even provided complications early on in Aramcos (the oil company) business dealings with Ibn Saud, since some of their employees were Jews. Muslims in general have a seething disgust for Jews, and Judaism.

Now, in the west, there are definitely Muslims who dislike these ideas. I know a few of them myself. But in Islamic countries, the vast majority are not like this. In the more politicized countries, like the PA, or Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, or Iran (and yes, living in Iran for a Jew still has its perils) or Egypt, which is even worse than Saudia Arabia (Egypt has some 90 million vociferous antisemites) Jew hatred is normal and natural. Arabs are also clever though. When talking to a westerner, they'll pretend its only Israel and the injustices of Israel that they dislike. They play politiks well, after all, war is deception. But beneath all that, they dont want Jews in the middleeast, let alone a Jewish state.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by arollingstone

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by star child
 


Islam has an absolutely horrendous history of oppressing Christians and Jews (and no, do not bring up Spain. Spain was simply one province in a vast Islamic empire. They only played 'nice' in spain due to the large Jewish and Christian populations, which required them to water down their ideology towards the Kuffar).


Let's not mention the Crusades, the Inquisitions, or the crucifixion of Jesus either eh?

Notice how quick everyone is to say 'not all Jews are Zionists' yet they go on to assume that 'all Muslims are fanatics, otherwise they are not Muslims'. How irrational can you get?


I think a lot of people realize that not all Muslims a hard core and that there also are the moderates. It's like that in every religion, it's like that with just about every type of organization.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Yeah but it wasn't just fanatic Christians in the 900s that were going around cannibalising Jews and Muslims, playing soccer games with their decapitated heads, etcetera.. it was a good chunk of the "Defenders of the Faith" engaged in the Crusades.. If you all are going to speak out against something then can we start a new thread about how humans are corrupt, vicious, gits all around and no wonder we don't have friendly aliens gifting us with spaceships en masse?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by arollingstone
 


yes, the fabled crucifiction of Jesus, is compeltely consonant with crusades, inquisition, perpetuated in the name of Jesus, and as worthy punishment for the Jews (1/3rd of european Jewry were wiped out through the crusades).

Islam and Christianity are by themselves in the cruelty department. Judaism has no history of that.
edit on 6-3-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by arollingstone
 


Islam and Christianity are by themselves in the cruelty department. Judaism has no history of that.


Apparently, you haven't heard of the Jewish mafia. Don't laugh, they are probably the scariest mafia out there, especially concerning torture tactics.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus
The Qur'an says not to take Jews and Christians as your friends:

Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.

Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

There really isn't anyway to prove that this person is a Muslim or that they are or are not lying. This thread should be locked.


SO WHAT?!

I can qoute you a whole lot of text from the Old Testaments in the Bible and even every narrow mind rabbitical qoute that says the same thing.

But did it stop any of other strangers from buying a pizza to feed another of another faith thousands of miles away in solidarity and comradeship?

Did it stop any strangers from donating hard earned money, food and clothes to strangers of another faith in need?

The only constant in life is change. And it is a new world that a new generation had inherited, set free after centuries of lies, deceptions and manipulations by greedy others.

We cannot change the past, but we still have time to change the future, not by discarding our true heritage that makes us strong, but realizing and comprehending the truths in every verse of sacred text, separating the seed from the chafes, understanding the value and true meaning meant during that era, for our eventual evolution and destiny.

And that fulfillment begins with you and me today. We have more commonalities than differences, religious or atheists.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by unitedstatesoftheinternet
 


That has no more to do with Judaism than the conventional mafia (who claims to be catholic, and as the p2 scandal showed, had financial/business connections to the catholic church) is representative of Christianity. Atleast in the case of the latter, they claim to be catholic, whereas these Jewish 'mobsters' are secular with no interest at all in Judaism.



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