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OK say I came to one of you and said I had had an experience of seeing a UFO, and then had missing time, and I was very disturbed about something but I don't know what. Just what would you recommend me do?
Originally posted by IsaacKoi
As some of you may know, ufo/abduction researcher Budd Hopkins' former wife (Carol Rainey) has recently been rather critical of Budd's research.
She has now released a video (which she has stated is the first in a series) about the research methods used by some of the leading UFO abduction investigators--research that is:
"flawed in methodology, can be unsafe for subjects, lacks oversight, and is even unethical, at times".
And that was that, as far as Mack was concerned, until some 20 years later, when a friend invited him to meet Budd Hopkins. Hopkins, a New York artist and sculptor, is one of the leading investigators of reports by individuals who claim to have been abducted by UFOs "I said, 'Who's he?' - which shows you how familiar I was with the phenomenon," says Mack. When the friend explained Hopkins' work, Mack responded, "What, There must be something wrong with him and the people he meets with." But on January 10, 1990 -Mack remembers the date as if it were a birthday or an anniversary - the two men met and spent a few hours discussing the cases Hopkins had researched. The studies were compelling and unlike anything Mack had come across in nearly 40 years of clinical psychiatric work; he knew immediately that the final word on UFOs no longer rested with Sagan and the Condon Committee. "I came away somewhat shaken and fascinated," he says of the meeting with Hopkins. "It was a mystery. I'd never taken abductions seriously at all. I realized at this point that this was something I had no way to explain."
www.johnemackinstitute.org...
Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Carol Rainey states that the video "tells the story of how one key witness was discovered to be a clever (but not totally resolved) hoax".
Originally posted by Kandinsky
Based on the footage from the point where ‘Kimball’ claimed to have seen the incident, it seems unlikely that she could have seen what she claimed to have seen. Imagine that distance at 3am, night-time, and being able to identify not only human figures, but what they were wearing too?
Originally posted by IsaacKoi
The series of videos promised by Carol Rainey is certain to increase the (already rather considerable) amount of controversy - even amongst ufologist - regarding alien abduction research. In particular, it is likely to cause renewed questioning about the use of hypnosis in such research.
Here in England, the use of hypnosis was suspended by the main national UFO research group (BUFORA) many years ago. Several other UFO groups and researchers in England have a similar policy of avoiding the use of hypnosis due to the dangers involved.
Few American groups and researchers have, so far as I am aware, adopted a similar policy (although I'd be in hearing about any groups that have done so
The series of videos promised by Carol Rainey is certain to increase the (already rather considerable) amount of controversy - even amongst ufologist - regarding alien abduction research.
In particular, it is likely to cause renewed questioning about the use of hypnosis in such research.
More commonly, abductees report what Mack calls a "margin of consciousness," where memory recalls an experience to a certain point and then blanks out, leaving individuals with chunks of unaccounted-for time.
Under hypnosis, a practice criticized by disbelievers but defended by Mack as an important tool for uncovering repressed information, experiencers are taken back to the last moment they consciously remember, such as the appearance of a small being in their bedroom or the presence of a blue light.
www.johnemackinstitute.org...
Originally posted by Heliocentric
reply to post by IsaacKoi
I think you started this thread in an unfortunate way by headlining it "The creation of the Abduction Phenomenon" (it might come from Carol Rainey though),
Originally posted by Heliocentric
The phenomenon historically goes back to the biblical age and before that.
Originally posted by Heliocentric
It basically boils down to that one hand-writing expert, solicited by Rainey, claims that the hand-writing on an envelope containing a corroborating witness statement ("The Woman On The Bridge", Janet Kimball) sent to Hopkins actually belongs to Linda Napolitano, which is the person who was supposedly abducted. Therefore it raises the question whether the witness was invented by Napolitano, which then would rock the whole case Hopkins has been trying to build. As any good debunker would say, "When in doubt throw it out". Right? Well...
If I was a lawyer or an attorney, I would probably ask the opinion of other hand-writing experts, because they do not always reach the same conclusions. That's what a real investigator would do, just to do the job thoroughly.
Originally posted by Heliocentric
De Cuellar has been given many opportunities to deny the incident, when confronted by Hopkins and other investigators. As far as I know he has never done so, which is what I would do if it was just an invented story.
In "Unidentified Fascist Observatories", John Judge asserts that Adamski was an asset of the CIA, who in his lecture tours throughout the 50's and 60's dispersed disinfo on behalf of the Company.www.conspiracyarchive.com...
The Robertson Panel thus concluded what Walter B. Smith, then Director of the CIA, had stated in a Memo to the Director of the Psychological Warfare Board regarding UFOs: “I suggest that we discuss at an early board meeting the possible offensive or defensive utilisation of these phenomenon for psychological warfare purposes.” Source
...The idea that contactees such as Adamski should have been spreading their message with the blessing – and backing – of the CIA seems, at first, bizarre. However, when we consider the very real benefits for psychological warfare purposes of setting up and monitoring such experiments into the way that cult beliefs spread, and the influence that they have over certain segments of the population, the motive becomes apparent.
Still, the claims of the contactees adhered to a very specific format: individuals who make extremely unlikely claims and whom we have to believe, or not, as telling the truth. Since the 1950s, the contactee stories have largely been substituted with the “abductee” stories, which are far more subtle.
In short, rather than a person making a personal claim, it is now an “expert” who claims to have made a detailed study of someone, and finds that this person is genuine and has indeed been abducted – often against his own will and normally even without his knowledge – by alien beings, for unknown purposes.
Whereas Dulles had to personally intervene when people began to question the likes of Adamski, trying to get him to admit or prove his hoax in court, the introduction of the abductee scenario has annihilated this type of dissection and possible discreditation of the abductees, their stories and the movement...Source
...Davidson felt that Adamski himself reported tell-tale examples of government “steering” – and was aware of their involvement: “Late in 1949 four men came into the café at Palomar Gardens. Two of them had been in before and we had talked a little about the flying saucers. We began talking about flying saucers again.
One of these men was Mr. J.P. Maxfield, and another was his partner, Mr. G.I. Bloom, both of the Point Loma Navy Electronics Laboratory near San Diego. The other two men were from a similar setup in Pasadena. One was in officer’s uniform. They asked me if I would co-operate with them in trying to get photographs of strange craft moving through space…
And finally the moon was decided upon as a good spot for careful observation… And it was not too long after this meeting that I succeeded in getting what I deemed at the time to be two good pictures of an object moving through space. I first saw it as I was observing the moon.” What an amazing coincidence, that a UFO appeared where these military officers stated Adamski should look towards…Source
...(At that stage, the Hills remembered only the UFO sighting, not the abduction.) Within 24 hours, Keyhoe had arranged for the Hills to be visited by top-level scientists, including C.D. Jackson, who had previously (definitely not coincidentally) worked on psychological warfare techniques for President Eisenhower. Stretching coincidence far beyond breaking point, Jackson already knew Major MacDonald, with whom he next interviewed the Hills.
Most importantly, it was Jackson who drew the Hills' attention to their missing time period; until he did so, the couple had not realized that their memories of that fateful night were incomplete.
It was Jackson who suggested hypnotic regression as a means of unlocking it. It was Jackson who then arranged for one of the Army's top psychiatric experts to undertake the regression (as if a civilian expert was not available?), under which the full story of the joint abduction “emerged”.
However, as many researchers have since demonstrated, a careful review of the timings actually shows that there was no missing time at all...www.philipcoppens.com...
Originally posted by cripmeister
Originally posted by Heliocentric
De Cuellar has been given many opportunities to deny the incident, when confronted by Hopkins and other investigators. As far as I know he has never done so, which is what I would do if it was just an invented story.
This doesn't mean anything. Why should he even care what some fringe writer says?
Originally posted by Heliocentric
Originally posted by cripmeister
Originally posted by Heliocentric
De Cuellar has been given many opportunities to deny the incident, when confronted by Hopkins and other investigators. As far as I know he has never done so, which is what I would do if it was just an invented story.
This doesn't mean anything. Why should he even care what some fringe writer says?
The point I'm making here is, if you're a public person and someone walks up to you and asks if you were a witness to an extraterrestial kidnapping - assuming the whole thing was a pure invention - wouldn't you deny it?
What could the motives be not to deny it, if it wasn't true? By refusing to give a straight answer (de Cuellar has received the question on numerous occasions) you expose yourself to speculation, it would not be in his interest.
On the other hand, if de Cuellar was witness to an extraterrestial kidnapping, he could simply be a sufficiently honest man not wanting to luy about it, but nevertheless not wanting to go public about it, which would mean exposing himself to ridicule and thereby weakening his political position.
I remember a certain Fife Symington ridiculing the Phoenix Lights incident while being Governor of Arizona, then admitting he had seen the UFO when he was retired from politics...
Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by spacevisitor
Since our program was the one to break Rainey's story, I can tell you she's an impeccable, honest individual and is not involved in any "disinformation" plot. Her article "Priests of High Strangeness" is on our website within the free preview of our magazine (which you can download for free) - it contains more information about other cases as well.
Originally posted by spacevisitor
Could it be that perhaps disinformation is at work here?
Originally posted by spacevisitor
When I look very closely to how Budd Hopkins name is written in this picture which I took out of that video, I see no undisputable clear resemblance between both handwritings which would prove that both are written by Janet Kimball.
Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Carol Rainey states that the video "tells the story of how one key witness was discovered to be a clever (but not totally resolved) hoax".
Originally posted by jritzmann
.
I'd have been suspicious even getting 2 drawings in the same medium like that.
Originally posted by Snippy23
reply to post by Heliocentric
For anyone who wants to read a well-researched, intelligent, and generally devastating analysis of the 'Linda Cortile' case, I don't think you'll do better than 'A Critique of Budd Hopkins' Case of the UFO Abduction of Linda Napolitano' by Joseph J. Stefula, Richard D. Butler, and George P. Hansen (1993). You can find it at
www.tricksterbook.com...
It highlights the very odd development of the case and its alleged witnesses, and of all the claims made by Budd Hopkins, it probably crushes most clearly the supposed involvement of Perez de Cuellar.
It's quite a long article, but it really is worth your time!
Similarities Between the Linda Napolitano Case and the Science Fiction Novel Nighteyes
* Linda was abducted into a UFO hovering over her high-rise apartment building in New York City.
Sarah was abducted into a UFO hovering over her high-rise apartment building in New York City.
* Dan and Richard initially claimed to have been on a stakeout and were involved in a UFO abduction in during early morning hours.
Early in Nighteyes two government agents were on a stakeout and became involved in a UFO abduction during early morning hours.
* Linda was kidnapped and thrown into a car by Richard and Dan.
Wendy was kidnapped and thrown into a van by Derek and Merril.
* Linda claimed to have been under surveillance by someone in a van.
Vans were used for surveillance in Nighteyes.
* Dan is a security and intelligence agent.
Derek was an FBI agent.
* Dan was hospitalized for emotional trauma.
One of the government agents in Nighteyes was hospitalized for emotional trauma.
* During the kidnapping Dan took Linda to a safe house.
During the kidnapping Derek took Wendy to a safe house.
* The safe house Linda visited was on the beach.
In Nighteyes, one safe house was on the beach.
* Before her kidnapping, Linda contacted Budd Hopkins about her
abduction.
Before her kidnapping, Wendy contacted Charles Edward Starr about her abduction.
* Budd Hopkins is a prominent UFO abduction researcher living in New York City and an author who has written books on the topic.
Charles Edward Starr was a prominent UFO abduction researcher living in New York City and an author who had written books on the topic.
www.tricksterbook.com...
…In our judgment, conscious hoaxes are rare in the abduction field. The vast majority of those claiming to be abducted have had some kind of intense personal experience, whatever the ultimate cause. Nevertheless, the problems of fraud and hoaxing have long been a problem in ufology, especially for cases with high visibility.
This will continue. Researchers must become more open minded to the potential for hoaxing, yet not be blinded to the genuine phenomena...
www.tricksterbook.com...