america is divided right down the centre. civil war might not be a fantasy if something were to provoke both sides into a conflict with each other
Here comes "The Squeeze"...are you going to stand by your fellow Americans?, page 4
reply posted on 5-3-2011 @ 08:15 PM by David9176
reply to post by Southern Guardian
We've alI been wrong. I know where you are coming from SG. All one has to do is look at my long history here and the things I used to post. Although I was anti-bailout.....i was completely in the tank for right wing rhetoric. I admit it and I believe it has hurt my credibility on this website for how much I have changed since then. People that i used to converse with on here simply will not comment on anything I write.
At one time I was advocating eliminating SS and medicare...something my father relies on as he simply cannot work due to medical conditions. What was wrong with me? It makes absolutely no sense.
You know David I supported bail outs of the auto industry believe my buddies would have their jobs saved, believing we had no choice, believing that we needed to take action to save this country... but it was all a scheme, a way to bail out wealthy folks.... I fooled myself, I was fooled with the bail out of wallstreet, and I am not afraid to admit this. People need to come to terms with the reality that this way of belief, this ideology of relying on the wealthy, it is a ponzi scheme and it eating this country alive.
We've alI been wrong. I know where you are coming from SG. All one has to do is look at my long history here and the things I used to post. Although I was anti-bailout.....i was completely in the tank for right wing rhetoric. I admit it and I believe it has hurt my credibility on this website for how much I have changed since then. People that i used to converse with on here simply will not comment on anything I write.
At one time I was advocating eliminating SS and medicare...something my father relies on as he simply cannot work due to medical conditions. What was wrong with me? It makes absolutely no sense.
reply posted on 5-3-2011 @ 09:47 PM by desert
reply to post by David9176
It was not mean, dark hearted, or evil people who voted corporate loyalists into office. Good people with good intentions voted, often based on morals or faith, or led by leaders who gained their confidence, then conned/used them. These people were concerned about their family and country, and looked to politicians for solutions.
We all have had blinders on for something at some time or another, and having them ripped off can be scary, doubt causing, but in the end we are for the better.
I feel badly for family members who did everything they thought was right and have been trampled underfoot by this economy. A teenage mother who chose to have her baby, based on her religious beliefs, who dropped out of college when govt program $ ran out, who then married, but now both are unemployed and moving in with mother, who might lose her house when her income declined and her teaching job might get cut. Three generations in one house is nothing new, just not what Americans have been used to. And no doubt things will get worse with rising fuel prices.
Years ago, there was a very precious, sweet couple who owned a small business I worked for. One day the husband took me aside and apologized for his wife's rantings on certain topics. He said that he had been in the military and had seen more of the world, which made him more tolerant on topics his wife didn't understand.
Your generation certainly has been given a lot of poop to shovel. At least you recognize the poop for what it is.
It was not mean, dark hearted, or evil people who voted corporate loyalists into office. Good people with good intentions voted, often based on morals or faith, or led by leaders who gained their confidence, then conned/used them. These people were concerned about their family and country, and looked to politicians for solutions.
We all have had blinders on for something at some time or another, and having them ripped off can be scary, doubt causing, but in the end we are for the better.
I feel badly for family members who did everything they thought was right and have been trampled underfoot by this economy. A teenage mother who chose to have her baby, based on her religious beliefs, who dropped out of college when govt program $ ran out, who then married, but now both are unemployed and moving in with mother, who might lose her house when her income declined and her teaching job might get cut. Three generations in one house is nothing new, just not what Americans have been used to. And no doubt things will get worse with rising fuel prices.
Years ago, there was a very precious, sweet couple who owned a small business I worked for. One day the husband took me aside and apologized for his wife's rantings on certain topics. He said that he had been in the military and had seen more of the world, which made him more tolerant on topics his wife didn't understand.
Your generation certainly has been given a lot of poop to shovel. At least you recognize the poop for what it is.
. reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 01:10 AM by BlackOps719
reply to post by LeJimster
Barney Frank is the biggest slimeball lizard criminal to ever walk the face of this planet. Look at how he and the other shills mock Ron Paul as if he is insane for wanting transparency.
There is no win for the people when every elected official in our government is in bed with the people who are serving to rob us all blind. They are smug and confident in their beliefs that we will never be able to change anything.
Barney Frank is the biggest slimeball lizard criminal to ever walk the face of this planet. Look at how he and the other shills mock Ron Paul as if he is insane for wanting transparency.
There is no win for the people when every elected official in our government is in bed with the people who are serving to rob us all blind. They are smug and confident in their beliefs that we will never be able to change anything.
reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 01:28 AM by urmenimu2
reply to post by David9176
OP, would you say that the people of egypt and the people of libya "finally came together as a nation" during their squeeze?
perhaps its all relative to how hard the sqeeze is. right now, there is still plenty of blood being easily squeezed from "our rock" by the hands that hold "us".
OP, would you say that the people of egypt and the people of libya "finally came together as a nation" during their squeeze?
perhaps its all relative to how hard the sqeeze is. right now, there is still plenty of blood being easily squeezed from "our rock" by the hands that hold "us".
reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 11:14 AM by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by MaryStillToe
Unfortunately, you are correct. As long as people believed they could benefit from the oppression and mistreatment of others, it was fine. Only when it became apparent that they were going to be mistreated to did they care. And yes, this includes the middle class. Those who are still financially IN the "middle class" are not unhappy with the status quo. (Unless they are a philosopher or someone else who is thinking past their own self interest, which is rare in humans)
Those who are on the verge of falling out of the middle class, and those who HAVE fallen out of the middle class are those who are most unhappy.
Unfortunately, you are correct. As long as people believed they could benefit from the oppression and mistreatment of others, it was fine. Only when it became apparent that they were going to be mistreated to did they care. And yes, this includes the middle class. Those who are still financially IN the "middle class" are not unhappy with the status quo. (Unless they are a philosopher or someone else who is thinking past their own self interest, which is rare in humans)
Those who are on the verge of falling out of the middle class, and those who HAVE fallen out of the middle class are those who are most unhappy.
reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 11:17 AM by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by ladyinwaiting
It would help, but at this point you would have to amend the Constitution to remove corporate influence from our government.
There is a move to make a Constitutional amendment to dispense with the fallacy of corporate personhood, but that in and of itself would not remove all corporate money from campaigns.
It would help, but at this point you would have to amend the Constitution to remove corporate influence from our government.
There is a move to make a Constitutional amendment to dispense with the fallacy of corporate personhood, but that in and of itself would not remove all corporate money from campaigns.
reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 11:31 AM by desert
reply to post by odd1out
We were not wrong to "want more", but we were wrong in how we got that more. Our elders wanted more after the Great Depression and raised us on that more.
We went wrong in a few ways. We didn't think about the costs going into having that more. Costs being energy and human resources. We became complacent, resting on our laurels, like the hare in the race. We believed we elected leaders who had our best interest at heart.
Reagan did not tear down the Berlin Wall, but he tore down the solar panels on the White House signaling a return to a petroleum based economy. We now drink from plastic bottles and greatly use petroleum products, for which we must go to war over control of resources. We rebelled at conservation...who is to tell me how I should [ .... insert anything you feel govt was forcing you to do.... ] !!......which plays into corporate hands, as they ship our jobs offshore to make the products we desire cheaper using cheaper labor. And the products are cheaply made, forcing us to replace them more often, in an endless cycle.
Is that what we voted for? No. We voted to end abortion, run our country as a theocracy, stop gay marriage, stop teaching evolution, [...insert any other cultural wedge issue...]. We were told "We're Number 1 !!", as if we were in a stadium cheering as we watch a game being played, while outside our cars were being broken into and our valuables stolen.
We relied on a political party to help us keep our wealth, when politicians, increasingly beholden to corporate legal bribes, wrote policies that allowed our wealth to be stolen. We were told it's unAmerican (Communist, Marxist, Socialist!!) to put pressure/rise up, unless of course it's by a group formed by former elected officials with corporate ties. It's unAmerican to utter "social ....or economic....justice", as the social/economic table became increasingly tilted to where more of us fell off.
If anything, we became guilty of extreme naivety and lack of big ideas. We stopped dreaming, saying "what if". That, along with greed and selfishness, stopped us from realizing that to enter the 21st century we must reach out to other nations, not with guns or armies, but with big ideas and a willingness to help them in their quest to want more.
If we can help other nations have what they materially want but not at the cost we paid and not with an example of growing economic disparity, we'll all be better off.
We were not wrong to "want more", but we were wrong in how we got that more. Our elders wanted more after the Great Depression and raised us on that more.
We went wrong in a few ways. We didn't think about the costs going into having that more. Costs being energy and human resources. We became complacent, resting on our laurels, like the hare in the race. We believed we elected leaders who had our best interest at heart.
Reagan did not tear down the Berlin Wall, but he tore down the solar panels on the White House signaling a return to a petroleum based economy. We now drink from plastic bottles and greatly use petroleum products, for which we must go to war over control of resources. We rebelled at conservation...who is to tell me how I should [ .... insert anything you feel govt was forcing you to do.... ] !!......which plays into corporate hands, as they ship our jobs offshore to make the products we desire cheaper using cheaper labor. And the products are cheaply made, forcing us to replace them more often, in an endless cycle.
Is that what we voted for? No. We voted to end abortion, run our country as a theocracy, stop gay marriage, stop teaching evolution, [...insert any other cultural wedge issue...]. We were told "We're Number 1 !!", as if we were in a stadium cheering as we watch a game being played, while outside our cars were being broken into and our valuables stolen.
We relied on a political party to help us keep our wealth, when politicians, increasingly beholden to corporate legal bribes, wrote policies that allowed our wealth to be stolen. We were told it's unAmerican (Communist, Marxist, Socialist!!) to put pressure/rise up, unless of course it's by a group formed by former elected officials with corporate ties. It's unAmerican to utter "social ....or economic....justice", as the social/economic table became increasingly tilted to where more of us fell off.
If anything, we became guilty of extreme naivety and lack of big ideas. We stopped dreaming, saying "what if". That, along with greed and selfishness, stopped us from realizing that to enter the 21st century we must reach out to other nations, not with guns or armies, but with big ideas and a willingness to help them in their quest to want more.
If we can help other nations have what they materially want but not at the cost we paid and not with an example of growing economic disparity, we'll all be better off.
reply posted on 6-3-2011 @ 12:10 PM by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by desert
Good post.
But, I disagree that we have lost our creative edge. India and China are not the new big thing because they are coming up with things we have not, or cannot. They are the new big thing because the stuff we are still largely responsible for creating can be manufactured more cheaply there because of lower labor cost, (high supply of workers) and in the case of China, a government that flat out subsidizes industry to make it more competitive.
The other thing I have to disagree with is the idea the best thing we have to export is "wanting more."
"Wanting more" is a sickness when you have enough, and its a sickness that has infected America, and we are spreading that disease around the planet. Our politicians are corrupt because they want more, and so accept bribes. Our corporations pollute, strip jobs from our country, etc., because they want more in profits. CEO pay themselves exorbitant salaries because they want more, we Amercians turn a blind eye to the fact that our prosperity came in part because of the exploitation of weaker peoples because we want more.
When our species drives itself off a cliff, it will be because we want more. More stuff, more money, more security, more people.
We need to learn the lesson that happiness comes from being content with enough, and wanting more is "anti-happiness." The only way humanity is going to make it work here on Earth is if we learn to control that insatiable, irrational desire for more.
Good post.
But, I disagree that we have lost our creative edge. India and China are not the new big thing because they are coming up with things we have not, or cannot. They are the new big thing because the stuff we are still largely responsible for creating can be manufactured more cheaply there because of lower labor cost, (high supply of workers) and in the case of China, a government that flat out subsidizes industry to make it more competitive.
The other thing I have to disagree with is the idea the best thing we have to export is "wanting more."
"Wanting more" is a sickness when you have enough, and its a sickness that has infected America, and we are spreading that disease around the planet. Our politicians are corrupt because they want more, and so accept bribes. Our corporations pollute, strip jobs from our country, etc., because they want more in profits. CEO pay themselves exorbitant salaries because they want more, we Amercians turn a blind eye to the fact that our prosperity came in part because of the exploitation of weaker peoples because we want more.
When our species drives itself off a cliff, it will be because we want more. More stuff, more money, more security, more people.
We need to learn the lesson that happiness comes from being content with enough, and wanting more is "anti-happiness." The only way humanity is going to make it work here on Earth is if we learn to control that insatiable, irrational desire for more.
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