Here comes "The Squeeze"...are you going to stand by your fellow Americans?

The collapse is inevitable. The system is not physically sustainable. The question is whether the resolve will be based on love or fear.

If fear wins out, the rich will continue to fear what they view as inferiority and the middle and poor classes will fear what they view as superiority. If love wins out, the rich will wake up to the fact that inferiority is fake and the rest will wake up to the fact that superiority is fake.

I like to think that love is going to win out. Where intellectual authority will be shared and used to help those in need, instead of hoarding information to manipulate the weak.

I think when the majority has been beaten down enough by fear, we will wake up to the fact that identity is fake. We have lost ourselves as a whole. Sometimes it takes a traumatic experience to find ourselves. It's likely that that our self discovery will be a result of the suffering.

Once we find ourselves, individually or as a whole, we will realize that we are all ONE. We are one with the human race and one with the planet. The Earth is one living organism consisting of several micro organisms, just as your many different cells make up you. We have to realize that the needs of the individual have to be in harmony with the needs of the whole. When the needs and growth of the individual disregard the needs of the whole, we all know what that is....cancer!

As Krishnamurti says, "It's a conflict of consciousness." We have to stop fighting with each other and start letting love win out over fear. This is not just some hippie slogan or some dreamy idea from the 60s. It's the only way we will survive and support a quality life for our grand children and their grandchildren.

I keep hearing this LOVE thing. Maybe i am a little to unreachable at this point. I love my country, my fellow americans regardless of color or creed/origin. I was 'TAUGHT' not to covet, be happy with what you have, and make the best of what you dont. We are in our own little ant farm (EARTH) and TPTB have the magnifying glass.

Originally posted by Reflection

As Krishnamurti says, "It's a conflict of consciousness." We have to stop fighting with each other and start letting love win out over fear. This is not just some hippie slogan or some dreamy idea from the 60s. It's the only way we will survive and support a quality life for our grand children and their grandchildren.

I think that the way people use the word "love" is the problem, and I think they do use it like some dreamy 1960's idea.

"Love and fear" I would argue, translate into "acceptance and resistance." Acceptance of what is, includes accepting violence as part of life on Earth, and dealing with that. Not wishing it away by sticky flowers and unicorns on everything. I would argue the reason violence is spiraling out of control on Earth is because we take a fear based approach to violence itself, and are in denial of it. In other words, we dont love violence, we fear it, and what you fear tends to grow.

Now mind you, I am not advocating war. I am saying that only by acknowledging violence as a legitimate aspect of the human experience can we design systems that minimize it. Pretending it is an option, and that we can and will evolve past it by denying it is a huge part of the problem.

When this very unsustainable system we currently have collapses, both fear and love will play out. There will be war, and violence, and hate, and it will be ugly. And hopefully it will be so painful that we decide never to hide our head in illusions again, and we decide to deal with reality as it is, and design a system that works for people as they are, not as we wish them to be, and the world as it is, not how we think it can be.

reply to post by David9176


David I am frustrated that all I can do here is sit and S+F this OP of yours. What have said is so apparent and yet people are willfully ignorant. They do not want to admit the reality, nope, that'd be too inconvenient for the belief they had blindly stood behind all these years.

You know David I supported bail outs of the auto industry believe my buddies would have their jobs saved, believing we had no choice, believing that we needed to take action to save this country... but it was all a scheme, a way to bail out wealthy folks.... I fooled myself, I was fooled with the bail out of wallstreet, and I am not afraid to admit this. People need to come to terms with the reality that this way of belief, this ideology of relying on the wealthy, it is a ponzi scheme and it eating this country alive.

Neither am I friend , neither am I. hook line and sinker, the way they want it

reply to post by smallblockchevy


I think the mistake some of us make is thinking that we are powerless to TPTB..

Where do you think they get their power??

From us. It's because we don't know who we are. We are so afraid to know ourselves, we rely on TPTB to fill that void. So TPTB just feed our values that are in place of self discovery and self love. We choose to value that new car, that church, that mate, that job, that food, that bank account, etc...Anything and everything to keep us from having look at ourselves.

Until you love yourself, you're going to have a hard time understanding love.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Amen. Im proud of you as a human being for having the guts to say "I was wrong."

Most of us have at one time or another bought into the pyramid scheme that is our economic system. We are brainwashed from birth on to accept it, after all. There is no shame in having been duped. But there is a great need for us to shake it off, and work together to end this farce.

There is more at stake than just economic justice. This Ponzi or Pyramid scheme has a lethal ending for the majority of the worlds people, and thats not an exaggeration of the truth. Just like more localized Ponzis or Pyramids collapse disastrously because the infinite recruiting at the lowest levels fails, it will do the same on a global scale. The big difference being that in order to keep the game afloat, producing more people has been part of the strategy, and we have passed the Earths natural carrying capacity. Stored energy in the form of oil has allowed us to overlook that fact, but that game is coming to its natural end too.

We all need to be willing to admit we were wrong, and the game of "infinite growth" is fundamentally flawed. Only when we do can we begin to actually solve the problem, which isnt as difficult as people might think it is.

reply to post by David9176


Let me just cut to the chase. We have been led to believe that our freedoms are guaranteed by the US Constititution and The Bill Of Rights.

So, when we have a problem with the way things are being done (by our elected officials), we used to have something known as the right to petition, i.e. "and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" in the 1st amendment. That was a long time ago. Now they (public elected officials) can give you the finger all day long.

Some of us thought that the gov. had to listen, wasn't that in this "Bill of Rights, 1st amendment"? Maybe, until the Supreme Court shot it down, in "guess what administration???" ca 1984.

Some litigants have contended that the right to petition the government includes a requirement that the government listen to or respond to members of the public. This view was rejected by the United States Supreme Court in 1984:
"Nothing in the First Amendment or in this Court's case law interpreting it suggests that the rights to speak, associate, and petition require government policymakers to listen or respond to communications of members of the public on public issues.

Link Wikipedia

Isn't that special?

I believe in fact, that 40 years ago, when we were mostly very young or otherwise asleep, that our Constitution was shredded by (fill in the blanks organization). Some very powerful, quiet, behind the scenes actors.

Let me ask you a question. What happens when us middle class is basically wiped out? Then who are they gonna have work for them and whose money are they gonna take then?

let them wipe us out then when all the middle class finally is desperate enough to survive, maybe then they'll get some cajones and stand up united and take back what's rightfully ours.

Our lives, Freedom and Dignity.

Peace and God bless to my fellow brothers and sisters.

Tired old news.
They will continue to give every advantage to the top 2 percent, meanwhile rip apart anything designed to empower the middle class.

Make corporations people so they can spend unlimited amounts of cash on politicians..allow for anon donations, rip apart unions (the one thing that speaks for the middle class worker that has a budget to counter some of the corporate mega oil money).

The kicker is, they also use their personally purchased media to make at least 35% of the public totally on board with shooting themselves in the foot. Faux knows that people are not just easily brainwashed into simplicity, but eagerly wanting to be programmed so they don't have to think. Humans have issues with seeing "the big picture".

Conservatives have become corporate shills. Libertarians are now the last holdout of what once was a fairly respectable movement into fiscal responsibility..the neo-cons are now fully at war with the nations poor...and by poor, that qualifies anyone not simply being rich...

Good example:
No to removing the bush tax cuts. Why? 250k is not rich, 250k is damn near poverty levels..do not tax them
turn around
Remove unions...some teachers are making almost 80k a year (when you include benefits). They are riding the gravy train and need to have their pay pinched and their voice removed.

so...what we learned then is that 250k+ in profit alone (not including benefits they get) = poor people that need protecting
whereas 80k total (benefits can take up to half that number) = rich elitists whom need to be crushed and hammered...

This is the clear message over and over again as of late. I now look at a person sometimes in pity, sometimes in disgust when they are toting the neo-con line. Most of the time, they have no clue what is going on (unless Hannity said something...which he will never say something that might reflect poorly on the koch brothers or other sabotaurs of america).

OPs, I recommend you watch the maddow show on msnbc...she has been pointing this out for awhile now..every single move, she gives the paper trail (direct connections, not some spin 7 degrees of kevin bacon nonsense faux does).
not all media is corrupted...just the corrupt ones want you to think that so you dismiss them all and go watch the simpsons or whatnot.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Absolutely!

Just because love accepts violence as it is, does not mean we don't deal with it. Love just makes it possible to get to the root of the problem. Unlike now, where we use violence to deal with violence. That will NEVER solve the problem because it doesn't get to the root!

And that my friend, as I'm sure you know, is where the idea of evil comes in. Some will justify the use of violence to combat "evil", with out even questioning what evil actually is. Or at least not questioning past what their religion teaches.

The three major religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) all believe that "man" is inherently born with sin because of the original sin of Adam and Eve.

The alternative idea, which I personally believe to be true, is that evil is LEARNED from an individual's environment. What I like about this idea is that it means that humans can not only solve the problem of violence, but ALL negative human behavior. It puts the responsibility on US, instead of relying on God to solve it. Humans can create an environment that meets the individual's basic human needs, like food, shelter, education, energy, transportation, social interaction just to name a few.

To me, this would truly make God proud. To use the BRAIN we inherited, as well as the love we are blessed with.

Jeez...I just got paid 4 million for doing the voice of a dog. Now I have 45 minutes to kill, and I'm bored. Guess I'll go pick up a FB at the local university. It all happened for me, once I determined to quit wasting energy on hate and bickering! Gotta take this one, it's Ari.

-Vincent Chase

reply to post by Reflection


You are correct in stating that the choice is between love and fear. These are the root emotions that underlie every choice we make. And you are correct in stating that we need to love ourselves more, completely, and better than ever before in our human history. People have been blinded to real self love, seeing it as hedonistic pleasure, avoidance of pain, irresponsibility, and egoistic ethnocentricities.

We who are awake and understand real self love must now be the light energy needed to infect all others in every way, shape, and form. If we do this, we as a race of people have a chance to overcome the globalists greed and lust for power. We must stay as healthy as possible in body, mind, and spirit. There are energies of light that are present to aid us in this great galactic moment of ascension; the coming together of all peoples as one and powered by true love.

wall street is laughing at every american every single day since the bail out,they still get paid and get thier bonuses and then again think to themselves F**K it, i suppose if they fail again then you can always bail them out again,what more can the average american loose,i suppose when you realy are in the S*** you can always send yourselfs to be slaugtered in sum war you no nothing about and i suppose wall street again will profit out of that.

OK David9176, you pushed my rant button

To start with, I do not believe in political parties or the labels of Conservative or Liberal. Frankly, they functionally do not exists. Some may claim affiliation but it means little with regards to our current situation.

Class warfare gets a little closer but sound bites rarely tell the whole tale truthfully. Socialism, Capitalism, S***headism, they mean nothing to me. I adhere to none of them and believe none truly exist in the real world. These are just argument starters.

In my, some may say obtuse, opinion, the discussion is far more fundamental and far more human than most feel comfortable thinking about. Our laws, our economy, our morals are not in stone. We just happen to agree upon them long term for our benefit. This agreement may take on different appearances but in the end it almost always works out the same.

You have some which get the short end of the stick. Call them the poor, the disenfranchised, the unambitious, whatever. You have those who disagree with the agreement or do not want to play by the rules. Call them criminals, terrorists, freedom fighters, etc. You have some who are really able to game the agreement. Call them wealthy, the survival of the fittest (their term no doubt), the sociopaths, etc. Most just fall somewhere into a middle ground of grumbling contentment.

Regardless, there is only so much wealth and good stuff to go around. Once the good stuff starts running short for whatever reason, the balance of the agreement becomes unstable. I believe that is what we are starting to see right now. We have some who feel their rightful share of good stuff should really be greater and it has to come from somewhere.

The problem occurs when one party abandons the tenants of the agreement, they still believe everyone else needs to maintain their part. When the others don't, you get what we are seeing in the Middle East right now and to a lesser extent in the US.

OK. Rant over. But I really think it comes down to folks arguing over their share of the pie. No socio-babble or politico-babble covers that up.

reply to post by David9176


Interesting thread dude, by the way aren't you that dude with the kid, who about year ago was arguing about these sort of things on this very site. Anyways if so, glad to see your more mellowed out, because like you said. Sometimes you just got to turn of the tube, and step away from it all for a long time and get your perspectives in check, before you go crazy, and make a big thing on much ado about nothing. Or at least the "nothing" that wouldn't be in your interest to go crazy about, if people are going to go crazy, at least go crazy about something the is worth going crazy about. Anyways just passing through, peace out, and carry on.

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by volitionawareness

 

So, you're an optimist through and through, I get it.

No really, it's never so bad that we should just give up. Where there's a will there's a way and when working people in this country get tired of being enslaved by the wealthy, they'll develop the will to make the necessary changes. I assure you, the ultra wealthy in America are in for a rude awakening, so don't give up just yet.

Now that is American Spirit...this is what I was talking about!!!

I really believe that no individual should be allowed to control vast amounts of wealth until they have proven their ability to perceive and handle the social responsibilities that go along with that control.

Exactly! Without the knowledge, WISDOM and Understanding of the true power that comes with vast amounts of wealth...common man is nothing more than a greedy animal. Therefore, no one man or group of men without proper "preparation" of heart and soul should be in charge of such things.

There was a reason that the highest tax rate used to be 90%. It was to insure that the greedy didn't ignore the social responsibilities that go along with controlling that much of the nation's wealth. Even during the Carter years, it was around 70% but today it's around 36% and the wealthy are continuously crying about how they are being overtaxed.

What we are witnessing is the apex of absolute greed and I'm sure it will soon come crashing down upon itself. Personally, this movie has been a long time in the coming and I can't wait to see it play out.

Yep...fortunately or unfortunately as you say we are witness to absolute greed...all must learn it /about it, one way or another...and like you, am very interested to see how it plays out this time. This "game" has been played many times before us, and until the proper lesson is realized...it will be played out again, again, and again. We can hope that this time will finally sink in.


~as above, so below~

Originally posted by Revealation
Let me ask you a question. What happens when us middle class is basically wiped out? Then who are they gonna have work for them and whose money are they gonna take then?

.

The growing middle class in India and China. Thats whose money they are going to take then.

They arent idiots, we are. They very carefully made sure their new markets were in place before bending us completely over. They took decades to set this up. And we let them. Hell, we helped them, because we were stupid enough to buy the idea that sending jobs overseas and opening the borders so they could abandon America was a good idea.

They perceive that they do not need us anymore. And they arent entirely wrong. They have our military at their disposal, they have complete control over the media, which gives them virtually complete control of our democracy, and they have us in a position where we need them more than they need us. They are going to go after Social Security at some point too. They are going to make us need their crappy low paying jobs, and be grateful to have them.

Now they can complete the task of turning the US into merely another labor pool in a geographic region. Our status as favorites is over. Its done. Like a tube of toothpaste they are squeezing the last drops of wealth out of our nation on the way out the door. They started with the lower classes, and middle class did nothing, and they have been rolling through the middle class while the upper middle class does nothing.

And the upper middle class, those who are in the private sector cheering for the dissolution of unions because they are upper level management? you arent getting out of this intact. You are next.

reply to post by David9176


I think these people speak for themselves.

reply to post by David9176


Good post!

I agree that people should stand by each other at a time of turmoil. If you don't help your fellow human being when they needed than why should they help you when you need it? Up in Wall St. they know the game, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

People need to stand up to the government and their corporate owners. Why should corporations have more say than the citizens? The government bailed out their crooked bankster friends and allowed them to gamble at your expense. They get to have major corporate tax cuts with the hopes of hiring more people and providing more jobs, but we all know most of the money goes in their pockets and bonuses.

The sad thing is that many people will believe that we are okay because they say so on TV. According to Gerald Celente the worst is not over yet, the worst is coming soon. The global food prices are going up, gas is going up, our electricity is going up, consumer prices are going up, our way of life is going down, our infrastructure is crumbling, Canada's health-care is at least ok, but Americans can't afford health-care, and the government isn't stopping any spending.

The FED is printing off money like a news paper company with the hopes of inflating the economy. The only good news is that soon American's can't afford their television bills so we can break that damn spell the media has on them. They can finally wake the hell up and hold their leaders feet to the fire.