Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

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posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 



According to latitude and time of year


Again you're revealing your ignorance or are purposefully misleading the facts by leaving out important information.

Some of the planes that leave chemtrails in the troposphere are conducting tests using new kinds of smart chaff.

Some of the planes that leave chemtrails in the troposphere are conducting tests for shortwave climate engineering. Cloud modification for increasing cloud reflectivity by adding extra aerosol pollutants.

They are both related to SAG because the data collected in those field tests are used in making climate models.



www.windows2universe.org...

The top of the stratosphere occurs at 50 km (31 miles) altitude. The boundary between the stratosphere and the mesosphere above is called the stratopause. The altitude of the bottom of the stratosphere varies with latitude and with the seasons, occurring between about 8 and 16 km (5 and 10 miles, or 26,000 to 53,000 feet). The bottom of the stratosphere is around 16 km (10 miles or 53,000 feet) above Earth's surface near the equator, around 10 km (6 miles) at mid-latitudes, and around 8 km (5 miles) near the poles. It is slightly lower in winter at mid- and high-latitudes, and slightly higher in the summer. The boundary between the stratosphere and the troposphere below is called the tropopause.


Aerosols injected into the Troposphere and Tropopause can be lifted by air currents into the Stratosphere.
Some of the Nanotech aerosols are being designed for that purpose. We've covered this before.


edit on 20-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit




posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 



Some of the planes that leave chemtrails in the troposphere are conducting tests using new kinds of smart chaff.


so you are back to saying that chemtails are chaff?


Some of the planes that leave chemtrails in the troposphere are conducting tests for shortwave climate engineering.


You have some evidence to support this assertion?

Because if it is based on your misrepresentation of www2.novim.org... that you posted here - www.abovetopsecret.com... - then you are jsut out and out lying.

that does not involve aircraft at all -


In a one-week study, the authors of this report conducted a technical review and evaluation of proposed climate engineering concepts that might serve as a rapid palliative response to such climate emergency scenarios.


so no aircraft, not even any engineering - jsut a study of porposals - not even a study of tests or experiments - just PROPOSALS.


Cloud modification for increasing cloud reflectivity by adding extra aerosol pollutants.


so you can identify these planes then? And show evidence of tests? Something you've been spectacularly unable to do to date?

And these planes explain all the "chemtrails" over the last 15 years, worldwide, turning blue sky into cloud?

Are these the space shuttles, or the firefighting aircraft?


Aerosols injected into the Troposphere and Tropopause can be lifted by air currents into the Stratosphere.


Unlikely - since there are no air currents between the troposhere and the stratosphere.


The stratoshere being warmer than the troposphere means there is no mechanism for it to happen - there is no hot air rising/cool air falling because the hot air is already higher up and the cool air is already lower down!!

For someone who says he's never wrong you're pretty ignorant about what is right!


Some of the Nanotech aerosols are being designed for that purpose. We've covered this before.


really?

when was that then?

I'm sure you think you've covered it before somehow, and on your performance I'm equally sure you are wrong, but I'd like to see what it is you think you have in detail.

edit on 20-4-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: crappy spelling and to point out another Matty screw-up



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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You forgot to mention the airshow planes, that are involved in chemtrail to him



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Don't forget the mighty chem spraying fire fighting tanker. Oh can't forget the space shuttle.



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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Mea culpa - I have early onset alzheimers when it comes to remembering what stupidity Matty thinks are chemtrials.

But jsut to refresh our memories:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


EXAMPLES of chemtrails

1 ) Space Shuttle exhaust

2 ) Chemical dumping for extinguishing fires

3 ) Fuel dumping for emergency and other required scenarios

4 ) ICBM exhaust other military rockets

5 ) Cloud seeding by plane and other cloud seeding methods (rockets)

6 ) Other methods used for aerosol Geo engineering (ex. balloons)

7 ) Jet exhaust with anomalous persistent contrails



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Only a complete moron would say that this isn't a chemtrail





edit on 20-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add pic



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


And yet it isn't in the stratosphere, isn't trying to alter the climate, isn't coming from an engine, isn't trying to magnify HAARP, isn't trying to poison us, isn't trying to increase the amount of barium or aluminium in the soil, isn't blocking out the sun, isn't operated by the military.

so what is it that a chemtrail is again??



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Essan
 



According to latitude and time of year


Again you're revealing your ignorance or are purposefully misleading the facts by leaving out important information.




What important information? Are you denying that the height of the tropopause varies according to latitude and time of year? What other important information, relevant to this discussion, pertains to the height of the tropopause?

And wha has your £jjust made it up" smart chaff got to do with any of this?


Aerosols injected into the Troposphere and Tropopause can be lifted by air currents into the stratosphere.


What air currents? You making up atmospheric science as you go along?


The tropopause minimum acts as a barrier between the troposphere and stratosphere because mixing and heat transport by convection can only occur when temperature decreases with height. The troposphere - with convection allowed - is turbulent and well mixed. The stratosphere with its temperature increase with height is stable, stratified into layers and relatively poorly mixed.


www.atoptics.co.uk...

There is normaly no mixing across the tropopause - that's what the tropopause means! The only exception is when very large tropical thunderstorms break through the tropopause.

Edit: or are you now arguing that contrails are 'proof' that aerosols are being sprayed into the troposphere at mid latitudes in order for them to be lifted into the stratosphere by tropical thunderstorms thousands of miles away? In which case why not spray them in the tropics? Or better still, in the stratosphere in the first place (ah, but they can't do that because then you've no alternative explantion for contrails .....
)
edit on 21-4-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:22 AM
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Here's another kind of cloud modification chemtrail

WMO STATEMENT ON THE STATUS OF WEATHER MODIFICATION

Chemical and chaff tracer studies help to identify airflow in and out of clouds and the source of ice or hygroscopic nucleation as the seeding agent. With some of these new facilities, a better climatology of clouds and precipitation can be prepared to test seeding hypotheses prior to the commencement of weather modification projects


FOG DISPERSAL
Different techniques are being used to disperse warm (i.e. at temperatures greater than 0°C) and cold fogs. The relative occurrence of warm and cold fogs is geographically and seasonally dependent. The thermal technique, which employs intense heat sources (such as jet engines) to warm the air directly and evaporate the fog, has been shown to be effective for short periods for dispersal of some types of warm fogs. These systems are expensive to install and to use.

Another technique that has been used is to promote entrainment of dry air into the fog by the use of hovering helicopters or ground-based engines. These techniques are also expensive for routine use.

To clear warm fogs, seeding with hygroscopic materials has also been attempted. An increase in visibility is sometimes observed in such experiments, but the manner and location of the seeding and the size distribution of seeding material are critical and difficult to specify. In practice, the technique is seldom as effective as models suggest. Only hygroscopic agents should be used that pose no environmental and health problems.

Cold (supercooled) fog can be dissipated by growth and sedimentation of ice crystals. This may be induced with high reliability by seeding the fog with artificial ice nuclei from ground-based or airborne systems. This technique is in operational use at several airports and highways where there is a relatively high incidence of supercooled fog. Suitable techniques are dependent upon wind, temperature and other factors. Dry ice has commonly been used in airborne systems.

Other systems employ rapid expansion of compressed gas to cool the air enough to form ice crystals. For example, at a few airports and highway locations, liquid nitrogen or carbon dioxide is being used in ground-based systems. A new technique, which has been demonstrated in limited trials, makes use of dry ice blasting to create ice crystals and promote rapid mixing within the fog. Because the effects of this type of seeding are easily measured and the results are highly predictable, randomized statistical verification generally has been considered unnecessary


In recent years, the seeding of warm and cold convective clouds with hygroscopic chemicals to augment rainfall by enhancing warm rain processes (condensation/collision-coalescence/break-up mechanisms) has received renewed attention through model simulations and field experiments.

Two methods of enhancing the warm rain process have been investigated: first, seeding with small particles (artificial CCN with mean sizes about 0.5 to 1.0 micrometres in diameter) is used to accelerate precipitation initiation by stimulating the condensation-coalescence process by favourably modifying the initial droplet spectrum at cloud base; and second, seeding with larger hygroscopic particles (artificial precipitation embryos about 30 micrometres in diameter) to accelerate precipitation development by stimulating the collision-coalescence processes.

A recent experiment utilizing the latter technique indicated statistical evidence of radar estimated precipitation increases. However, the increases were not as contemplated in the conceptual model but seem to occur at later times (one to four hours after seeding), the cause of this effect is not known.


Hygroscopic salts being sprayed for cloud seeding

www.just-clouds.com...


Hygroscopic Cloud Seeding
The term “hygroscopic seeding” has been associated with warm cloud seeding. The objective is to enhance rainfall by promoting the coalescence process using hygroscopic salt nuclei generated by pyrotechnic flares or a fine spray of a highly concentrated salt solution. In addition, Cooper et al. (1997) illustrated that hygroscopic seeding might have a beneficial effect on precipitation development through either of two distinct mechanisms:
introduction of embryos on which raindrops form; or
broadening of the initial droplet size distribution resulting in acceleration of all stages of the coalescence process.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:49 AM
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Let's see you try to debunk this

Tracer Applications in the California Regional Air Quality Study

I live only 15 minutes away from where this tracer release took place.


Perfluorocarbon tracer release: Conduct a continuous, several-hour release at an elevated point (~100 m) west of the Carquinez Strait (Richmond-Rodeo locale). Consider sequential releases of multiple tracers as an option.

Don't make me say I told you so


Fluorescent aerosol and perfluorocarbon release: Deploy a conventional aerosol generator to release a well-characterized dispersion of dye aerosol in precise proportion to a perfluorocarbon tracer. Although a wide spectrum of aerosol particles is acceptable, particle sizes should be maintained at sizes less than a few microns to minimize gravitational effects. Accurate knowledge of the initial size distribution, and its ratio to the perfluorocarbon release, are essential. The tracer-release location should be situated at a point where an extended downwind run over desired terrain features is expected.

Chaff tracers


3.6 Radar Reflectors Radar reflectors, especially chaff, have the distinct advantage of providing remotely sensed estimates of air motions or even quantitative measures of threedimensional wind fields, if two synchronized Doppler radars are employed. Vector plots of wind fields observed over the Santa Barbara coast during the SCCCAMP campaign


Read it and weep bunktoids GAME OVER


A Technique to Measure Entrainment in Cloud by Dual-Polarization Radar and Chaff
edit on 21-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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So instead of answering me, you just post up more stuff which you clearly do not understand at all


Somewhat ironic though that you're now claiming that chemtrails are just small scale experiments carried out by atmospheric scientists seeking better understanding of atmospheric processes and the weather (the same people whom you think are lying when they say 'chemtrails' are just normal aircraft contrails), and nothing to do with either contrails or stratospheric geoengineering. Though I'm guessing you've given up entirely on the later now
edit on 21-4-2011 by Essan because: typo



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


I would think that you might have given up pretending to be so clueless by now. Why don't you stop being so ignorant? Obviously you either didn't read the papers I posted or you don't understand what you're reading.

I have said many many many times that there are more than one type of chemtrail and that they are being used for different purposes. Get a clue, it seems everybody else has but you.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Being rude will get you nowhere, nor will your re-definition of chemtrails as the deployment into the atmosphere by either aircraft, rockets or other methods of any substance under any circumstance for any reason. Something everyone else knows happens but is not what they mean by chemtrails.

I'm surprised you've not added industrial pollution to your list, But maybe that's next? Perhaps followed by cigarettes and carbon emissions from human breath?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


This study is POSITIVE PROOF and you can not deny it.

www.arb.ca.gov...

You're the one behaving rudely,



, you just post up more stuff which you clearly do not understand at all



I'm surprised you've not added industrial pollution to your list, But maybe that's next? Perhaps followed by cigarettes and carbon emissions from human breath?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Essan
 


This study is POSITIVE PROOF and you can not deny it.



Yes, proof positive that scientists have conducted studies into air quality over California


Pray tell what that has to do either with what other people call chemtrails, or stratospheric engineering?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Now I know you didn't read the report. You just read the title, saw the word air quality and assumed the rest.

The report was not on air quality,.if you had actually read the report you would know that.

The report was on different kinds of tracers. They mimicked pollution aerosols and sprayed them to examine their characteristics .

The air quality part was when they sprayed specially chosen types of pollution aerosols to study them.

Specifically the report was about using tracers like chaff and other types of chemical tracers to study air currents in wet and dry locations. Also the costs and their effectiveness.



1. Introduction`
1.1 Report Objective
The objective of this report is to examine potential tracer applications for the
forthcoming California Regional PM10/PM2.5 Air-Quality Study (CRPAQS), with
specific attention to the following elements:
• potential uses of tracer studies in the context of the comprehensive CRPAQS; and
• expected scientific returns of such studies, as well as their costeffectiveness and probabilities of success.


Here's where they talk about mimicking pollution

Although inert gaseous tracers such as SF6 and perhalogenated organics represent a major class of tracers anticipated for application in the CRPAQS, a variety of other tracer types, such as fluorescent compounds, rare-earth elements, radar reflectors, and natural "tracers of opportunity" are of interest as well, either as single tracers or as companion components to investigations where perhalocarbons are employed. Many of these additional tracers are aerosols, thus providing the possible advantage of mimicking, at least approximately, the depositional behavior of their pollution counterparts. This section summarizes briefly the components of this potential "tracer arsenal," to provide an information backdrop for the subsequent discussion

Here they talk about using gases as tracers

Several additional nonreactive gases are available for intentional release, which can be used as conservative tracers Dietz (1986). Including species such as sulfur hexafluoride and deuterated methane, these compounds are generally less attractive than perfluorocarbons

Here they describe where they used the tracers

Perfluorocarbon tracer release: Conduct a continuous, several-hour release at an elevated point (~100 m) west of the Carquinez Strait (Richmond-Rodeo locale). Consider sequential releases of multiple tracers as an option.


Perfluorocarbon tracer release: Perform simultaneous short-term evening releases of two perfluorocarbon tracers at strategically located, elevated points (~200 m) in the expected circulation patterns of the Fresno and Bakersfield eddies, respectively


Perfluorocarbon tracer release:
Perform sequential, continuous (~1 hour) releases of multiple perfluorocarbon tracers at a selected location in the base inflow region of the slope-wind circulation.

How they release the tracers

Fluorescent aerosol and perfluorocarbon release: Deploy a conventional aerosol generator to release a well-characterized dispersion of dye aerosol in precise proportion to a perfluorocarbon tracer. Although a wide spectrum of aerosol particles is acceptable, particle sizes should be maintained at sizes less than a few microns to minimize gravitational effects

Some of the tracers used

Table 3.1: Some Perfluorocarbon Tracers "Standard" Perfluorocarbon Tracers Perfluoromethylcyclohexane (PMCH) Ortho- and meta-perfluorodimethylcyclohexane (o, mPDCH) Perfluoromethylcyclopentane (PMCP) Perfluorotrimethylcyclohexane (PTCH) Potential Additional Perfluorocarbon Tracers Perfluoroethylcyclohexane (PECH) Normal perfluoropropylcyclohexane (nPPCH) Iso perfluoropropylcyclohexane (iPPCH) Ortho-, meta-, and para-perfluormethylethylcyclohexanes (o, m, pPMECH) Perfluorodimethylcyclobutane (PDCB) Perfluorotrimethylcyclohexane (PTCH)

Other types of tracers

3.3 Fluorescent Particles Fluorescent dye particles have been applied over the past few decades for a number of atmospheric studies, including measurements of plume diffusion (Draxler, 1984), dry deposition (Sehmel, 1984), precipitation scavenging (Englemann, 1965), and particle resuspension (Sehmel, 1984). Detection of the tracer, which may take place either in situ or on a collected sample, occurs by observing fluorescent radiation stimulated by electromagnetic or sub-atomic particle irradiation of the tracer

Rare Earths (metals) as tracers

Although potentially useful for a variety of tracer applications, rare earths have been applied most frequently for measurement of in-cloud scavenging rates and processes, where the tracer is dispersed in the storm inflow or cloud regions, with subsequent recovery and measurement of tracer in collected precipitation samples

Chaff tracers

Radar reflectors, especially chaff, have the distinct advantage of providing remotely sensed estimates of air motions or even quantitative measures of threedimensional wind fields, if two synchronized Doppler radars are employed. Vector plots of wind fields observed over the Santa Barbara coast during the SCCCAMP campaign,


In the other report I supplied they also use tracers for cloud seeding techniques. They apply aerosol tracers before using the dry ice or silver iodide to help decide where to seed and to help predict the winds effects after seeding. The tracers used for cloud seeding are usually hygroscopic salts.

edit on 21-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


It's a laugh you accusing people of not reading reports when you can't even read a simple post without getting it wrong.

Essen didn't say the report was about air quality - he said it was evidence that people study air quality.

Why can't you even get that right??

And what are the tracers being studied for??




As noted above, the aim of this report is to provide basic information on tracer technology, as well as feasibility of the associated applications, so that the CRPAQS design team can evaluate options, establish priorities, and possibly select one or more applications for further consideration.


That's right - so that people can figure out which are the best ones to use when studying air quality.....so it is perfect evidence that people are studying air quality!

And, as Essan said - not one mention f contrails, no programmes to alter the weather or climate, no attempts to increase aluminium in the soil to benefit Monsanto or any other wacky non-nonsensical motives are revealed by it.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Aloysius are you an alcoholic or are you from Egypt?

Because it's quite obvious that you live in denial.





That's right - so that people can figure out which are the best ones to use when studying air quality.....so it is perfect evidence that people are studying air quality!


That's right people are spraying crap from air planes all over the place. It's called chemtrails.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

The report was not on air quality,.if you had actually read the report you would know that.


No. It was an evaluation of different tracers that might be used in the conduct of a forthcoming air quality study.

So that's what chemtrails are? Well, now we know. I guess we can move on, eh?



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Look at the date of that study. October 1998

Again it is obvious that you didn't read it

GOOGLE : Atmospheric tracers

National Centre for Atmospheric Science



Tracers are gases or powdered materials injected into the atmosphere. This is either deliberate, for diagnostic purposes, or accidental, where it represents presence of pollutants. The UM can advect up to 29 passive tracers: the method is outlined in the Unified Model User Guide (for version 5.5) in section 4.6 "Atmospheric Tracers".

edit on 22-4-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link





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