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Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by lemmehowdt
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


time out - not trying to argue semantics - no proof that chemicals are in the water vapor - you need to tell me an alternative for how they got into the snow melt, if not from the plane. I was trying to define words - if you wish to change the words, fine - the red queen in alice in wonderland stated very clearly that words meant exactly what she thought they meant.


Originally posted by lemmehowdt
reply to post by firepilot
 


how much dust is in a snow sample that has just fallen? I'm confused - not critical - can you take the time to explain to me where your thinking here is.

check this link : hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

aluminum in earth's crust is not evil - it is inert. That is precisely why it is not good in the body - i posted about this on another thread. I did not personally collect the samples - i set forth an inquiry about them to the person that did collect them, to find out the answer to the where question. The top of Shasta was a colloquium , i doubt that they were taken at the very tip. But again - that is semantics - what is going on is the question that we would both like to answer.


Originally posted by lemmehowdt
reply to post by ZombieJesus
 

i was being sarcastic - the photo itself proves nothing. i really would like to see where this conversation takes us to - but the geo-engineering information seems to me to be the current best working theory. In the posts where i am talking science, i am relying on my 50+ year old brain and not running to document everything i say. I am beginning to question physics - which is supposed to be the hardest science on the hard/soft scale. Namaste
These were the posts in this thread. For more comments and information from Dr Lenny Thyme please visit these other threads.

ATS Live Radio Interview on chemtrails - fast forward to 1:01:00
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Discussion Thread with Dr Lenny Thyme currently closed for comment for unknown reasons
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 21-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add links




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew


Nothing you have posted proves anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. You have no idea (unless you work for the CIA) what the CIA are doing or who they contract or what they contract for.

You have no idea ( unless you work for Evergreen Air ) what private contracts they have, what private projects they are under taking or anything else they do that they choose not to openly disclose.

You keep claiming how your evidence is proper, well that is a matter of opinion and a biased one at that. You haven't put your "proper" evidence in a proper place for it to be examined properly by the proper people.

"Their are three types of dis info people....people who are uninformed and/or unintelligent, people with personal interest invested and people who work for companies and Governments involved."
MathiasAndrew

There is no blatant dis information from chemtrailers. We are all just trying to hypothesize, speculate, investigate, share info, learn the truth and many other things with good intentions to inform and protect our selves from people that disregard the rights of others and do not acquire proper informed consent when conducting experiments at our expense.

Please show me who you think is a chemtrailer profiteer on ATS or in this thread.
edit on 21-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text


Interesting, you chemmies claim Evergreen is a chemtrail company, but now you say that we have no idea what contracts they have. If that is the truth, then how do you chemmies know that they do? How do you know then that they are, when you say that we cant know they arent.

You dont, you just read it on a chemtrail website and post it as gospel. If you havent noticed, Evergreen has 15 aircraft. Yes, just 15. 747s are not secret stealth aircraft, and if any were outfiited with your secret chemgear, people would notice. Or even if they were your magical chemplanes that fly without engines and have specially outfiited aerosol tanks like you posted, that would be ever more noticed.

As for profiteers from chemtrails, thats easy. Len Horowitz and Will Thomas started the hoax, and others like Don Croft joined in

edit on 21-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Well I respect Len Horowitz, I don't consider him to be a profiteer. Just like I don't consider many public speakers and inspirational people to be profiteers. Everyone needs to make a living. I commend those who do it in search of truth and informing the uninformed. What do you profit from? What is your line of work ?



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Nice OP! I've been tossing around the idea of a post like this for some time now. I posted something about a photo on CNN's site showing a dozen or so "persistent contrails" over the U.S. Capitol Building. My question in the OP was "why would the CNN.com staffer pick this particular stock photo of the Capitol?" but nearly every response was about how the "contrails" were right where they were supposed to be or that they had to have come from commercial flights. I said nothing about chemtrails existing or knowing what they were, and yet the most passionate replies came from members who are opposed to any discussion whatsoever of the "chemtrail" phenomenon. Why so closed-minded? I have yet to see a good, simple, clear cut explanation as to why some planes leave persistent contrails some of the time, but not all planes all of the time. It would seem that if this topic were so preposterous that it would be easily debunked using readily available data and studies. Instead, we get the vague "atmospheric conditions" with no suggestion as to which set of conditions is needed to produce a persistent contrail. We chemtrailers don't even claim to know exactly what's up, we just think it sucks that you can be outside enjoying a nice, sunny, cloudless blue sky and within a matter of hours its LITERALLY COATED in hazy, thick smog wafting out to cover the sky.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by RicoMarston
 


LOL..I just saw your post 2 days ago when I was under a posting ban. That is a really strange choice of pictures to use. Good job in pointing that picture out. Seems like a real propaganda picture if there ever was one.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

edit on 22-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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I am sorry op. I am giving up on the chemtrail conspiracy for a while. This is a never ending circle of sh(crap). We just keep beating the dead horse. It is nothing but a pile of mush by now.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


Well I understand the pile of mush and beating a dead horse comment. I don't agree with the pile of crap. It is hard to accept if you haven't seen it in person with your own eyes. It really depends on where you live. If you actually saw the planes in action you might understand better. I also agree that there is a lot of dis information coming from the chemtrailers side. I don't like to see or read propaganda from either side of this controversy. I have reformed a few of my opinions and views about some of the more controversial and speculative aspects involving chemtrails. But I still stand by the opinion that chemtrails are real. For what purpose I don't really know.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 





I don't agree with the pile of crap.


A star for you. That made me laugh a little.

I live in Illinois. I have not personally seen this kind of operation in action. I guess that I just need the right kind of evidence. I know that there are reports and such, but I would like to have solid evidence of this taking place. I guess the only way that would happen is if the pilot or crew that was performing such tasks took the video themselves.

Sorry for the late reply. I was lost in the sea of threads.

edit on 22-3-2011 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 



If you actually saw the planes in action you might understand better.


Meh.

You keep saying things like this, but you offer no real evidence, no real logic and no real consensus about anything that is claimed. It is a potpourri of "theories" coming from a very large and disparate group of (mainly) nuts on the fringe, who post online, and poison the well that you drink from, as you read it and are unduly influenced.

If you aren't engaging in actively promoting the hoax, and are indeed merely unable to distinguish fact from fantasy. (It is difficult to assess for certain).

So, again.....YOUR challenge is to find that proof, that evidence that is supremely convincing....so far, based on that last comment, are we to assume that the only basis for this "chem"-trail belief is from your personal lack of credulity, when viewing contrails....and the subsequent trip down the Rabbit Hole of Hoax Territory, known as the "chemtrail world"...et al....??



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by firepilot
 


Well I respect Len Horowitz, I don't consider him to be a profiteer. Just like I don't consider many public speakers and inspirational people to be profiteers. Everyone needs to make a living. I commend those who do it in search of truth and informing the uninformed. What do you profit from? What is your line of work ?


Peddling junk science that plays on peoples fears, and then cashing in on those fears to profit from them, to me is immoral. Its not different than the proverbial snake oil salesman, except they are a lot slicker, having websites and using psuedoscientific nonsense, to take advantage of a lack of science in others.

Sure, I could start my own internet business too, selling remedies for chemtrails and copper tubes to the orgone crowd. My personal morals however, prevent me from doing so. Looks like it would be easy cash though.

Len Horowitz and Will Thomas helped start this hoax, and they both immediately had things for sale. At the time it was books, which of course they each others books glowing reviews. I think Will Thomas never really ventured past though, but Len has made an entire cottage industry out of this nonsense.

edit on 22-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by RicoMarston
 


LOL..I just saw your post 2 days ago when I was under a posting ban. That is a really strange choice of pictures to use. Good job in pointing that picture out. Seems like a real propaganda picture if there ever was one.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

edit on 22-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link


That photo has been on ATS before, but how exactly is it propaganda?

I agree that contrails that create overcast are an unfortunate consequence of air travel, but it's simply one of the effects of air travel -- it's not like airlines are flying for the sole reason of creating overcast skies.

An unfortunate consequence of automobiles is air pollution, but I don't feel that Ford, Honda, and GM are intentionally selling cars for the sole purpose of creating air pollution.

Contrails may be causing cloudy days, but they are simply a normal (if unfortunate) by-product of some high-altitude flight.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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and the northeast corridor is the most crowded airspace in the world. thousands of flights, go up and down the east coast a day.
edit on 22-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 



If you actually saw the planes in action you might understand better.


Meh.

You keep saying things like this, but you offer no real evidence, no real logic and no real consensus about anything that is claimed. It is a potpourri of "theories" coming from a very large and disparate group of (mainly) nuts on the fringe, who post online, and poison the well that you drink from, as you read it and are unduly influenced.

If you aren't engaging in actively promoting the hoax, and are indeed merely unable to distinguish fact from fantasy. (It is difficult to assess for certain).

So, again.....YOUR challenge is to find that proof, that evidence that is supremely convincing....so far, based on that last comment, are we to assume that the only basis for this "chem"-trail belief is from your personal lack of credulity, when viewing contrails....and the subsequent trip down the Rabbit Hole of Hoax Territory, known as the "chemtrail world"...et al....??


I disagree with your statement. Just because you refuse to accept any of the evidence, that does not make it unreal. Just because you live in denial does not make the evidence disappear. Just because you are illogical does not mean I offered no logic. Just because you are unreasonable, does not mean that my reasons aren't valid.

Your entire statement is based on your personal biased opinion. I refute all your claims that you insist are facts. You sir are not able to back up your claims to half the degree that I have already backed up mine. You are just full of hot air, false pride and a pompous attitude.

All your "facts" have been debunked and derailed. Your attempts to dis me and dis inform people are deranged and diluted.. I do not exactly know why it is that you do what you do. But I do know one thing. I am on a mission to prove the existence of chemtrails to as many people as I possibly can.

Why ? Because I know for a fact that they are real. I have seen the proof with my own eyes. If you want to come to California and look for yourself. Please by all means be my guest. Come look at the planes in action. Come watch them fly in ridiculous flight patterns criss crossing the sky. Stopping before reaching a mountain range and then turning back around. They are not up there training. They are not up there flying to any direct destination. They are up there for the purpose of spreading what ever it is they are spreading by whatever means they are using.
.
I would be very happy if I was wrong. But the more I look, the more I learn, the more my suspicions are confirmed. If I were to convince the entire City I live in, the entire County, even the entire State. Some how I feel you would still be one of the last people standing on the other side of that line between chemtrails and contrails..

THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by firepilot
 


Well I respect Len Horowitz, I don't consider him to be a profiteer. Just like I don't consider many public speakers and inspirational people to be profiteers. Everyone needs to make a living. I commend those who do it in search of truth and informing the uninformed. What do you profit from? What is your line of work ?


Peddling junk science that plays on peoples fears, and then cashing in on those fears to profit from them, to me is immoral. Its not different than the proverbial snake oil salesman, except they are a lot slicker, having websites and using psuedoscientific nonsense, to take advantage of a lack of science in others.

Sure, I could start my own internet business too, selling remedies for chemtrails and copper tubes to the orgone crowd. My personal morals however, prevent me from doing so. Looks like it would be easy cash though.

Len Horowitz and Will Thomas helped start this hoax, and they both immediately had things for sale. At the time it was books, which of course they each others books glowing reviews. I think Will Thomas never really ventured past though, but Len has made an entire cottage industry out of this nonsense.

edit on 22-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)


I just did a search for Leonard Horowitz on U-tube and Google. Look for yourself. I don't see anything popping up in the first results about chemtrails. If this was his bread and butter as you claim it is. Then why doesn't it show up?

GOOGLE
www.google.com...

YOUTUBE
www.youtube.com...

Do the things he has to say in this video scare you? If they do then now I know why you want to discredit him. Now I know why you want to call him a snake oil salesman.







edit on 22-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
...Why ? Because I know for a fact that they are real. I have seen the proof with my own eyes. If you want to come to California and look for yourself. Please by all means be my guest. Come look at the planes in action. Come watch them fly in ridiculous flight patterns criss crossing the sky. Stopping before reaching a mountain range and then turning back around. They are not up there training. They are not up there flying to any direct destination. They are up there for the purpose of spreading what ever it is they are spreading by whatever means they are using...

Do you have pictures you can post of the trails made by these planes that are turning back around upon reaching a mountain range? Could these have been planes in a holding pattern over SFO (or whichever airport you may have been near)?

..such as these trails:
contrailscience.com...

Or (if you are talking about the area around SFO) perhaps those were just planes coming originating from the west that would need to loop around to make the normal approach to runway 28. I know I was a passenger on planes into SFO in the past (coming from the East), and the approach took us over the mountains that include Mission Peak and Monument Peak.

I would assume a plane coming from the west but landing the same direction I did could possibly make their approach turn near those mountains.


edit on 3/22/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


No I am talking about planes over the central valley of California. Specifically the mountain range is called the "grapevine". It's where Interstate-5 leads into the Los Angeles area. I have taken a few trips to LA.. These were not commercial airlines. Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures. But the friends I went and visited told me they see them all the time. My girlfriend has family down there also. She recently went to visit and she has seen them too. Niether of us at the time knew anything about the whole chemtrail issue. I have lived near SFO for over 38 years. I saw flights all the time and I still do daily. Never have I seen this kind of behavior from an aircraft or a contrail before. I only now can put 2 + 2 together and it = CHEMTRAILS



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Do you have pictures you can post of the trails made by these planes that are turning back around upon reaching a mountain range? Could these have been planes in a holding pattern over SFO (or whichever airport you may have been near)?

..such as these trails:
contrailscience.com...

Or (if you are talking about the area around SFO) perhaps those were just planes coming originating from the west that would need to loop around to make the normal approach to runway 28. I know I was a passenger on planes into SFO in the past (coming from the East), and the approach took us over the mountains that include Mission Peak and Monument Peak.

I would assume a plane coming from the west but landing the same direction I did could possibly make their approach turn near those mountains.


edit on 3/22/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)


I only go on that website to laugh at the ridiculous spins and propaganda they put on stories. That is the most contrived dis info site I have ever seen in my whole life. That blows any chemmie website clear out of the sky when it comes to absolute lies, twists and spins.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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Let's follow up on this story shall we.......

contrailscience.com...





Do you agree with the findings of the website?



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

..such as these trails:
contrailscience.com...



I only go on that website to laugh at the ridiculous spins and propaganda they put on stories. That is the most contrived dis info site I have ever seen in my whole life. That blows any chemmie website clear out of the sky when it comes to absolute lies, twists and spins.


What is on there that is incorrect?

You keep saying much the same every time someone links to it - 10/10 consistancy - but you have yet to identify what it is that the site is lying about - 0/10 for backing up your claims.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 

Yes -- I agree that trail was most likely the trail left by a plane coming from the direction of the horizon heading toward the observer at sunset. I've seen similar trails at sunset near my location (although this one seemed more affected by wind).

Are you disputing that's what it was? If so, what is your evidence that shows it could not have been the contrail form a plane flying away from the horizon at sunset



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