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Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by madscientistintraining
 


I need to thank you for adding relevant information the this thread.


Also, for anyone lurking this thread keep in mind.
How to Know Who is a Government Employee on this Website




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by madscientistintraining
 



>sigh<

Wrong. (Partly right...):


a CONDENSATION trail is formed usually at the edge of a wingtip or other relative sharp area's of a plane and lasts for approximately FIFTEEN SECONDS....


What you describe there is a COMPRESSION and EXPANSION effect. Air, when flowing over and around an airframe, will undergo some compression. Air that is sufficiently "moist" (humid, high relative humidity) will, when compressed only a little, no longer be able to hold all of that water vapor, and some will CONDENSE out, and become visible. Once the air returns to its previous state, no longer disturbed by the passage of the airplane, it expands and the water evaporates back into the vapor state. There is the other component, expansion....and rapid cooling, FROM expansion, which will also make water vapor condense. BOTH processes are at work, and contribute to what is seen.

This is rather basic science.

Condensation, from COMPRESSION / EXPANSION / TEMPERATURE effects:


ATR turboprop flight. Interesting spirals of vapour from the blade tips on takeoff as the compression of the air forces the humidity condensing from vapour into liquid phase.




Starting at 2:00....and note how foggy/humid it is, that day. Also, temperature plays a role....warm air can hold much more water vapor, by weight, than cold air.

_____
Look how all of that very damp air makes the water vapor condense out, as it flows over the tops of the wings:



Also, at 1:30, the BA Boeing 737...look at the tips of the trailing edge flaps. Again, the airflow makes the air compress, here and there, as it flows over the airplane's surfaces.

_____

An F-14...extreme maneuvers, very humid day, high airspeeds:




_____
MACH speed compression effect. Sonic boom. This jet is NOT SPRAYING ANYTHING!!!:




_____



NOW....this is completely wrong!!!:


CHEMICAL trails come from the engine turbines of a plane....


.....the only "chemicals" are what's in the normal engine exhaust gasses, left over from the combustion of the fuel. Just as your automobile exhaust has "chemicals" too, for same reason. Of course, if you want to get technical, WATER is a "chemical". It's a molecule, and that's "chemistry"...so....water in the exhaust?? Yes, that too.....and you know what? The last part of the sentence YOU wrote, IS correct!!:


.... and form clouds which can en mass entirely cover a portion of the sky.


Yup! That is what happens, up at altitude. BUT, only when it is "moist" enough, and cold enough....and, then it is EXACTLY proper for normal other clouds to form, too. I hope you won't insist on arguing that clouds don't form, and stay around for hours and hours??? :shk:


One more demonstration --- a cloud in a bottle:




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by MallardDuck
 





LOL!!! "Government Employee"???

Ducky, you are such a 'quack-up'!!



Such paranoia.....I think there are some real concerns that should receive actual attention, in terms of what any "government employees" may be doing!!



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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The OPs avatar seems fitting with this thread.

Running in circles over nothing.


I'm sorry but I'll have to agree sourcing another thread as proof doesn't cut it IMO.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by MallardDuck
 


By the definitions on that thread, it's clear that those of us refuting chemtrails are not Government agents, though questions might be asked of those promoting the hoax



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


It's Mrs. Debunker, thank you very much.

You are the one who brought it up, therefore you are the one who has to prove it is being used.

Okay, Governmental Disinformationalist Debunkers.......how many of you have read some of the reports from the links today at anytime? Really, Mathias that's just silly. We sound the same because the science is the same. It's why we feel safe saying there are no "chemtrails" with reasonable sureity. Science, and relevent scientists agree with our side.

And you are showing a fallstreak hole. It is a natural formation caused by the Bergeron process, a chain-reaction started in a layer of stratus clouds. Sometimes there is a contrail that starts the process, but it is only because they are providing the nucleating particles necessary for the process to begin. As the condensation makes heavier water droplet/ice crystals, they fall leaving streaks called virga, because they evaporate/sublime before reaching the ground.
Sometimes the process just starts, with no known cause, because that is the beauty and wonder of chaos theory.
It's not "chemtrails", it's a known.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by laslidealist
 


Science advances. What was thought to be global warming is still up for debate.
I don't believe in it. I feel it's more easily linked into the sun.

And knowing that, I feel it's downright stupid to use as an excuse to not believe any science from any source.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by madscientistintraining
 


So you don't believe in clouds?
You must not, because a cloud, which is water droplets or ice crystals and dirty air can and do persist for much longer than 15 seconds.
I say a contrail, which is what all the trails are, is ice crystals and exhaust fumes or dirty air. Therefore they can last and persist for hours, drift for miles, spread out to a thin layer or be pulled apart and blown away by wind, just like a cloud can.

How does your theory fit clouds into the equation?



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by madscientistintraining
 




I should add there are uncountable amounts of rainwater data that show abnormal amounts of barium


Ground water and ground level air samples which do not exclude all other possible sources of the minerals involved are absolutely meaningless. Barium is a crustal element, meaning it's in dirt. Anything that raises a cloud of dirt is putting barium in the air. It has applications in industry, construction, and agriculture.
Barium is very, very common. It would be odd to not find it in a ground water source.

And the one test that seems to have started the whole thing, a news story from Louisiana is completely debunkable. Even the reporter admits he was wrong.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Keep up the good work MathiasAndrew. Chemtrails exist, that is a fact, and there are a number of different reasons for them. I do not know of or believe that any organisation involved has the specific aim of poisoning the population but there is no doubt that what they are doing is not healthy for people and definitely not for the enviroment.

Some Facts -
- Every US state already has laws in place to protect the practice.
Example: Colarado 36-20-123 (1) The mere dissemination of materials and substances into the atmosphere pursuant to an unauthorised project shall not give rise to the contention or concept that the use of the atmosphere constitutes trespass or involves an actionable or enjoinable private or public nuisance.

- Debunkers do not deny that weather modification programmes exist, or that they involve chemicals being dispersed into the atmosphere from planes. Their argument is usually that it is not a big industry which is wrong. Over 40 countries involved because if they don't seed and their neighbour does, they will suffer dry conditions.

- US States are given the ultimatum of either undertaking regular cloud seeding or being risk being denied access to water reserves in dry times.

Some interesting links -
Aero- Systems manufacturers and fits the equipment

Deepwater Chemicals - supplies some of the chems

That is just cloud seeding. I won't even go into the increasing problem commercial airliners have been experiencing with solid particle deposits in their fuel systems. Or that strict regulations relating to the use of fuel additives have been relaxed to allow the use of additives which have been designed to fix the fuel system problems. And we definitely wont discuss that these additives were designed by a joint team from the petro-chemical industry and the US department of defence.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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S+F. Keep spreading, Ive stopped posting on ats cause the Admins allow Govt. Shills to destroy serious topics.

Childish behavior. But, just wait until the Govts. world wide announces 'the solution to the Cancer human cause of Global Warming' is the Shield of Ra... Then you'll see a 180 turn around from these people,they must now troll every thread convinsing people it must be done in the name of Co2 destruction of the Planet...


Just Wait ! ! It is due...



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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Check out this thread with photo's after a heavy chemtrail/contrail day.

HAARP? Chemtrails?



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by IndieA
 


It is considered impolite, in poor taste, and generally frowned upon to engage is spamming other threads, as you are doing, in order to promote your OWN!!

Your thread is about a very well-understood phenomenon. There are many examples, and anyone can research into it:

www.google.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by madscientistintraining
 




I should add there are uncountable amounts of rainwater data that show abnormal amounts of barium.


Care to share some of these?



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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And here we go again.

It amazes me the amount of attention this topic draws from the "debunkers".

The same tactics are used time and time again to disprove chemtrails, even though you cannot prove something doesn't exist.

You can prove that contrails exist; You can prove that contrails spread out and form clouds; You can prove that industry pollutes barium into the ground, water, and air.

In the end, none of it proves that chemtrails (whichever definition you choose to apply) do not exist.

So, keeping in mind it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist, have a look at these threads and the same tactics applied:

Chemtrailers: Your time is NOW!

Chemtrailers are People, Too.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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i am sorry to inform you all that OP is under a posting ban at the moment
he sends this parting message:




Future NASA Aerosol Studies NASA's ongoing Atmospheric Effects of Aviation Project (AEAP) has measured emissions from the engines of several commercial and research aircraft. Jet engine emissions have been shown to affect the concentrations of atmospheric water vapor and aerosols, and they may affect how clouds form and the concentrations of atmospheric ozone. Few actual measurements of their effects have been made, however. In the spring of 1996, the Subsonic Aircraft Contrail and Cloud Effects Special Study (SUCCESS) focused on subsonic aircraft contrails and the impact of the aerosols in those contrails on cirrus clouds and atmospheric chemistry. Researchers have determined that aircraft contrails can prolong the presence of high altitude cirrus clouds while also decreasing the size of the ice crystals that make up the clouds.Studies like SUCCESS and AEAP will be ongoing as scientists continue to try to understand how aerosols affect our atmosphere and climate.


and let's all calm down TCOTBIP are having a laugh at us with the disinfo agents accusations.

remember: divide and conquer

also remember that not everybody with a materialist point of view is a DA, just a little close-minded, though i'll be fair and point out that chadwickus seems more open minded than most, he's just waiting for proof. also pilots who post for the Contrail theory need to remember that just because you are not in on the conspiracy, doesn't mean it doesn't exist,

what it means is you are being fooled/tricked too.
CTers need IMO to clean up their act a bit re providing evidence and need to better homework


chadwickus you say we need to get samples but do we really need a plane?

why not one of these:

DIY Drones

what kind of equipment would be needed in one of these babies to take samples?
any input?
edit on 4-3-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: fixed quote



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater
 


Odd, you come in and go after 'debunkers' and then say this:



You can prove that contrails exist; You can prove that contrails spread out and form clouds; You can prove that industry pollutes barium into the ground, water, and air.


Which shows that you at least "get it" but then you go after 'debunkers' again, you even link to a thread of mine claiming it as proof that it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist.

Which suggests that you don't 'get it', because my thread was to show that chemtrails could be proven.

I'm just waiting for someone to do it!

Until then...



You can prove that contrails exist


If it looks like a duck.



You can prove that contrails spread out and form clouds


If it walks like a duck



You can prove that industry pollutes barium into the ground, water, and air.


If it quacks like a duck

You know the rest.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Essan
 



Chemtrails are what we call contrails or manmade cirrus - and they are formed by aircraft flying in the troposphere.

But by all means show me a photograph showing a chemtrail that can be proven not to be in the troposphere (excluding pictures of space shuttles etc)


I didn't have my video camera with me but when I came home this morning from London via DC in our Lear 55, we definitely made a contrail above the tropopause when cruising at 51,000' over Labrador. (I looked when we turned leaving the North Atlantic Track) The troposphere ends at the tropopause which is defined as the altitude where the lapse rate falls below (and stays below) 2 degrees C/km. The trop changes by day and night and by latitude. It varies from around 36,000' in the polar regions to upwards of 58,000 at the equator. See graph



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


The drone is an angle I hadn't thought of before, it would have to be a pretty good one though, remember they need to get to 30,000+ feet where the planes are at cruising altitude.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


i'm a bit miffed that i didn't see you there; you changed avatars again.
why all the changes [sorry if OT but you did not visit my thread to explain why, and providing a link would be spamming ehh?] this one is definitely better than Lucy

regarding my previous post and the question i directed towards chadwickus re necessary equipment required for a homemade drone to carry i'd appreciate some input from you as well.


expecting prompt reply

P.S. no i am not taking over thread just participating.









 
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