Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Yes I agree that weedwacker is an expert on all planes etc but my point is still valid because lets say that chemtrail's are real i know its not something you like to entertain but I am asking you to because it proves a point I'm trying to make.
Now if there are planes that are used for spraying its unlikely you would build a plane esp for that purpose as it would be cheaper to modify a plane already in use.
So with that in mind an expert may look at a plane and say that is a Boeing 747 or kc 10a etc but in order for you to say that the plane has not been modified to spray chemicals you must know what a plane that has been modified dose look like in order to call the pic of that plane a fake.
would you not agree

Well here you go, maybe you are right after all

And the video you posted there is about what? It's a total spoof and an intentional hoax and your feeble attempt at making a mockery of the subject. You people are the biggest hypocrites.

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
Here''s a good video on chemtrail dis-info agents.

www.youtube.com...

Oh god, not that crap yet again.

I got to :15 seconds, before I heard yet another reference to that stupid "WITWATS" movie, and bringing up Aluminum. Aluminum makes up on average around 8 percent of the ground, and that movie tries to create alarmism and hysteria over amounts of much less. Its a total junk science movie for people who are willing to turn their minds off and not question what they are told.

There was no point in watching it if they think the science in that mockumentary is sound. But to a chemmie, that movie is the epitome of modern science.

Oh the irony

Custom Google Search

Search for.......Persistent contrails.......5 results 0 relevant results

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From: 01/01/1900 ...... To: 01/01/1990
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FSPLANET.COM
Jan 2, 1987 - Despite the immediate negative reply the AARTCC was persistent: .... The UA captain could see the contrail as well as the jet but nothing else. ...
www.fsplanet.com/ditano4b.htm - Cached - Similar

The Fantastic Flight of JAL1628
Jan 2, 1987 - Despite the immediate negative reply the AARTCC was persistent: .... The UA captain could see the contrail as well as the jet but nothing else. ...
www.nicap.org/reports/jal1628-2.htm - Cached - Similar

Pay Articles from December 1977 Part 1 - Site Map - The New York Times
Dec 31, 1977 - ... Some Persistent Tax Shelters Taxes and Accounting: Some Persistent Tax .... G.M.BUS PACT STIRS PROTEST IN QUEBEC; $92 Million Contract Provokes a Bitter ...
spiderbites.nytimes.com/pay_1977/articles_1977_12_00000.html

[PDF] BRONCHIAL ASTHMA AND ENVIRONMENT**
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by UK SHARMA - 1985 - Related articles
Apr 30, 1985 - Healthy Contrail. 77. Groups. Strong Reactors. Weak Reactors. Non -Reactors. SAFA IHA .... persistent humoral antibodies as well as with cellular immunity. ...
openmed.nic.in/2811/01/April85a.pdf

目錄總表(Contents) - 連到氣象科技研究research and development
Nov 18, 1971 - ... 01/03, 39, 1955.09, 凝結雲探測實驗, How to Forecast Jet-plane Contrail? ...... The mean Pressure Field Characteristic to Persistent Cold Waves in the ...
photino.cwb.gov.tw/rdcweb/lib/cd/cd07mb/contents.htm

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Contrails - Various (01) www.contrails.nl...
May 4, 1995 - Persistent contrails form immediately behind the airplane in very moist air. ... Persistent contrails can exist long after the airplane that made them has ...
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[PDF] Contrail observations from space using NOAA-AVHRR data elib.dlr.de...
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May 4, 1995 - for the formation of persistent contrails. The atmospheric conditions for contrail formation are extensively described in 3]. ...
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by LR Benson - 1992
Feb 18, 1992 - appear as a flight of delta wing aircraft leaving white contrails ...... persistent problem. In 1984, several years after cancellation of the Continental ...
www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA259658&Location=U2..

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I'm not sure what the purpose of that post was, but if you are saying that people didn't talk much about the term "persistent contrails" prior to 1996, then you may be right -- but there are reasonable explanations for this.

There were probably not as many reasons to even use the term "persistent contrails" until chemtrail believers began saying that contrails do not persist. That doesn't mean that contrails did not persist in the past -- that only means that term was not used as often (in documents that could be found on the internet) to describe long-lasting contrails that spread out into clouds.

It may be true that the usage of that term in documents (specifically, documents that may be on the internet) increased around 1995 -- but that could be because: (1) the internet was not really around before then, and (2) there was no one disputing that contrails could not persist until then. If there is no dispute, then of course there would be fewer uses of that term.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

By the way...I did my own search, and came up with a document published in 1972 about persisting contrails by atmospheric researcher Robert Knollenberg. So, obviously in 1972, the idea that contrail could last for hours and spread into cloud cover was a known phenomenon.

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
(This links directly to a PDF file)

Here is an excerpt:

... If sufficient air carrier traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in ice budget in individual contrails...

It should be noted here that Robert Knollenberg was someone who was semi-known in the field of atmospheric research, including attempts at weather modification (producing rain through cloud-seeding). However, like much of the weather modification research in the 1970s, his weather modification research most likely had benevolent intentions, such as reducing drought, which could be a endeavor that is beneficial to world food supplies.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Aye, well I don't understand the point of any of his posts! But as far as reference to persistent contrails is concerned, isn't the Appleman Chart in itself sufficient evidence the term was in widespread aeronautical use back in the 1950s? And the Peter Kuhn paper from 1970 (referenced by Knollenberg) also refers to contrails persisting and spreading across the sky.

Unfortunately a lot of papers from that era have never been added to cyberspace. But the fact that few scientific papers that are available on the internet use the term persistent contrail in their title is neither here nor there.

Although maybe in trollheim it's different?

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

And the video you posted there is about what? It's a total spoof and an intentional hoax and your feeble attempt at making a mockery of the subject. You people are the biggest hypocrites.

edit on 17-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text

Yep, that video is entirely a spoof, but chemmies have still posted it here before thinking it was real. Its meant to be funny and makes a mockery of chemtrail religion

WITSATS is junk science, and an attempt to decieve people.

What in the world are they smoking? is an analysis of the actual content of WITWATS minute by minute.

Only Matty wil be surprised that there simply is no content - it is all non-squiters, illogical leaps of faith, statements of the bleedin' obvious with no appaernt actual link to the topic, hand wringing, paranoid "what if" scenarios with nothing to show that the scenario is or has ever happened, etc.

And when WITWATS does actually manage to attempt some "real science" with "water samples", we find that it their tests are...um...putting it politely......scientifically unsound.

But Matty just says we're liars and have a biased viewpoint - at least he gets that half right - we do have a biased viewpoint - biased against junk science, illogic, proof by assertion, and biased in favour of verifiable evidence, good science, and logical reasoning.

not going to apologise for those biases tho

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

By the way...I did my own search, and came up with a document published in 1972 about persisting contrails by atmospheric researcher Robert Knollenberg. So, obviously in 1972, the idea that contrail could last for hours and spread into cloud cover was a known phenomenon.

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
(This links directly to a PDF file)

Here is an excerpt:

... If sufficient air carrier traffic exists, an entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in ice budget in individual contrails...

It should be noted here that Robert Knollenberg was someone who was semi-known in the field of atmospheric research, including attempts at weather modification (producing rain through cloud-seeding). However, like much of the weather modification research in the 1970s, his weather modification research most likely had benevolent intentions, such as reducing drought, which could be a endeavor that is beneficial to world food supplies.

edit on 3/17/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

Robert Knollenberg is a pretty smart guy, he has also invented laser probes for cloud physics research that can measure water droplet size, in addition to all that atmospheric research he did. He daughter was working on her PhD in Organic Chem, and his brother is/was a congressman in Michigan.

Originally posted by Qcuailon
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Sorry I missed this post when you made it.

Why does it matter to you? What's your agenda?

My agenda is that I am an aircraft mechanic, who worked on jet airliners, did maintenance planning for airlines, worked as a quality assurance engineering for airlines and maintenance providers, and i would have to be part of this conspiracy.

Since I know that I am not it is an insult to me that people keep suggesting that it exists.

Sure I could choose to ignore it - many people in my position do os. But a few of us are incensed enough by the stupidity of it all that we choose to expose the hoax at every available opportunity.

I also am insulted as a human being that my "fellow" species members aer so damned gullible as to believe this drivel - sure it's fair enough to be suspicious, and even to look at YT vids when they come out & think "WTF is going on here??".....

But once it is obvious that the assertions of a conspiracy are unsupportable by any credible evidence, it is also fair to say so!

Oh, let me guess...its truth, justice, and the American way...right?

I am not American - although I have a brother-in-law and a niece who are US citizens I've visited the USA a couple of times..for about 4 weeks time total...nice place to visit, love the technology...more than happy to be living somewhere else TYVM.

These are the things that you stand for, and you simply cannot let what you view as misinformation being spewed on YOUR FORUM. RIGHT?

Wrong, and it's a public forum, not mine.

What if you're wrong? What if you're absolutely 100% DEAD WRONG? What if all that information you're parroting over and over has absolutely NO MERIT and was simply made up so that fools who think like you could sleep better? Gee, how easy would that be?

well then i'd be rightly pissed off.

Got any evidence that I am wrong?

I say that evidence is everything - if yuo can show that I'm wrong then I will have to change my posiion, admit my error and do a big "mea culpa".

So go for it - prove me wrong.

NAH...trusting people like yourself could never be lied to, or...misinformed.
So obviously, that absolutely couldn't be possible...could it? Nope. You've got the goods on reality, and no one else, except for those who think the exact same as yourself, do...Is that what I'm getting here?

Dunno - of course we could be lied to.

So could you.

Given the preponderance of evidence that says that contrails are jsut contrails I think it far more likely that chemtrails are the lie, and contrails teh truth.

But, as I say, I'm happy to entertain whatever evidence you think you have.

But it will be examined by me and others for its veracity.

Your contrail is another man's chemtrail. Its pollution...period.

huh?

of course it is pollution - who ever said otherwise??

Is that your point?? that burning hydrocarbons makes pollution??

the chemtrail hoax is not about ordinary pollution from buring hydrocarbons - it is about doctoring the fuel, or spraying something else entirely, to achieve some nefarious end - did you not realise that it's about moe than "just" pollution??

If you think having lingering garbage in our atmosphere is good for us, then please, just raise your hand.

I do not.

Otherwise, you're a contributor to a very large problem.

Well I'm very glad that I'm not part of the problem! Thansk for that!

While you sit and play your silly game of denial, more of that crap is being spewed into our atmosphere. Do you want to argue about THAT TOO?

not at all - and I wish the chemtrailers would realise what you say and direct their efforts against pollution instead of fantasy conspiracies - if they did so they might actually do some good!

I have downloaded an app called plane spotter for the iphone. What struck me of interest was that none of the planes that seemed to be laying these persistent trails are shown on this real time display. It is very easy to identify the other aircraft that you can see, including other high altitude aircraft, but never for the planes with the persistent trails. This is only from my own experience and I would be interested if anyone else has this app and what their findings are.

reply to post by dandarent


Plane finder does not identify all commercial flights - only those using ADS-B technology - which is brand new - so brand new that many current GPS systems cannot support it and will have to be replaced as the technology becomes compulsory over the years - the USA won't have it completely in place until 2013 - and perhaps as many as 150,000 aircraft will need to have the technology fitted - eg see ads-bforga.blogspot.com...

It has been trialed in alaska for about 10 years - see www.militaryaerospace.com...

I would hazard a guess that any new large a/c coming from the manufacturer will ahve it fitted, and UPS have apparently fitted it to their entire fleet, but that leaves a lot of older a/c and otehr operators who have not got it yet.

Originally posted by dandarent
I have downloaded an app called plane spotter for the iphone. What struck me of interest was that none of the planes that seemed to be laying these persistent trails are shown on this real time display. It is very easy to identify the other aircraft that you can see, including other high altitude aircraft, but never for the planes with the persistent trails. This is only from my own experience and I would be interested if anyone else has this app and what their findings are.

Thanks for the info Dandarent. Regardless if it doesn't recognize all flights, it is still another helpful tool that can be used to determine what planes can and can not be ruled out if suspected of flying chemtrail missions. These are some other useful tools people can use. If you spot what you believe is a chemtrail plane or chemtrail cloud. Please try to document the event. Via photographs, video, personal notes of direction and time. Characteristics and movements of the cloud or plane. Then try checking it with flightaware.com... to try and determine if the plane is flying a scheduled route to it's destination. Then you can try to view the chemtrail cloud using some weather satellite websites. Here's a few i'm sure there are plenty others you can use as well. Try using the infrared option if available. Clouds do not usually appear on infra red the same way as chemtrails / contrails do.

NOAA National Weather Service Saqtellites for the USA
www.weather.gov...

UK and Europe weather satellite images
www.sat24.com...

Real Time Weather Data
www.rap.ucar.edu...

Please feel free to post any evidence you come across either here or at this site below
.www.facebook.com...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


WOW did I just read that right?
quotelane finder does not identify all commercial flights - only those using ADS-B technology - which is brand new - so brand new that many current GPS systems cannot support it and will have to be replaced as the technology becomes compulsory over the years - the USA won't have it completely in place until 2013 - and perhaps as many as 150,000 aircraft will need to have the technology fitted
Now I have brought up that these planes do not follow routes used by commercial jet's I've watched in the sky for the last 10 year's that I have lived here and many here have given me air traffic program's to prove there point that it's normal air traffic even though when I've checked the planes shown on the site in real time there is no sign of the spray planes on these sites.
Now we have another member of the contrailer's here debunking something that other contrailer's have used to debunk me so perhaps a friend of mine was right that given enough time the information given to support a lie would eventually expose the lie .

I haven't seen this posted yet, so let's thicken the plot a bit. Suppose some loose lips were telling the truth in outing a certain private airline involved in the chemtrail "hoax" as a CIA black op front. OTH, if the guy is FOS, then perhaps he needs a good barium enema. LOL But OTH, if he's telling the truth, he may not be around to spill any more beans in the future. Just a little food for thought. Too many questions, too few answers. . Have a good day!

reply to post by Toots


How many hundred aircraft did Evergreen have flying over the UK last week? And why were they following commercial airline flight paths?

Or maybe what people see and called chemtrails are just contrails after all?

Just a though

reply to post by Toots


brilliant find my friend I notice that someone jumped on it quick but not to debunk the report itself which I must say is explosive and dose give huge weight to the chemtrail's in the states but just to point out that those evergreen planes where not flying here in the UK so in affect by not attacking the report what is he saying[I maybe wrong] but it seams to me that he thinks there is a program in America but not here in the UK.

Originally posted by Toots
I haven't seen this posted yet, so let's thicken the plot a bit. Suppose some loose lips were telling the truth in outing a certain private airline involved in the chemtrail "hoax" as a CIA black op front. OTH, if the guy is FOS, then perhaps he needs a good barium enema. LOL But OTH, if he's telling the truth, he may not be around to spill any more beans in the future. Just a little food for thought. Too many questions, too few answers. .

Have a good day!

Suppose some gullible people believed anything they read online, just because its on the internet.
Pinal airpark being like Area 51...hahaha

You should like to the video on aircrap off the airplanes there too while you are at it. Just dont pay attention the fact that many of them have parts removed and have not flown in years

reply to post by firepilot


The report there dose bring up a good point that if security is as tight as you find at area 51 then it tell's me that they have something to hide.
So your attempt to debunk it is flawed by that part alone.
In the other page he posted there was another item I saw which may help others understand how a chemtrail's project can be kept underwraps take a look
If the chemtrail operations seem too big to keep under wraps, consider the Manhattan Project (which developed the A-bomb). It was equivalent in size to the American automobile industry, employing about 130,000 people! It was kept entirely secret with compartmentalization, a current practice which keeps information divided and separate.

reply to post by djcarlosa

Yes. It was kept a secret. Not many outside of the project knew anything about it.

Unlike "chemtrails", which are in plain site and has had thousands of people "investigating" it for at least a decade. An "investigation" which has found no evidence.