Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew


What's this then ?
searche.battelle.org...

Engineers at Battelle integrated and installed a fuel reformation and hydrogen purification system in a prototype fuel cell auxiliary power unit and operated the unit on sulfur-free synthetic jet fuel. Battelle Powers the Military with a Cleaner and More Efficiently Used Fuel What is a Fuel Cell?

Its not what you are claiming. And it has absolutely nothing to do with your chemtrails either, why do you keep doing this to yourself? I dont even see the other chemmies stepping in to defend you.

What you linked to, is them trying to make a CLEANER burning fuel, that has less sulfur pollution that would damage a vehicle fuel cell. They first ran their fuel cells on synthetic jet fuel, then subsequently modified (not manufactured) diesel fuel, and then JP-8 jet fuel, by removing the sulfur so that fuel cells can be ran on standard military jet fuels like JP-8.

Again, nothing to do with your chemtrail religion

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Case Orange is a self serving piece of rubbish that fails to establish anything of interest othe than NATO's AWACs are civil registered and should have their engines updated.

It says its own evidence is adequate - as judged by its own authors - that alone should show you that it is not a serious scientific report despite it's attempts to be so.

Just for the record here's its conclusions & recommendations with some obvious comments - I more-or-less wrote this at another site - I've tidied it up a bit here and added a few more comments:

Conclusions:

When combining the knowledge of the formation of contrails, the effects of Cirrus clouds on climate, the historical records of weather manipulation programs, the scientific studies on geo-engineering through modification of Cirrus clouds, the available and patented technology coupled with reactions of pilots on the internet one can only come to the following conclusions:
1. Manipulation of climate through modification of Cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory, ...

Oh really? What's the evidence for it??

.....but currently the best option in geo-engineering considered by decision makers to counter global warming. The impact of production of artificial Cirrus clouds on temperature and precipitation patterns is supported by adequate hard scientific evidence.

This much is almsot true enough - if they hadn't prefaced it with the unproven assertion, and said it was one option among many instead of "the best option" then it would probably be a valid conclusion!

2. The ambition of the United States is to control the weather by the year 2025, both for civil and military purposes (offensive and defensive strategies). This research paper contains a proven track record to support that statement.

This is an obvious illogical leap from the paper “Owning the weather”, which was (is) a thought exercise and not a plan for how to actually control the world wide climate. Attempts to control local weather through cloud seeding, such as the US carried out in Vietnam, are not “chemtrails” as they are commonly understood.

3. The technology to organize spraying actions on a global scale is widely available. Both civil and military aviation is used for that purpose. The mix, containing oxides of metals and chemical components, can either be dispersed through special designed pods or directly incorporated into the jet fuel. This research paper is well documented in this respect.

This section leaps from the premise that the technology is available to the conclusion that the technology is being used – I was unable to determine what the “well documented” evidence for this conclusion was in the paper - it appears the authors have assessed the validity of their own information to determine the adequacy of their documetnation - rather than subject the paper to proper peer review.

4. Since the patents are owned by the main defense contractor for the U.S. armed forces (Raytheon) or the U.S. department of defense itself and given the history record it is obvious that current climate manipulation programs are organized and directed by the United States government.

Presumes that the spraying is taking place in the first place. Assumes that the patents identified are required for any such programme and nothing else could possibly be used, which seems patent (sic) nonsense - technically, spraying anything is probably trivial - there are numerous possible systems that COULD be used.

5. The spraying actions in Europe are only possible with prior approval and intense co-ordination on top government level and industry on executive level. The general public is intentionally kept unaware of the existence of such projects.

Presumes that the spraying is taking place in the first place and that “such projects” exist.

6. Although the spraying actions may be considered legal these actions may have a potential detrimental effect on health. There is sufficient scientific evidence available in this research paper to support this thesis.

There is no evidence presented that “spraying operations” are taking place at all – the whole paper follows the usual chemtrails tactic of begging the question and then fitting the facts to the preconceptions.
Self-servingly decides what constitutes “sufficient scientific evidence”

Report recommendations:
It is not the purpose of this research paper to give a moral appreciation of these actions. Nevertheless the investigation team unanimously comes to the following recommendations for the future:
a) Artificial Cirrus clouds should be classified as a separate cloud genus by the WMO. Additional scientific research with the effects on nature and public health on this subject should be considered. Results -whatever the outcome- should be made public.

I don’t think anyone has an issue with this – other than they seem unaware of the studies that are doing exactly this, and that the idea has been around, in the public arena, for several decades.

b) It is unacceptable that the Awacs aircraft fleet under NATO operates under a Luxemburg civil registration without complying with civil aviation regulations. This is a flagrant violation of the law and this should be corrected in the near future.

Unacceptable to who? Apparently Luxembourgers have no problems with it – who are the authors to tell Luxembourg what they can and can not do??
There is nothing inherently illegal about military aircraft not being required to meet civil aviation requirements, whether civil registered or not.

Given the very unfavorable engine emission ratios of this aircraft retrofitting of these engines should be considered as soon as practical.

Are engine types relevant to chemtrails? They are certainly relevant to contrails and general pollution, which the report points out, but what is the connection to chemtrails??

Are they saying that only NATO AWACs a/c with old engines make contrails??

I actually agree that older engines should be replaced to help reduce pollution.....but I fail to see the connection to chemtrails, other than perhaps they seek to gain some credibility for the report by putting in one piece of blindingly obvious commentary about a/c pollution.

c) When considering a legal case it is better to sue an industrial group, such as Raytheon, rather than a government agency. It is clear for us that the responsibility of Raytheon in this respect is far reaching with the creation of a monopoly in climate modeling and weather as a geo-engineering or military instrument.

See my previous comments about the lack of evidence either of such a programme exists, or that such patents have identified being used, or that such patents are the only possible means that COULD be used

If possible an international ban should be placed on such weapons.

Apparently the NWO agrees, and the UN has done so. Yay for the UN!

d) Although the existence of weather modification projects have been illustrated in an adequate way in this research paper it is now the duty of a serious politician on any level to make enquiries to the government for public release of these spraying schemes through aviation. It is mandatory that such statement should include the reason why such operations are conducted. It is not an option to hide behind the motive of national security.

Again self-serving assessment of the adequacy of their own proof.

Peer review of REAL scientific papers relies upon the adequacy of evidence being tested by other people – not by the writers saying that it is good enough.

Battelle measures the aerosols of an emission cloud

searche.battelle.org...

The chemical measurements will employ an array of instruments and samplers including highly sensitive and specific real-time air sampling mass spectrometers, whole air collectors, aerosol samplers, and individual monitors for specific chemical species. Several special technologies will be employed to account for dilution either by measuring the volume of the emission cloud (3-D photogrammetry, aerosol lidar), or by tracking dilution via a chemical tracer (carbon mass balance, inert noble gas).

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


congratulations - you have successfully shown that they can measure some characteristics of emission clouds.

I hope that makes you very happy

I expect they will find a lot of work for that system checking on industrial emissions.

Did you find anything about chemtrails??

The words "modeling studies" is in part the study of chemtrails

searche.battelle.org...

U.S. DOE Work To support decision-making in a changing global climate, Battelle conducts advanced measurement and modeling studies to measure the effects of greenhouse gases and clouds in the atmosphere for the U.S. Department of Energy. www.battelle.org... 3.8KB - Internet 42% |||||||||||||||||||| 21 Aug 01 Highlight

Battelle has climate adaptation experts on the IPCC commitee

searche.battelle.org...

Battelle: Battelle's Paul Kirshen named to Climate Adaptation Experts Committees Battelle: Battelle's Paul Kirshen named to Climate Adaptation Experts Committees Kirshen climate change adaptation IPCC ICLEI go; RSS Home • About Us • Solutions • Lab Management • Ventures • Community • Diversity • Working with Us • Careers • News © Battelle Memorial Institute 2011. www.battelle.org... 0.6KB - Internet

Battelle studies cloud formations around the globe to help understand global climate change

searche.battelle.org...

ar 02. ar 02 SOLVING NATIONAL AND GLOBAL PROBLEMS 15 Global climate change is just one of many national and global problems that Battelle is helping solve. © NASA/Roger Ressmeyer/Corbis This is why scientists do science. Whether that means addressing global climate change, solving respiratory health problems, or enhancing our energy security, the goal is to make life better, easier or simpler than it was before. SOLVING NATIONAL AND GLOBAL PROBLEMS SOLVING NATIONAL AND GLOBAL PROBLEMS 16 No problem is more challenging than the issue of global climate change. SOLVING NATIONAL AND GLOBAL PROBLEMS 17 Battelle is working on a number of fronts to understand and address global climate change. National laboratory and university researchers are studying cloud formations around the globe to learn more about climate change.

Battelle changes the World .............literally
searche.battelle.org...

untitled untitled. untitled At Battelle, we change the world every day. We do it by finding innovative ways to measure and control greenhouse gas emissions in an effort to deal with global climate change and by developing alternative energy sources that are safe, efficient, and environmentally friendly. Not only do we focus on change that protects and preserves the earth, but also on change that protects and helps humankind. Among the foremost challenges are global climate change and the ever-present need for clean air and water. CHANGING THE WORLD 8 CHANGING THE WORLD 9 Oak Ridge National Laboratory is leading a project aimed at developing a digital eye to help improve or restore eyesight. www.battelle.org... 15.3KB - Internet

Wow, your thread has went away from chemtrails since it was exposed that their single turboprop aircraft is outfitted for air sampling, and now you are just posting random stuff about them.

Either they are a new boogieman for you, or you are just like talking about them. But you are just posting random stuff about them now that is not relevant to anything.

reply to post by mikellmikell


Here is the patent which explains how they take toxic waste and turn it into fuel

www.freepatentsonline.com...

A further aspect of the invention includes a method for treating a hazardous or toxic material including contacting the material with a ferrate compound(VI), and a phase transfer catalyst, wherein the hazardous or toxic material is rendered less hazardous or toxic. The hazardous or toxic material is typically a chemical warfare agent, a herbicide, or a pesticide. One method may include removing a contaminant from a material by the steps of contacting the material with a ferrate compound(VI), a phase transfer catalyst wherein the material is reduced contaminant content. The material is typically a crude oil, coal, or natural gas or their derivative.

FIG. 4 is a chromatogram of JP-8 jet fuel showing a GC/PFPD (gas chromatograph/pulsed flame photometric detector) analysis of the fuel as supplied before treatment with ferrate. FIG. 5 is a chromatogram of JP-8 jet fuel showing a GC/PFPD (gas chromatograph/pulsed flame photometric detector) analysis of the fuel after oxidation, hydrolysis and neutralization treatment with ferrate.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


No - there is a patent where they take toxic wastes an decontaminate them using Ferrate.

One of the applications is decontaminating fuel such as JP8 - specifically desulphurisation.

Your quote about JP8 chromatograph relates to showing that the ferrate treatment has actually made the changes expected - removal of excess sulphur:

The JP-8 jet fuel containing 443 ppm of total sulfur, as determined by ASTM D5453, was selected for evaluation. GC/PFPD analysis of this JP-8 resulted in the chromatogram shown in FIG. 4. The JP-8 was not diluted prior to analysis but was injected with a 100:1 split. Greater than 270 separate peaks were present in this chromatogram.

And a couple of paragraphs later:

Two changes in the chromatographic profile of the oxidized JP-8 were considered. The first change was the almost complete loss of sulfur compounds eluting between 25 minutes and 45 minutes. As noted above these compounds were likely disulfides and thiols which should have been easily oxidized by the ferrate. The second change was the appearance of sulfur compounds eluting after 60 minutes and an increased response for compounds eluting between 55 minutes and 60 minutes.

These observations correlated well with the predicted gas chromatographic behavior discussed above. The lower boiling point thiols and disulfides, normally eluting between 25 minutes and 45 minutes, were oxidized by reaction with ferrate creating new, oxygen containing compounds. The higher boiling point of these oxygen containing compounds resulted in later elution times, after 55 minutes. This explains the loss of the early eluting compounds and the appearance of the later eluting compounds in the oxidized JP-8

so they got rid of most of the sulphur via 2 mechanisms aer 2 different times of the process.

It then concludes:

The above results show that sulfur compounds can be effectively removed from a fuel such as jet fuel. Based on these results it is expected that nitrogen compounds and metal containing compounds can similarly be oxidized and the nitrogen and metals extracted.

So what you have "found" is that they have a method for reducing sulphur in jet fuel......but since sulphur is one of hte things that studies suggest might be sprayed as part of solar radiation management, I reckon this would REDUCE the impact of jet exhaust on global warming!

Well done - an important step in debunking the chemtrail nonsense - I knew you'd figure it out sooner or later!!

reply to post by Argyll


You seem to be the one spamming the thread with off topic posts. Why don't you post something that shows your research besides colorful straws or is that all you have to contribute ?

reply to post by Argyll


Every time you all ask for evidence and then when the evidence is presented you complain about copy and paste jobs. Your only purpose for commenting and being here seems to be to disrupt the topic and make ignorant comments. Why don't take your little jar of straws back to the pizza shack you work at. I'm sure the kids you stole them from would like them back now. Next time you want to try to be funny why don't you actually be funny instead of just funny looking.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Everytime we ask fo evidence and you cut and paste stuff it has no relevance to chemtrails - your latest one showed that your bogey man has a system for making jet fuel less of a problem by removing excess sulphur!!

I don't see how you can honestly blame anyone else.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


No what it shows is the process of making synthetic fuel that is used in jet engines that utilize the previously mentioned system they created for military engines.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


If you think that's what it is you either didn't actually read it or it was beyond your comprehension.

both of these are hallmarks of your concept of evidence.

Here's the relevant bit again - it's not that complicated:

The above results show that sulfur compounds can be effectively removed from a fuel such as jet fuel. Based on these results it is expected that nitrogen compounds and metal containing compounds can similarly be oxidized and the nitrogen and metals extracted.

To paraphrase - the system removes unwanted contaminants - they took excess sulphur out of JP8, and they expect to do the same to other fuels, and also to remove excess nitrogen and metallic compounds.

I don't expect acknowledgement from you that you are wrong tho - I am a realist!

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Argyll

 

Every time you all ask for evidence and then when the evidence is presented you complain about copy and paste jobs. Your only purpose for commenting and being here seems to be to disrupt the topic and make ignorant comments. Why don't take your little jar of straws back to the pizza shack you work at. I'm sure the kids you stole them from would like them back now. Next time you want to try to be funny why don't you actually be funny instead of just funny looking.

Oh not just copy and paste jobs, but posting irrelevant stuff, worthless youtube videos, websites that are not at all what you are claiming, and a link to a government research agency that has a single turboprop aircraft outfitted for air sampling.

Oops, we cant forget the faked pic of the 777 interior that you claimed was for chemtrails too. Yeah, that kind of evidence

reply to post by firepilot


at least the false photo was just him being conned

You forgot making 2 different patents look like they were the same document ......ie making stuff up!

Here's an excellent example of chemtrails photographed by satellites. The first half of the video shows hole punch clouds. The satellite images begin at approximately 1:49 of the video....I like the song too.....Enjoy


I don't really care what any of you debunkers believe or what any of you think you know. I don't care what you think of me either. You're all just a bunch of whiny spoiled little brats who probably haven't even graduated kindergarden and you obviously will never be able to understand the obvious connections Battelle has to the entire program of global climate change and chemtrails. You're never going to admit when you're wrong and you're all just being ignorant by continuing to deny the facts.

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Argyll

 

Every time you all ask for evidence and then when the evidence is presented you complain about copy and paste jobs. Your only purpose for commenting and being here seems to be to disrupt the topic and make ignorant comments. Why don't take your little jar of straws back to the pizza shack you work at. I'm sure the kids you stole them from would like them back now. Next time you want to try to be funny why don't you actually be funny instead of just funny looking.

Oh not just copy and paste jobs, but posting irrelevant stuff, worthless youtube videos, websites that are not at all what you are claiming, and a link to a government research agency that has a single turboprop aircraft outfitted for air sampling.

Oops, we cant forget the faked pic of the 777 interior that you claimed was for chemtrails too. Yeah, that kind of evidence

And I suppose you are the authority of what is relevant or not right ?. You're all just a joke to me
You wouldn't know what's relevant if it was flying right above your head .

What is relevant is that I proved that you're all a team of dis-info agents who need to put little stars next to each others pathetic comments to feel good about yourselves.

A ridiculous gang of motley fools living out what's left of your pathetic fiendish lives in complete disregard for anything good. A hopeless bunch of sicko psycho mentally deranged and physically challenged orphans. :