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Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

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posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 

where are you getting 2 years from I've said the last 2 months in my area I have noticed the change in both trails and the routes in which the planes spraying them have changed perhaps if you read what I put in my posts before you start your pre emptive strikes on my intelligence and eyesight you wouldn't make such rash mistakes in how you quote me.
www.youtube.com...
www.prisonplanet.com...
Perhaps these 2 vids may help prove my point that what I'm seeing is true.
I will say here and now you can't blind me to the truth and the undertones to some who post reply's to me should know that I read between the lines well enough to know what they are implying.


The skies have not changed in the past two months, the difference is that you read a chemtrail site and are looking, when you really did not before. You can say you did, but you didnt think about things.

How so? Well I am sure those chemtrail videos and websites you looked at, were not just made in the past two months, they were made years ago probably. Were those people psychic?

Chemtrail sites have been around since the late 90s, when Don Croft, Len Horowitz and Will Thomas realized they could start a conspiracy and sell things to people. If the skies only changed for you in the past two months, then how is it sites like Carnicom, Chemtrail Central and others existed in 2000?




posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Thinking about it, back in December we had some very cold, but dry conditions - so lots of clear blue skies but no contrails (air aloft was not humid enough). January and February have been rather dull and mostly cloudy - so little chance to see contrails. This past week or so has seen a spell of mostly dry, sunny weather with idea conditions for contrail formation. So I guess it's true: there are more contrails than 2 months ago. And it's all down to the weather


We was wrong and djcarlosa has been right all along! Sort of

edit on 14-3-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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You know its great that a subject that has become a hoax or skunk work issue still has so many members that spend so much time on this subject pack attacking those of us who can see what's going on up in the sky in case this subject becomes mainstream.
The funny thing here is that all the members who comment on this are rather educated in certain fields makes me think that why would these educated smart people Have the time and energy to sit at there pc's discrediting a subject they believe to be complete rubbish.
I myself wouldn't waste time and effort if I believe that a subject has no merit and you out there [you know who I'm talking to]seam to be kinda stupid for smart people why bother, spend your time on subjects you do believe in.
Unfortunately unlike most of the population[sheep] I still have the ability to see what is going on around me I can tell when things change and I still have the ability to question what I am told and not swallow it wholesale.
Thankfully I see many members here who are the same as me over the next year you will see that number rise and the harder you try to make us shut up the louder we will become.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
You know its great that a subject that has become a hoax or skunk work issue still has so many members that spend so much time on this subject pack attacking those of us who can see what's going on up in the sky in case this subject becomes mainstream.
The funny thing here is that all the members who comment on this are rather educated in certain fields makes me think that why would these educated smart people Have the time and energy to sit at there pc's discrediting a subject they believe to be complete rubbish.
I myself wouldn't waste time and effort if I believe that a subject has no merit and you out there [you know who I'm talking to]seam to be kinda stupid for smart people why bother, spend your time on subjects you do believe in.
Unfortunately unlike most of the population[sheep] I still have the ability to see what is going on around me I can tell when things change and I still have the ability to question what I am told and not swallow it wholesale.
Thankfully I see many members here who are the same as me over the next year you will see that number rise and the harder you try to make us shut up the louder we will become.


In other words, more trying to discredit the messenger, when one cant debate the message. And another case of fear and emotions, being more important than knowledge and facts.

The whole "look up, I know what I see" meme got tired out a long time ago. Chemmies have a long history of not having the slightest clue what they actually see, and believing anything they read on a chemtrail site.

If chemmies perceptions, fears and emotions are so trustworthy, then when will they actually start identifiying aircraft correctly, and talking with a bit of knowledge, rather than the constant fake/hoaxed pics, youtube videos and misinformation.

You can criticize us "debunkers" all you want, but we least we do not have to let youtube videos speak for us.

edit on 14-3-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
...The funny thing here is that all the members who comment on this are rather educated in certain fields makes me think that why would these educated smart people Have the time and energy to sit at there pc's discrediting a subject they believe to be complete rubbish...

My argument is pretty simple and does not take a lot of education:

1. Under certain conditions (that are by no means uncommon), normal water vapor contrails can persist for hours, and eventually spread out to become cloud cover, mainly because they are made of the same stuff that clouds are made from -- i.e., if a cloud can persist for hours, then so can a contrail.

2. There are lots of airliners up there, all potentially able to make contrails.

3. Weather conditions at altitude dictate whether or not a contrail will be produced, how contrails will look, and how long they will persist. PLUS weather conditions can change, so the weather conditions that is prevailing this time of the year that is allowing trails to persist may not have been the prevailing conditions a few months ago. In fact, conditions conducive to contrails could change daily, hourly, or even be different at various altitudes at the same time -- although they are more common during certain times of the year.

Now, I'm not saying that there is "no way possible" that contrails may actually be chemtrails, but I need to see some actual evidence beyond the idea that "it is possible". Lots of things are possible, but that doesn't mean they are common -- or even happening at all.


edit on 3/14/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


uTube vids you make me laugh I posted a vid on utube I took from my front door.
so what you are saying is that what I filmed is a fake that I'm seeing things that the difference is not apparent.
As for other sites not having the no's they once had just tells me that people who are employed by the government to make sure the subject gets buried have done there job to the letter with personnel attack's often in group's and if that don't work out right threats of we know where you live is enough to frighten most people off the subject.
this is a reality and like most things we can see with our own eyes most will not get up together and say enough is enough.
That in itself should comfort you that we know but can't or won't do anything about it.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


I have watched normal planes go over head at the same time as other jets go across the one had a regular contrail this dissipated within 2 min's where as the other stayed in the sky and after 30 min's it looked like a wave of mist stretched out across the sky as more planes went over of the spraying kind again the same effect happens.
If you watch for an hour or so you will see the clouds begin to form as these waves begin to meet and join up.
Now my point here is that if both planes are flying across the sky at the same time of day why would the 2 trails act in completely different way's after all the conditions would be the same where they crossed would they not.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by djcarlosa
 


If you climb a 2,000ft hill, is the temp and humidity at the summit the same as at the foot? It can be cold and wet on the summit, yet dry and sunny when you set off .....

Higher up in the atmosphere it's exactly the same. An aircraft at 31,000ft may leave a persistent contrail, one at 29,000ft leaves a brief one and at 27,000ft none at all. Yet from the ground they all appear to be flying at about the same altitude.

If you'd read anything at all about contrails you'd know this.

Try this: www.airspacemag.com...

Ignorance of a given subject matter is nothing to be ashamed of. We all have to learn.
edit on 14-3-2011 by Essan because: added comment



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Flight Magazine maintain an archive of pdf's of all their magazines back to 1909 - this link is to a search for "vapour trails" from 1940-1945 and catalogues the initial public reaction to seeing contrails in WW2 - there are several pages of results which, IMO, are all completely fascinating for historical reasons if nothing else
You can narrow teh search, and an alternative term to use is "visible vortices" - although this tends to link to spiral vortices from properllor tips that were occasinally visible in humd air.

But the one I want to highlight comes from 1942 - from de Havilland provides as good an explaination of why contrails form as any I've ever read. IN 1942!! And the comparison with steam train and car exhaust is also illustrative...although steam trains are not as familiar to us as they were to people in those days!

Here's another wartime publication from the US - Popular Science, March 1943, page 55 - again a perfectly clear, adequate explaination.

edit on 14-3-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: fix link



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 

I read someplace (I can't find it right now) that WWII bomber pilots wanted to know detailed weather reports so they knew which altitude to fly that may minimize (or prevent) contrails. They knew that the trails could be too easily seen by the enemy, and enemy fighters could follow the persistent trails to the bombers.

So, the pilots figured if they could find an altitude where they made less (or no) trail -- say 27,000 feet instead of 25,000 feet -- then they were more likely to make it home alive.


edit on 3/14/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by Essan
 

I read someplace (I can't find it right now) that WWII bomber pilots wanted to know detailed weather reports so they knew which altitude to fly that may minimize (or prevent) contrails. They knew that the trails could be too easily seen by the enemy, and enemy fighters could follow the persistent trails to the bombers.

So, the pilots figured if they could find an altitude where they made less (or no) trail -- say 27,000 feet instead of 25,000 feet -- then they were more likely to make it home alive.


edit on 3/14/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)


Actually that still goes on, no aircraft want to be given away by contrails, so they will pick a different altitude. The SR-71 Blackbird had a periscope to look behind and see if they were contrailing.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 

...and I assume the SR-71 would adjust its altitude to eliminate the contrail.

All of which underscores the point that two jet airliners flying at slightly different altitudes (a difference that cannot easily be discerned from a person on the ground looking at them) can be producing different contrails -- or one may have a contrail and one may not.

Heck, I've even seen planes producing an intermittent trail (they produce a trail, then don't for 30 seconds, then produce one again). This is caused by a plane flying from one portion of the sky that is conducive to contrails and into a portion that is not -- even while maintaining the same altitude.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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One of the problems with WW2 bomber streams is that they were told what altitude to fly at - forecasters may have tried to avoid contrail altitudes, but I doubt they had enough info.

For the crews there was no choice - getting hundreds of bombers together in a single formation meant everyone had to do as they were told.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by djcarlosa
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


I have watched normal planes go over head at the same time as other jets go across the one had a regular contrail this dissipated within 2 min's where as the other stayed in the sky and after 30 min's it looked like a wave of mist stretched out across the sky as more planes went over of the spraying kind again the same effect happens.
If you watch for an hour or so you will see the clouds begin to form as these waves begin to meet and join up.
Now my point here is that if both planes are flying across the sky at the same time of day why would the 2 trails act in completely different way's after all the conditions would be the same where they crossed would they not.


Hey djcarlosa don't worry about these "skunk works" people. They are always going to tell you what you're seeing is normal contrails. Their mouths and their minds are filled with propaganda and lies. They are professionals at lying and telling their long winded stories that are full of bull.

They always use half truths to make their lies more believable. Notice how they will put an old article about contrails with cartoon illustrations and everything. But that's just to distract people. It doesn't say how long the contrails would last. It doesn't show two similar planes flying at nearly the same altitude where one makes a 2 minute contrail and the other makes a "persistent contrail" that last for 12 hours.

These same people are out there on U-tube, google and other forums also leaving comments and having long arguments with other people. It is obviously part of their job. Just like you said no one who thinks this is a hoax will put the amount of time and effort into trying to prove everybody else is wrong. They are all so transparent.

They can't and don't try to argue about the existence of geo-engineering and the scientific studies with proposals to spray. It's already public knowledge that the geo-engineering community has made a plan to use aluminum aerosol spraying as one of the proposed methods. They obviously have tried and tested this technique if they are out there requesting billions of dollars to be able to do it on a mass scale.

Trust your own eyes and trust in yourself. Investigate this for yourself. These dis-info agents are just annoying insects. They're like a infestation of parasites. They are just like mosquitoes flying around in little swarms. Trying to suck the blood out of good hearted people and poisoning their blood, their bodies and their minds for their own selfish gain.

They will never convince me of their lies. They have been trying to for a long time now. But they never have. They never have proven their shallow arguments to be true and they have never proven my arguments are false. They never will convince me of their lies. They never have and they never will. The truth is out there, you and I can see it and so do many others. Go ahead and let them call us "chemmies" or whatever they want. Their numbers are getting smaller and smaller. They are running out of excuses and their lies are being exposed and uncovered daily.
edit on 14-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Actually Matty we showed that prety much everything you have ever posted is rubbish. Jsut a couple of the more obvious examples are:

- your photo of "Hazmat" in a B777 was false.

- you made up evidence linking the "HAARP Patent" to barium and aluminium when the patent dose not contain any such information.

-every time you link to a document saying that someone is carrying out climate modification it says no such thing.

If you want to keep going down this line I'm sure the links can be posted......

And in the mean time sites such as Contrail Science continue to contain factual scientific information that you never even try to argue with - all you ever do is say that it is lies, propaganda, etc.....but you never actually show why it is incorrect.

If it is so bad how come you cant' show us the errors?

Why is that Matty? Why is it that you can't show how it is that Contrail Science is incorrect in any way, shape or form?



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


You remain just as deluded as ever, I see.

You should have heard the ranting and unprofessional behavior of Michael J. Murphy, who was a phone-on guest on "ATS Live" last Saturday/(early Sunday).

[There are occasional repeats of the broadcast, available by following the appropriate links in the 'ribbon' at bottom of ATS screens].

Murphy, in partnership with G. Edward Griffin, is principal behind that appalling bad, horribly misinforming piece of filfth film "What in the World...."

On the radio show he was rude, disruptive, and spewing the SAME LIES and made-up "statistics" and "claims". All in all, a 'perfect' representative for the HOAX of "chem"-trails.

"Geoengineering" as a concept IS valid, and under discussion, there is NO doubt about that. Many competing theories and suggestions and schemes have been proposed, discussed, and examined for feasibility and potential benefit versus adverse consequences.

BUT, what exists are utterly ignorant, hysterically rabid and paranoid "believers" who scream that EVERY contrail they see is a "chem"-trail. When it is clear-cut, each time, what is NOT anything other than normal airplane contrails, from normal jets, on normal scheduled commercial routes.

Indeed, the vast DIS-info out there, coming from the likes of Murphy, Griffin, Carnicorn, et al, is total crap. Photos they claim as "proof" that are actually NOT "chem"-planes...falsified or over-stated "soil reports" that actually indicate normal levels of naturally-occurring elements...and on, and on....(YOURself included....the wave after wave of spammed YouTube videos and other sources, all that have been discredited by FACTS, but are presented in a twisted and lying manner, by their promoters. And, using disconnected tidbits of the actual proposals and future possible technologies to weave together an "already active and ongoing" fantasy is completely misleading.


In fact, from reading about certain of those "geoengineering" concepts....many of them would be entirely INVISIBLE, if implemented. Unable to be seen when viewed from the surface of the Earth.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

Aloysius, don't call me Matty and act like you know me or pretend we're friends in some way. You must not have many friends or get out much. You're having more delusional fantasies besides your usual ones. Now you're delusional ideas are about the people you interact with online. Let me make this clear to you since your thoughts are always so cloudy. We are not friends, my name is not Matty and don't refer to me as if you know me personally in some way. I don't chop up your screen name and insert different letters where ever I feel like it. That's what you do with the evidence and with other peoples posts you disagree with.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


I would jsut like to say for the record that I do not know Matty in any way other than through his posts on here, and I can't imagine why anyone might think we are friends - I think he is a plonker.

There - that should clear things up.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


You have been on here spamming away with totally off topic videos and ranting on and on spewing your dis-information all over the place. None of it based on facts or evidence. Continually making false statement after false statement. You and your fellow "persistent contrail" con-artists have not debunked one single piece of evidence. Your claim that it has been done does not make it so or true. Keep on going about spreading your same old delusions and lies making your false statements and stating your misguided opinions it still doesn't make them true.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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This was a petition to try to investigate "chemtrails"

www.thepetitionsite.com...

edit on 14-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



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