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Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:15 AM
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The subject of "chemtrails" also known as "stratospheric aerosol geo-engineering" or "persistent contrails" as some might have you believe. Has recently been the topic of some controversy here on ATS. In attempting to discuss this issue during a recent thread www.abovetopsecret.com... that was posted in the "Skunk Works" section. I encountered a small but very extreme group of members who have a very strong conviction and opposition to the idea that "chemtrails" even exist.

Many other people both here and elsewhere do not believe that they actually exist either and they simply explain them away as being a normal and natural phenomenon of the common jet contrails. They like to call them "persistent contrails" and they vigorously defend that notion with quite a bit of passion and fervor. And they also like to deem anyone of an opposing view point to be unintelligent, naive fools. Who are gullible, uninformed and/or misrepresenting the facts. Along with a long list of other derogatory terms that end with things like con artists and even dis-info agents.

Some of those among the now non-believers were convinced that "chemtrails" do not exist due to the extreme tactics and lengthy efforts of the very same group of anti "chemmies" I encountered. They try to use as many angles as they can, if not all of them, The modes of attack and methods of explanation are sometimes scientific, sometimes rational, mostly they are overly critical and emotional, as well as other methods of distraction, diversion, dissemination and out right propaganda and bully tactics. They are able to and have been convincing many people that the mere notion that "chemtrails" are real is completely, utterly and absolutely absurd, preposterous, a lie, a con and a complete hoax unequivocally, without a shadow of a doubt a false, farce, creation of a wild imagination or a drugged up, doped out mind with a simplistic view point and just an out right unaware being who is living in an unawake state of consciousness of self delusion and fantasy.

Well I am here to tell you that it is they who are the ones living in a World of self delusion and fantasy. Even though ATS has apparently had to designate the subject to be "Highly Speculative" and they decided it should be moved to the Skunk Works section. They most likely have no choice in this matter because this topic is a very controversial one, even among it's own objective participants. It is a very sensitive and highly suppressed subject. That is also a very important and very large operation being carried out on a Global scale by many nations all in cooperation and combined with scientific, political, military and financial organizations.

Apparently there is a need here on ATS and within our own communities to look deeper into this subject and to take the investigation further than has been done before. Because it has been and will continue to be suppressed until the day and time when it is actually disclosed, publicized and made known to the general public. There is also a need here on ATS to deny ignorance and to quiet and overcome the over zealous efforts of a few individuals here who want to prevent the review of or at the very least any acceptance of the facts and the evidence that has already been made known to the public and also scientifically been proven to be true. Also because those same few over zealous individuals seem to have such an overt opposition to any and all evidence from any investigation being discussed and openly examined or presented in this forum at all.

Fortunately, there seems to be no disagreement or large argument amongst those few individuals who oppose the belief that "chemtrails" actually exist. That the technology, the methods, the motives and the means to develop and carry out a project like "chemtrails" is out there and already exists. The only disagreement seems to lie in whether it actually is or has been being used or not. And also of the fact that most if not all of the persistent contrails seen by the public and are most notably being called "chemtrails" have absolutely no connection to the real technology and the probable ways that that technology would actually be being used and implemented. Even though they admittingly agree that that technology already exists. Please correct me if I have this wrong.




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:23 AM
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H
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Hi there.

I posted a thread yesterday called chemicals.....am I missing the point. Go have a read be good to get your opinions. Now I don't care if they do or don't exist but as my thread states no one has any idea what there for or what they do and I'm struggling to find a conspiracy about them at all.

Thanks
Helgas



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 

simply explain them away as being a normal and natural phenomenon of the common jet contrails.
passion and fervor. And they also like to deem anyone of an opposing view point to be unintelligent
"chemtrails" are real is completely, utterly and absolutely absurd, preposterous, a lie, a con and a
overcome the over zealous efforts of a few individuals here who want to prevent the review of or at
only disagreement seems to lie in whether it actually is or has been being used or not. And also of the

Starting to use submilinal messages I can see it your post slight differences were onto you fisfo agents



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Dude, there's a helluva lot more to be concerned about than some stupid conjecture about what turns out to be CONtrails. Sourcing another ATS thread doesn't cut it as evidence.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:04 AM
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Tell you what.....someone go take a sample out of those "chemical" tanks on the aircrafts and prove to me and the masses it's all just a misunderstanding.......



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by CIGGSofWAR
 


Subliminal ? Dis-info agent ? LOL....I will now present some of the evidence that I have seen.

First take a look at this website, this is the department that is behind the study of climate change on this planet and are involved with the use of the chemtrails. It is made up of 13 different government agencies.

globalchange.gov...

Next please review this short clip from a documentary
Full Documentary on chemtrails www.youtube.com...


edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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www.gcrio.org...

www.gcrio.org...

www.ipcc.ch...

The information found on these pages are reports from the studies done using chemtrails

www.climatescience.gov...

www.climatescience.gov...

History channel Documentary

www.youtube.com...
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Dude, there's a helluva lot more to be concerned about than some stupid conjecture about what turns out to be CONtrails. Sourcing another ATS thread doesn't cut it as evidence.


I have supplied about 20 pages of valid evidence in this thread. I am hardly sourcing from a different thread.
I'm just tired of the same dis-info agents maligning and ridiculing all the valid, credible evidence that is available. I at least would like to give some of you other dis-info agents a chance to debunk what I have found.
Go ahead and take your best shots at this video.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 06:53 AM
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How about you try and debunk this information

www.freepatentsonline.com...



Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming US Patent #5003186
A method is described for reducing atmospheric or global warming resulting from the presence of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere, i.e., from the greenhouse effect. Such gases are relatively transparent to sunshine, but absorb strongly the long-wavelength infrared radiation released by the earth. The method incudes the step of seeding the layer of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere with particles of materials characterized by wavelength-dependent emissivity. Such materials include Welsbach materials and the oxides of metals which have high emissivity (and thus low reflectivities) in the visible and 8-12 micron infrared wavelength regions.

Selective thermal radiators United States Patent # 4755673
An improved thermal radiator uses host materials having high internal reflection and scattering co-efficients for improved effectiveness. Selective thermal radiators are used for frequency conversion of incident radiation through the Welsbach effect. A Welsbach material screen is used to convert incident IR radiation into visible radiation, permitting visual observation of IR radiation and facilitating control and monitoring of IR equipment. Welsbach material is also used as a dynamic IR target which converts incident visible radiation into a high resolution IR source pattern. Welsbach material is also employed as a temperature stable material for converting solar radiation into heat.

Production of crystalline refractory metal oxides containing colloidal metal precipitates and useful as solar-effective absorbers Narayan et al. - March, 1983 - # 4376755
www.Sungevity.com/Solar-Lease This invention is a new process for producing refractory crystalline oxides having improved or unusual properties. The process comprises the steps of forming a doped-metal crystal of the oxide; exposing the doped crystal in a bomb to a reducing atmosphere at superatmospheric pressure and a temperature effecting precipitation of the dopant metal in the crystal lattice of the oxide but insufficient to effect net diffusion of the metal out of the lattice; and then cooling the crystal. Preferably, the cooling step is effected by quenching. The process forms colloidal precipitates of the metal in the oxide lattice. The process may be used, for example, to produce thermally stable black MgO crystalline bodies containing magnetic colloidal precipitates consisting of about 99% Ni. The Ni-containing bodies are solar-selective absorbers, having a room-temperature absorptivity of about 0.96 over virtually all of the solar-energy spectrum and exhibiting an absorption edge in the region of 2 μm. The process parameters can be varied to control the average size of the precipitates. The process can produce a black MgO crystalline body containing colloidal Ni precipitates, some of which have the face-centered-cubic structure and others of which have the body-centered cubic structure. The products of the process are metal-precipitate-containing refractory crystalline oxides which have improved or unique optical, mechanical, magnetic, and/or electronic properties.


Means for positioning a plurality of elements in orbit about a celestial body United States Patent # 3222675
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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You are correct. There is a group of people who bully, belittle, and name-call when acting as disinfo-agents. "It's all the normal poisons up there" is not a valid argument in disproving chemtrails. I even read a shill posting in another forum that they are trying to prevent radiation from the sun's increased activity of late. If that were so, why have they been spraying for over a decade.I do notice that more people are becoming aware, and more concerned about what these aerosol operations put in the atmosphere. Will the government be forthcoming in the future? They don't have a very good track record.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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Now that this thread has been relocated to the Skunk Works. I want to post the message I received from ATS.



It was necessary to move a thread you created titled, Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!! which was originally posted in the General Conspiracies forum, to the ATS Skunk Works forum. semperfortis has initiated this action, and included this message about it:


Please, if anyone can tell me why it was necessary to move the thread, I would love to know why.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by fredgbear
 


There is an attempt to reflect some of the suns radiation but it isn't because of the recent solar activity. It's more likely an attempt at reducing the effects of global warming in addition to capturing carbon particles found in all the green house gases.

They have been studying and developing these techniques for quite awhile now and it seems they are starting to use them a lot more often. The aerosol they most commonly use now has aluminum and barium particles along with other dangerous metal particles and polymers. There potentially could be other reasons for the use of these sprays but the scientific community seems to back the story that it is for controlling and manipulating the weather.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-engineering aka "Chemtrails" DEBUNK THIS !!!!



You've debunked it yourself: contrails (aka chemtrails) occur in the troposphere

Therefore they cannot be evidence of stratospheric geoengineering.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


And they seem to do most of it during the colder months!

Odd thing to do to stop global warming....

Why?



edit on 4/3/11 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


First of all the aerosols being used have many names. So don't try to be cute and put me into your narrow mind box

Second, the aerosols when sprayed into the stratosphere can have effects on the troposhere and vice versa

Get it ? Got it ? Good

Your debunk grade......F for FAILURE
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


Are you really gonna make this that easy?

First, most of the use so far has only been for the purposes of studying the effects of the aerosols to get a better understanding of how they can be used effectively.

Second, the effects are being calculated over a 100 year period it has nothing to do with seasonal changes in weather or temperature

Debunk grade..........F for FAILURE
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


Sounds like you know a lot about it all.

A little too much....

And no, there was no debunk attempt made by me, until someone actually goes up there and gets air samples, the whole theory is bunk, regardless of what 'evidence' you may think you have.

edit on 4/3/11 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Essan
 


First of all the aerosols being used have many names. So don't try to be cute and put me into your narrow mind box

Second, the aerosols when sprayed into the stratosphere can have effects on the troposhere. Get it ?

Your debunk grade......F for FAILURE





But whether or not aerosols are being sprayed in the stratosphere*, the things people call chemtrails are found in the troposphere. Which are you discussing here?


* given the scale and costs involved, it's unlikely this would happen whilst we're still trying to determine what, if any, effect such an operation would have. But that's not the point here.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


I would like to see where it is you saw or heard the claim that these "chemtrails" are only suspected of being in the troposphere.
Can you supply the source for your claims ?

Here are two of my sources

www.ipcc.ch...

globalchange.gov...
edit on 4-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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As a debunker, thank you for the interesting websites you have provided.
Why do you think they are about "chemtrails"?
Even the report called "Atmospheric Aerosol Properties and Climate Impact", here:
ATMOSPHERIC AEROSOL PROPERTIES AND CLIMATE IMPACT
makes only one mention of contrails and that's in a graph on page 24.
You have fallen into the "don't know how to properly interpret the word "aerosol" as used by scientists" group of "chemtrailers." Please research a bit about this.
Atmospheric aerosols are studied extensively and tracked daily. Here's a link so you can see the type and particle size.
Daily Atmospheric Aerosol Tracking Looper

The reason all debunkers sound the same and bring the same points into debate is because we are all using the same science. We have decades of studies concerning weather and contrails. And it doesn't really change much. The rules of physics, fluid dynamics, meteorology, climatology, aeronautics......all apply all the time. We don't need to change our theory focus, guess, speculate, and fear an unknown because it's not unknown. Science can and does answer any question about anything you see in the atmosphere whether anthropogenic or natural.
Debunk the science involved, don't attack the messengers by baseless claims about "disinfo agents".
Unless you can prove it.






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