reply to post by hooper
" I believe one witness thought they were down. I think there is indication from the flight data recorder. "
Was the Flight Data Recorder's Logs ever Published for the General Public to View ? If so , that should of cleared up a few misgivings the Public has
over this event , no ?
Overwhelming Evidence Pentagon Aircraft Data Is Not From An American Airlines 757, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 03:24 PM by hooper
reply to post by Zanti Misfit
Yes, again I believe they were. I think they only thing not "released" were the actual audio recordings.
This is why, in fact, the public has no misgivings about what happened on 9/11. They know that a small group of men, driven by religious hatred, hijacked four planes and crashed the planes intending to cause as much pain and suffering as humanly possible.
Yes, again I believe they were. I think they only thing not "released" were the actual audio recordings.
This is why, in fact, the public has no misgivings about what happened on 9/11. They know that a small group of men, driven by religious hatred, hijacked four planes and crashed the planes intending to cause as much pain and suffering as humanly possible.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 03:57 PM by thedman
reply to post by sprtpilot
Empire State Building - B 25 crash 1945. Video shows FDNY members at several fires. Advance to 8 minutes
for Empire State Building
www.firefighter-emt.com...
Here is another video
www.youtube.com...
Impact ripped a hole 18 by 20 feet into side of building. One of the motors from the B 25 flew completely
throught the building to punch out the other side
Why may you ask why am I showing you the Empire State Building ?
Well the exterior shell of both buildings are almost identical - consisting of cut limestone from the same quarry
backed up by masonry wall (brick)
Conside the impact forces
ESB - B25 approx weight ~20,000 lbs Pentagon Boeing 757-200 Empty 127,5000. max weight 255,000
Pentagon plane weighed in at 10 times the B25
Under 200 mph 530 mph (460 knots)
Pentagon plane hit at almost 3 times the velocity, since force increases with SQUARE, impact force is almost
9 times greater
Energy expended at Pentagon is some 80 to 90 TIMES that at Empire State
Care to dispute this?
Wonder why impact hole (actually were 2) fuselage hole at 2 floor level is some 16 ft - consistant with diameter
of a 757, lower hole at ground level is some 90 feet across - about width of wings between the engine mounts
which is the strongest part of the wing
There simply is no way a Boeing 757 is seen in that video, caused the resulting damage to the Pentagon, or left the (lack of) debris readily seen, especially outside the structure and around the "lawn".
Empire State Building - B 25 crash 1945. Video shows FDNY members at several fires. Advance to 8 minutes
for Empire State Building
www.firefighter-emt.com...
Here is another video
www.youtube.com...
Impact ripped a hole 18 by 20 feet into side of building. One of the motors from the B 25 flew completely
throught the building to punch out the other side
Why may you ask why am I showing you the Empire State Building ?
Well the exterior shell of both buildings are almost identical - consisting of cut limestone from the same quarry
backed up by masonry wall (brick)
Conside the impact forces
ESB - B25 approx weight ~20,000 lbs Pentagon Boeing 757-200 Empty 127,5000. max weight 255,000
Pentagon plane weighed in at 10 times the B25
Under 200 mph 530 mph (460 knots)
Pentagon plane hit at almost 3 times the velocity, since force increases with SQUARE, impact force is almost
9 times greater
Energy expended at Pentagon is some 80 to 90 TIMES that at Empire State
Care to dispute this?
Wonder why impact hole (actually were 2) fuselage hole at 2 floor level is some 16 ft - consistant with diameter
of a 757, lower hole at ground level is some 90 feet across - about width of wings between the engine mounts
which is the strongest part of the wing
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 04:14 PM by sprtpilot
Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by sprtpilot
There simply is no way a Boeing 757 is seen in that video, caused the resulting damage to the Pentagon, or left the (lack of) debris readily seen, especially outside the structure and around the "lawn".
Wonder why impact hole (actually were 2) fuselage hole at 2 floor level is some 16 ft - consistant with diameter
of a 757, lower hole at ground level is some 90 feet across - about width of wings between the engine mounts
which is the strongest part of the wing
Right, there is NO 90-foot-across hole or any hole or damage to the Pentagon front of any size close to what would result from a 757 impact. No disturbance along the ground either, although you have to look fast because they spread new dirt across the grounds as fast as they could- for some reason?
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 04:33 PM by thedman
reply to post by sprtpilot
Notice have not provided any evidence to back up your conspiract fantasy ?
Why not? Why did you simply parrot your earlier loony statement?
Here is picture of the impact hole
Another shot of hole left by right wing
Notice have not provided any evidence to back up your conspiract fantasy ?
Why not? Why did you simply parrot your earlier loony statement?
Here is picture of the impact hole
Another shot of hole left by right wing
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 04:44 PM by thedman
reply to post by sprtpilot
Thet didn't spread "dirt"
They did bring gravel in to supprt the heavy equipment during cleanup and recovgery to prevent it from sinking
into the ground
Maybe should do some research ......
Thet didn't spread "dirt"
They did bring gravel in to supprt the heavy equipment during cleanup and recovgery to prevent it from sinking
into the ground
Maybe should do some research ......
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 04:53 PM by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by thedman
Great pics dman, gotta love these early photos that show NO scratches on lawn or any debris from a plane, i guess that stuff just came flying out later or in some other direction.
I do not see any hole by a right wing, just blown out walls, with the supporting areas completely intact.
Great pics dman, gotta love these early photos that show NO scratches on lawn or any debris from a plane, i guess that stuff just came flying out later or in some other direction.
I do not see any hole by a right wing, just blown out walls, with the supporting areas completely intact.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 04:59 PM by Tallone
reply to post by thedman
Looking at the video you posted of the B25 impact on the Empire State building.
I can see the impact hold of presumably a wing on the left side of the hole punched in by the aircraft fuselage. Don't see anything like that at all in the photographs of the Pentagon. Now if as you say the building materials compare in both cases then you would expect the impact silhouettes to be similar. They are not. But thanks for bringing that 1945 video to the attention of the forum. Excellent support of the 'Truther' argument right there.
BTW Funny how the Empire State building remained standing after a bomber flew into it but a more modern tower such as was the Twin towers both collapsed. Funny too how firemen actually walked into the area impacted by the aircraft to put out the fires, literally dragging their hoses up the stairwells with them.
Seriously, you ought not to lay out evidence that undermines your own attack on the argument you think so inadequate.
Looking at the video you posted of the B25 impact on the Empire State building.
I can see the impact hold of presumably a wing on the left side of the hole punched in by the aircraft fuselage. Don't see anything like that at all in the photographs of the Pentagon. Now if as you say the building materials compare in both cases then you would expect the impact silhouettes to be similar. They are not. But thanks for bringing that 1945 video to the attention of the forum. Excellent support of the 'Truther' argument right there.
BTW Funny how the Empire State building remained standing after a bomber flew into it but a more modern tower such as was the Twin towers both collapsed. Funny too how firemen actually walked into the area impacted by the aircraft to put out the fires, literally dragging their hoses up the stairwells with them.
Seriously, you ought not to lay out evidence that undermines your own attack on the argument you think so inadequate.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 05:08 PM by backinblack
reply to post by thedman
If you believe that picture then you accept the plane was very very low..
Therefore where's the damage to the ground from the engine that hangs lower than the wing.??
Or why didn't the engine hit them spools we see clearly in the pic.??
If you believe that picture then you accept the plane was very very low..
Therefore where's the damage to the ground from the engine that hangs lower than the wing.??
Or why didn't the engine hit them spools we see clearly in the pic.??
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 05:16 PM by Amaterasu
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by MasterAndrew
then not demand they be released well then expect that you will never know.
Uh, they were released, we saw them. No magic tricks.
Oooo, oooo! Where are they? I have seen none of them - only what? Five frames from the number of Pentagon cameras that showed virtually nothing.
Do you have links? Gosh, I hope so. Would LOVE to finally see all of those confiscated tapes!
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 06:18 PM by hooper
Originally posted by Amaterasu
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by MasterAndrew
then not demand they be released well then expect that you will never know.
Uh, they were released, we saw them. No magic tricks.
Oooo, oooo! Where are they? I have seen none of them - only what? Five frames from the number of Pentagon cameras that showed virtually nothing.
Do you have links? Gosh, I hope so. Would LOVE to finally see all of those confiscated tapes!
Just the real ones - not the make-believe truther ones. Sorry, reality sucks.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:04 PM by Bigfoot73
reply to post by roboe
Yes, that's quite correct, it didn't. The point is it had to open in order for the hijackers to have hijacked the plane.
Doesn't matter whether it was opened or not during the other flights, they weren't hijacked, it's the last one that matters, when allegedly it was.
And regarding the cockpit door allegedly never opening. Did PfffffffT bother to mention that the same data showed that the door had NEVER been opened once on any of the previous 11 flights? Some of which included transcontinental flights.
Yes, that's quite correct, it didn't. The point is it had to open in order for the hijackers to have hijacked the plane.
Doesn't matter whether it was opened or not during the other flights, they weren't hijacked, it's the last one that matters, when allegedly it was.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:05 PM by ANOK
reply to post by ITSALLAROUNDYOU
There is a thread covering that here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In fact that is just the latest of a string of threads that ask that exact pointless question.
There is a thread covering that here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In fact that is just the latest of a string of threads that ask that exact pointless question.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:08 PM by Amaterasu
Originally posted by hooper
Originally posted by Amaterasu
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by MasterAndrew
then not demand they be released well then expect that you will never know.
Uh, they were released, we saw them. No magic tricks.
Oooo, oooo! Where are they? I have seen none of them - only what? Five frames from the number of Pentagon cameras that showed virtually nothing.
Do you have links? Gosh, I hope so. Would LOVE to finally see all of those confiscated tapes!
Just the real ones - not the make-believe truther ones. Sorry, reality sucks.
K... Where's the links?
What were there... At least five or six cameras that were raided for their content. Where are they, hoop?
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:20 PM by roboe
reply to post by Amaterasu
Not those god damn 85 videos AGAIN?!
I really ought to make a thread specifying the exact content, and petition ATS to have it stickied. After all, it seems to pop up about once a week, with someone having read about them somewhere and then decided that it must have meant ZOMGINSIDEJOBBYJOB.
So, just for you, my fellow ATS'er, here's the exact content of the 88 videos confiscated in relation to the investigation into the Pentagon attack:
replay.waybackmachine.org...://www.flight77.info/85videos.html
The link will probably break (again), so you'll have to go to www.archive.org and search for www.flight77.info yourself.
Not those god damn 85 videos AGAIN?!
I really ought to make a thread specifying the exact content, and petition ATS to have it stickied. After all, it seems to pop up about once a week, with someone having read about them somewhere and then decided that it must have meant ZOMGINSIDEJOBBYJOB.
So, just for you, my fellow ATS'er, here's the exact content of the 88 videos confiscated in relation to the investigation into the Pentagon attack:
The list of 85 videos
Five videotapes were recovered from the post-attack Pentagon crime scene and submitted to the FBI Laboratory in Quantico.
13 videos were obtained by the Defense Protective Services (DPS) - Pentagon Police - on 9/25/2001 from individual filming Pentagon site from Boundary Channel Drive. These included footage from the WTC site in the days after the attcks.
•One (1) Beta video tape - interviews in NYC
•One (1) DVCAM tape labeled "Twin Towers, World Trade Center" - NYC/WTC
•One (1) DVCAM tape - suburban setting, unknown individuals, dated 9/12-13
•One (1) DVCAM tape - NYC/WTC, 9/21-22
•One (1) DVCAM tape - NYC/WTC, 9/22-23
•One (1) DVCAM tape - NYC 9/23
•One (1) DVCAM tape - interviews in NYC; 10 seconds of Pentagon footage, but not crash site
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
•One (1) DVCAM tape - no recorded video or audio information
8 videos were received on 10/11/2001 at Quantico. These videos were collected during consent search of residence in Avanel, New Jersey. Pending case on subject.
•One (1) damaged Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
•One (1) Sony MP-120 8mm video tape
Videos received on 10/15/2001 at Quantico. These videos were collected from surveillance cameras at multiple Kinko's in South Florida.
•One (1) TDK 1-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
•One (1) SONY T-160 VHS video tape
Video received on 10/22/2001 at Quantico. This video was recovered from garbage at residenced in Neenah, Wisconsin by the Neenah Police Department. Investigation on suspect has been closed.
•One (1) damaged VHS video tape and housing
Received at Washington Field Office Command Post
These two video tapes included footage of post-crash Pentagon crime scene taken by DOD media pool photographers, and were obtained from Navy Rear Admiral Craig Quigley.
•One (1) Betacam BCT-30G video cassette, labeled "1 of 2" & "early 6pm 9/11/01"
•One (1) Betacam BCT-30G video cassette, labeled "2 of 2" & "early pm 9/11/01"
Also received at the Washington Field Office Command Post:
•One (1) VHS video cassette - witness interviews near Pentagon after the attack
•One (1) VHS video cassette, labeled "9/11/2001" - footage of post Pentagon crime scene, obtained from Chief Mastin, Prince William County
•One (1) TDK Hi8 MP 120 video casette, wrapped in Pentagon map and labeled on back "1/29/1952 Mohan Shresesa 8/2/2018 Todoroki Japan 9/17/01 3:00 hr Fern/So. Rotary" - Home video taken from car, dated 9/17/2001,showing post-crash Pentagon crime scene very briefly from road (~10 seconds)
•One (1) FujiFilm DP121 video cassette, labeled "WJLA-TV" - miscellaneous footage from news reporter, dated 9/18/2001
•One (1) Sony MP120 8mm video cassette - Home video, DC sightseeing
•One (1) TDK HG Ultimate TC-30 video cassette - Home video, unknown date, showing brief footage of Pentagon (not crash site)
•One (1) Maxell DVM60SE mini digital video cassette - Home video, dated 9/17/2001, showing brief footage of Pentagon (not crash site)
•One (1) Sony Hi8 video cassette - Home video obtained by DPS on 9/11/2001 showing ~6 seconds of Pentagon footage (not crash site)
•One (1) TDK Hi8 MP 120 video cassette - Home video obtained by DPS on 9/21/2001, showing post-crash Pentagon crime scene
•One (1) JVC MP120 8mm video cassette - Home video obtained by DPS on 9/21/2001, showing brief footage of Pentagon (not crash site)
Videos filmed on 9/26/2001 by FBI Forensic Audio-Visual Analysis Unit (FAVIAU) of post-crash Pentagon crime scene.
•One (1) original SONY 40 min. Digital Betacam video tape
•One (1) original SONY 40 min. Digital Betacam video tape
Videos submitted to FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Virginia, under cover of communication dated 2/19/2002, all depicting WTC footage.
•One (1) Betacam video tape
•One (1) HDCAM video tape
•One (1) Betacam SP video tape
•One (1) Betacam SP video tape
•One (1) Mini DV video tape maked in part Antonio M.
•One (1) DVC PRO video tape
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1056 COPY 5A of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1056 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1471 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1788 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1729 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1808 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1813 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B530 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B729 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1563 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1051 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1787 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B2406 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "1B1276 COPY 5 of 5"
•One VHS video tape marked in part "CNN RE: BURN VICTIM..."
•One VHS video tape marked in part "NIGHTLINE 2/15/2002"
Videos submitted to FBI Laboratory, Quantico, under communication dated 5/13/2002.
•One (1) Sony SDX1-25C video tape
•One (1) Sony SDX1-25C video tape
•One (1) TDK 8mm video tape
Video obtained by FBI on 9/28/2001 and submitted to FBI Laboratory, Quantico on 5/28/2002. Home video filmed on 9/11/2001 showing footage of WTC after attacks, obtained by Suffolk County, New York Police Department.
•One Hi 8mm video cassette tape from Eileen McMahon
Video obtained by FBI on 9/13/2001 and submitted to FBI Laboratory, Quantico on 5/28/2002. Home video filmed on 9/11/2001 showing footage of second plane hitting WTC and aftermath.
•One Mini DV 60 video cassette tape
Video submitted to FBI Laboratory, Quantico under cover of communication dated 9/22/2001. Obtained by FBI NK from Dime Savings Bank, Nutley, New Jersey
•One TDK T-160 VHS video tape
Home video filmed on 9/11/2001 by NBC4 Washington reporter, with footage of post-crash Pentagon crime scene shortly after attack. Provided to FBI on 9/12/2001.
•One (1) home Video of the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.
Video from DEA HQ security camera atop 700 Army Navy Drive, Arlington, VA. Camera repositioned after attack to show post-crash footage of Pentagon. Provided to FBI on 9/12/2001.
•One (1) videotape
Home video filmed on 9/11/2001 by tourist traveling past Pentagon and then by AP photographer who borrowed the camera. Footage of post-crash Pentagon crime scene shortly after attack. Provided to FBI on 9/12/2001.
•One (1) videotape
Copy of home video filmed on 9/11/2001 by AP photographer using camera borrowed from nearby motorist. Footage of post-crash Pentagon crime scene shortly after attack. Provided to FBI on 9/12/2001.
•One (1) duplicate video cassette tape dated 9/11/01
Video from cameras at Reagan National Airport parking garage. Both video files show smoke in the distance coming from direction of Pentagon. Obtained by FBI on 9/13/2001.
•One (1) CD containing 2 video files
Video from security camera at Citgo Gas Station, 801 S. Joyce Street, Arlington, Virginia. Submitted to FAVIAU to determine if video showed impact of plane into Pentagon. Determined not to show impact. Obtained by FBI on 9/11/2001.
•One (1) JVC EHG Hi-Fi videocassette, labeled Day 11 Quarters K
Video from security camera at Doubletree Hotel, 300 Army Navy Drive, Arlington, Virginia. Security video showing rotating footage from different camera locations at hotel; no camera captures impact of plane into Pentagon.
•One (1) TDK video tape marked "11C"
Images captured by two separate cameras at the entrance to the Pentagon Mall Terrace parkinng lot. Images capture the impact of the plane into the Pentagon from two different cameras. Obtained from the Pentagon Force Protection Agency via USA/EDVA.
•One (1) CD-ROM
replay.waybackmachine.org...://www.flight77.info/85videos.html
The link will probably break (again), so you'll have to go to www.archive.org and search for www.flight77.info yourself.
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:26 PM by TexasTea
reply to post by thedman
Seriously? The first one shows an explosion with no evidence whatsoever of a plane impact. In you 2nd pic you say there is a hole from the right wing. Why didn't the wing break those columns? Really?
Seriously? The first one shows an explosion with no evidence whatsoever of a plane impact. In you 2nd pic you say there is a hole from the right wing. Why didn't the wing break those columns? Really?
reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 07:36 PM by whatwasthat
reply to post by Zanti Misfit
Hello Zanti Misfit,
Gear up is the answer. The speed would be more than the gear down configuation would tolerate. Putting the gear down while manuvering to hit the target would change the trim and control feel, something making the suicide mission more complicated for a novice operator who we are told sought lessions on how to steer a large plane.
Hello Zanti Misfit,
Gear up is the answer. The speed would be more than the gear down configuation would tolerate. Putting the gear down while manuvering to hit the target would change the trim and control feel, something making the suicide mission more complicated for a novice operator who we are told sought lessions on how to steer a large plane.
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