Fallen Marine's father says anti-gay pickets will draw gunfire

Originally posted by jgbrandtner
As far as I know, if yelling "FIRE", in a crowded theater in not protected speach, then it must follow that neither is inciting a riot which is exactly what these people are doing. I'm suprised that noone has clipped them yet.

thats is because there hasnt been a riot........YET!!!

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Actually what a lot of people miss is that the WBC don't just protest known or possible homosexual service member funerals, they literally think every one in the military is a homosexual. Or I might be missing something, but that's what I got from reading their site.

And I still say we should fight back at them with psychological warfare. Go Carrie style and drench them in pig blood. I think it'd be kinda funny and might really mess with their heads. Then again...might not be a smart idea...

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot

the WBC is saying that god is punishing the USA by killing our soldiers because we allow gays to be treated like humans.

funny i didn't know god was a Muslim...guess ya learn something everyday

Originally posted by CaDreamer
the obvious solution to this is for the famlies to sue the WBC in civil court for emotional distress every jury in this country would award these families millions ....bankrupting WBC and it would be over.

Maybe I read the news article incorrectly, but I thought that this is what the grieving father did. He sued them and the court found in favour of the WBC. The father ended up having to pay $116,000 to the WBC.

In an 8-1 decision, the high court ruled Wednesday that Westboro Baptist Church has a First Amendment right to picket military funerals, no matter how "hurtful" the message may be. The decision ended Snyder's five-year court fight on behalf of his late son, Matthew, a Marine lance corporal killed in Iraq, whose funeral was picketed by Westboro church members.

Because of the ruling, Snyder will have to pay $116,000 in court costs to the Rev. Fred Phelps, the pastor of Westboro

One thing that I did notice in quoting this from the article is that it says the decision ended "snyder's five-year court fight".

This has been going on for five years? They have been picketing funerals for five years???!!!

My heart goes out to the families that the Church of Hate has protested against.
How can one be about the Love and Forgiveness of Jesus' message, but yet sow so much pain and anger?
Jesus never turned his anger or back on any human or sinner.
These people are not Christians.

How much my blood boils to introduce my fist to those protesters,
IT IS NOT WORTH VIOLENCE.

Originally posted by CaDreamer
reply to post by LordBaskettIV

 

1) the defendant must act intentionally or recklessly; (2) the defendant's conduct must be extreme and outrageous; and (3) the conduct must be the cause (4) of severe emotional distress.
well duh!!! isnt that exactly what these folks are doing to the mourning families?
arent they also infringing on their right to privacy?

No as thier actions fall under the section you left out.

The definition of outrageous is subjective, but it should be more than mere insults, indignities, threats, annoyances, or petty oppressions.

Looks like the WBC falls under all but "threats". None of it adds up to "severe emotional distress". Our curret law does not allow for regular emotional distress as a sue-able offence.

when the ladies book club carries very loudly next door and it gets late what do you do when they refuse to simmer down? do you call the cops?
there are laws that are made specifically to protect ones right to privacy and peace. theses laws limit your speech by saying yes you can say what you please but not at the moment people are sleeping...
then why not.. yes you can protest WBC but not right now people are mourning...come back in a couple of hours.

A. I would never call the cops on anyone. B. I can sleep through chainsaws and hammers, but if I was a light sleeper, I would just use ear plugs. And finally C. Live in the woods, as I do do now. I don't expect others to be decent so I avoid the potential conflict by removing myself from the situation entirely. I do not like citys(see my sig). I would even maybe try to party with the book club ladies, maybe get laid if I do my part...lol.

The Westboro Baptist Church are the most accomplished trolls in the modern world. And thats all they are, trolls. They exist to create tension and inflame issues, whether they do it for Lulz or for their own misguided doctrine. Either way, if we just ignored them they'd probably give up. Don't feed the trolls.

I am of the opinion that what Westboro does is a form of defamation. The "protests" they hold are not protests at all, they are not protesting a public disposition, these are not two sided issues, hell I'm willing to bet every funeral they have been at has been for soldiers who were not even gay. The venom they spew is irrelevant, why are they calling soldiers faggots who were not even gay? I have always been confused on this point of view.

Why is it that when the KKK wanted to hold a protest in Chicago (at the time a very large jewish community resided there) the local government denied their permit because it was obviously meant to disrupt the local peace? Instead they were forced 150 miles outside the city limits, where when their protest was held, they were met with an even larger opposition at their demonstration. You know what happened, they disbanded and cancelled the demo because they feared their own safety.

Why is the local community not banding together and teaching these lunatics a lesson, and why are the political representatives not denying their claims to protest? I would be willing to bet that if 3000 people gathered around these fools protesting a funeral and started throwing rocks, ole 5-0 would have a very difficult time arresting each individual, hell I bet they would cast rocks knowing the general population is with them. Laws are made to protect the general public, but what if the general public disobeys these laws, are they going to arrest and persecute them all? no probably not.

I have always wished these clowns tried to pull this act in my town. I would cast the first stone, the second, the third. I am aware of my liberties, I would have no problem honoring a fellow brothers death by serving some jail time, Hell I'm willing to bet I could be tried by a fellow jury and get away with everything.

When citizens fear their government and the penalties they can bestow, we as the people lose the power which WE give to those who represent us. Something is only illegal if the majority of the people believe it is detrimental to their safety, screw the minority, whatever kind of person that makes me so be it, but I'm a firm believer in majority rule, and if 99% of US citizens hate these people, put them on the blocks.

I hope they show up to this funeral, the last one they attended they were met with rocks. They screamed and cried for people to be arrested, spewed false claims that they were going to sue, but you know what happened? People still threw rocks, hit their ugly bi7ch daughter in the head.... the only shame is that she isnt 6 feet under.

If you disagree with what I believe, I support and fought for your rights at one point in time. But once you've seen war and know that man is nothing more than an animal, when you come to the realization that there is no God, that we are here despite any faith that makes you feel better, this shi7 becomes trivial. These people are going to hide behind their "deserved" freedoms, which they have done nothing to deserve. They are sheep in this society, and it takes a wolf to kill a sheep. As wolves it is our duty to protect OUR sheep, and our fellow wolves who have fallen. I'll be damned if I ever let a sheep snarl at me.

Eat these mother #3rs up my wolves, it is feeding time, and we all know good and bad sheep taste the same.
NOM NOM NOM

reply to post by LordBaskettIV


Perhaps PTSD as a diagnosis. Being someone who is burnt toast, I can see how easily I would break down mentally because of these people. If you read more about Phelps you will find he prides himself in the fact he caused his son's fiance (whom he didn't approve of) to kill herself because of his words. He danced around. After reading the entire thing I realized that nothing short of that old man passing away will stop these people. He has always been hateful. I don't know what happened to him after he lost his mother, but it must of been horrible.

The article I am referencing is an expose written after interviewing the kids who made it out of the cult.

www.blank.org...

Here are a few snippets.

"Mark Phelps feels nauseated whenever he remembers that night. He was hit
over 60 times and his brother, Nate, over 200 with a mattock handle.
Nate went into shock. Mark didn't. A boy who became a compulsive counter
to handle the stress, Mark counted every stroke. His and Nate's. While
their father screamed obscenities and his brother screamed in pain.
Every 20 strokes, their mother wiped their faces off in the tub. Nate
passed out anyway. That was Christmas Day. "

"Phelps returned that autumn to Bob Jones, but left after a year without
graduating. Later he would say he did so because the school was racist.
In 1983, the IRS revoked the tax exemption of Bob Jones, accusing it of
practicing racial discrimination. From there, Fred went north to the
Prairie Bible Institute near Calgary, Alberta. But after two semesters
he moved on.

Sources have disclosed the head of the college felt pastor Phelps might
be clinically disturbed. Compatible with that diagnosis, Fred's next
stop was Southern California. There he enrolled at John Muir College in
Pasadena."

""My father took an instant dislike to Debbie," Mark recalls. "She had
all her signals wrong: she had short hair; she was vivacious,
passionate, and fiery; she was direct; and she had an open, honest
laugh." That day, and forever after, the good pastor called her a
'whore' from the pulpit, in person, to Fred, and the family. "She
didn't argue," says Mark. "She looked shell-shocked. She started to cry,
but did it quietly. After the service, she disappeared. "After that,
he preached to Freddy she was a whore from pulpit every Sunday. "

It's a long article, but now I understand what the dynamic is and nothing can help it because it can't be helped.

Just to clear things up, the soldiers are not fighting for freedom, they are fighting for territory and oil. Our (Americas) wars are not fight to defend our democracy and all that crap, they are fought for money. There is nothing ironic about this. Men and women fight and die so fat cats can get fatter, then at there funeral, their loved ones are told that they are burning in hell.

I personally would like to say that I would be extremely violent towards any body telling me my loved one is burning in hell. Mainly because I don't believe in fairy tales (Heaven and Hell) and because of their lack of respect for another human being. That's just the way it is, freedom of speech or not.

I also would like to say people have freedom of speech no matter what some dumb law says. Do you think that westboro would stop acting like fools just because a judge hundreds of miles away says they cant do it anymore...NO!!! They would still spew the same wretched filth from there fungal stink holes that they do now.

Thank goodness these sick, sad excuses for Americans don't live by me because I would be in jail.

There must be a way to deal with these idiots without messing with freedom of speech. Under the guise of protecting these fools from us, couldn't we have them confined to a specific zone and put a cage around them? That wouldn't supress their evil howls but may be a way to keep them out of hearing range. A soundproof wall or noise suppressors would be nice if possible

reply to post by 3nlightened


If it's so trivial, why the extreme reaction? Also, why portray yourself as the wolf instead of the sheepdog or even a hunter? Why should others respect your life when you don't repect theirs?

Originally posted by cabuki
Kill em all.

Honestly, They are horrible people, they stand for everything wrong, and yea, i feel like something should be smacked into their heads. I dont care what type of person this makes me, i know what i think is right and what i think is wrong.

This to me = Wrong

I give props to the family's at those funerals for not freaking out on them yet. The fear of jail will curb alot of emotions, and they use that fear to protect themselves. There are some Ithings that people do that need to be stopped, i understand the whole freedom thing, but CMON...

If there was some cloth sitting atop your heard, I would think this is jihad

reply to post by muzzleflash


With freedom comes responsibility. The responsibility to treat your fellow man with respect. Freedom does not mean the right to spew hate at someone because of their choice of life style. If it were someone in your family, your reaction would be different. They have something to say, fine. But it should not be at the funeral. They deserve anything that happens to them.

reply to post by tncryptogal


Yah and did you know that Harvey Milk personally endorsed Jim Jones and his cult?

Originally posted by SMR


While I in no way condone violence as such, It wouldn't hurt to have a few paint ball or pepper ball guns out there for these creeps.

How can they be allowed to spew their HATE like this. If I go out and call someone a 'faggot' I would be arrested and charged for a hate crime. Yet when these guys do it, it is protected under "Freedom of Speech" ? REALLY !?

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I grew up in an area where suburban neighborhoods were right up against farmers fields. There were rumors that one farmer had a shotgun with shells loaded with rock salt to chase away kids playing in his fields. All my friends believed this story, even though no one actually claimed to have been shot at. The rumor was enough to keep many kids from playing in the fields, unless the corn was taller than the kids. Once I got a glimpse of the farmer and heard him yell, but we were instantly running so fast through the corn field that we couldn't understand what he said.

Paint balls leave evidence that can be traced. Rock salt dissolves pretty quickly. But rumors last decades!

reply to post by TexasTea


They already actually tried a city ordinance that no one could protest funerals within so many feet. They have since rescinded it, for what reason I am not certain.

Originally posted by tncryptogal
reply to post by LordBaskettIV

 

It's a long article, but now I understand what the dynamic is and nothing can help it because it can't be helped.

Thanks for posting this article.

Interesting that this family consists of so many lawyers, department of corrections employees, sheriff's department employees, juvenile corrections employees.

Reverend Fred Phelps: lawyer and Baptist minister; head of the Westboro
Baptist Church; 64 years old. Disbarred.

Marge Phelps: wife of Fred; mother of his 13 children; 68 years old.
WBC member.

1. Fred Phelps, Jr.: lawyer and employee at the Kansas Department of
Corrections; 40 years old. Oldest son. WBC member.

Betty Phelps (Schurle): wife of Fred, Jr.; lawyer and owner-operator of
a day-care home; 41 years old. WBC member.

2. ***Mark Phelps: businessman in Southern California; estranged from
the family cult; 39 years old. 2nd son.

Luava Phelps (Sundgren): wife of Mark; childhood sweetheart; 36 years
old.

3. ***Katherine Phelps: lawyer; suspended from the bar; living on
welfare; 38 years-old; oldest daughter. Not in WBC.

4. Margie Phelps: lawyer and employee of the Kansas Department of
Corrections; 37 years old; 2nd daughter. WBC member.

5. Shirley Phelps-Roper: lawyer at Phelps Chartered; 36 years old; 3rd
daughter. WBC member.

Brent Roper: husband of Shirley; lawyer and businessman in Topeka; 30
years old; WBC member.

6. ***Nate Phelps: businessman in Southern California; estranged from
family cult; 35 years old. 3rd son.

7. Jonathon Phelps: lawyer; 4th son; 34 years old; WBC member.

Paulette Phelps (Ossiander): wife of Jonathon; 33 years old; high school
graduate; WBC member.

8. Rebekah Phelps-Davis: lawyer at Phelps Chartered; 32 years old; 4th
daughter; WBC member.

Chris Davis: husband to Rebekah; 38 years old; raised from childhood in
the WBC.

9. Elizabeth Phelps: lawyer at Phelps Chartered; night house manager
staff at Sheltered Living, Inc. Topeka; 31 years old; 5th daughter; WBC
member. Former counsel for the Shawnee County Sheriff's Department.

10. Timothy Phelps: lawyer and employee of the Shawnee County
Department of Corrections; 30 years old; 5th son; WBC member.

Lee Ann Phelps (Brown): wife of Timothy; lawyer and employee of Shawnee
County Sheriff's Department; 27 years old; WBC member.

11.***Dorotha Bird (Phelps): lawyer practicing independently in Topeka;
6th daughter; not a WBC member; changed her last name to avoid family's
notoriety. 29 years old.

12. Rachel Phelps: lawyer at Phelps Chartered; YMCA fitness instructor;
28 years old; 7th daughter; WBC member.

13. Abigail Phelps: lawyer and employee at SRS-Youth and Adult
Services, Juvenile Offender Program; 25 years old; 8th daughter; WBC
member.

And this pretty much sums up his agenda. He simply thinks he is a prophet of a God. And the strong emotional reactions, along with the media coverage, is exactly what he wanted.

"If you're preaching the truth of God, people are going to hate you," he
grins. "Nobody has the right to think he's preaching the truth of God
unless people hate him for it. All the prophets were treated that way."

And this is just crazy...

The Westboro congregation pickets public officials, private businesses,
and other churches, many of whom have had only tenuous connection to
some form of anti-Phelps criticism. Until a city ordinance was passed
against it, the Westboro warriors even picketed their opponents' homes.

For the last two years, this tiny group, by virtue of their tactics,
dedication, and discipline, have held the Kansas capital hostage. Fred
Phelps has been able to intimidate most of the residents of Topeka into
a fearful silence, though he himself is a shrill and vigorous defender
of his own First Amendment rights.

Those who would disagree with his
brutal remedies to his perception of social ills face a three-fold
attack:
Lawsuits: If the rest of America has justly come to fear the
anonymous lone nut with a gun, it has yet to experience a community of
eccentrics stockpiling law degrees.
Picketing: One prominent restaurant in Topeka is now failing after being picketed daily for
almost a year. "Patrons just got tired of the harassment," sighs the
owner. The cause of the pickets? One of the restaurant's employees is a
lesbian.

I think I might be done with this thread. I am not giving Fred Phelps anymore of my time today.

reply to post by tncryptogal


Your post alone shows that this guy could be legaly locked up according to his own kids testimony. Look I don't believe in what this dude says, but if I call for his death then I have admitted defeat, that some old fundie bible thumper has outsmarted myself and all of america. Is he so POWERFUL our only option is to empty his brain pan?


Yes, PTSD is real, my best friend has it after several tours in Iraq... so in a way...I understand where you are coming from, I talk with my friend constantly. Talking helps, not right away...but after awhile. You have every right to feel how you do.




(not directed at any one person)
I repectfully bow out the thread. You want to kill some old A-hole guy, go ahead. I doubt it will change anything. Why this tyrant, and not the ones who really oppress us financialy and at gun point. We can't hurt them, so beat on an old man in thier place.....I don't know anymore.

reply to post by CaDreamer


hahaha if pictures of murders would be illegal, then so would movies of murders, and then Hollywood would be in so much trouble