Bradley Manning could face death: For what?

reply to post by edog11


Wow, that was a really nice, long, and meaningful post . . . but . . . alas . . . what the HELL does this have to do with the damned traitor!?! He divulged CLASSIFIED material that he dug for. He DIVULGED this information to individuals outside of the government that he had swore to PROTECT and serve; this includes the American people and their interests. He had proper channels to divulge this information to for proper review and punishment. He released all manner of data that was in no way related to supposed war crimes. He is a traitor, he is a traitor, he is a traitor. Look up what happens to traitors when they are convicted of being so . . . it can include . . . capital punishment.

Now as far as the incident you speak of . . . possibly and likely, very unfortunate and terrible casualties of war. Have you seen combat by any chance? Do you realize the stress this can put on a human being? Seeing your buddies being shot at and dying and not knowing where the next shot will come from. Sometimes bad things happen. If one of these bad things was found to be by deliberate action then those individuals involved should be investigated and punished if what happened was beyond the scope of reasonable warfare, if there is such a thing, but not punished for simply being made to look that way by known enemies of the West.

Anyhow, Manning is guilty as hell and deserves FULLY what he gets.

reply to post by backinblack


I already know the philosophy you come from, little point in even discussing things with you as you will always hate America, Americans, and all we stand for.

Bye, bye

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by Travlla
Some country's such as Australia have laws against "receiving stolen goods" goods in this instance are the data Manning allegedly stole,Julian to pale to be Aussie Assange and wikileaks have made $$$$ (donations) from said stolen goods,so one could possibly say they are also guilty of "selling stolen goods ",a long stretch perhaps i will admit that,Now i know everyone one has a woody over Jules and wikifreaks but what sensitive military info have they received (if any),that may put American (or any coalition country's) military members at risk? Have they sold it to the enemy ? probably not,but how many have seen this stolen info and can they all be trusted to keep their mouths shut ?

How are you to determine why someone donates to wikileaks? Are you saying that none of the other leaks before this release matter?

I was replying to someone who said Jules and wiki could not face treason charges because they hadn't signed confidentiality forms,that is true,i was putting forward,
the suggestion that they could be charged with other things,Do i think that will happen? highly unlikely,How to determine someone why some donated ? Document released (a manning supplied one) on X date,paypal supplies data of donation spike (if any) after X date,as i said i do not believe this will happen ,pie in the sky stuff from where i sit,

The death penalty is obviously ridiculous in this case. But PFC Manning does deserve to be brought up on charges.

The simple fact is, while 100% government disclosure of all activities would be great, this is not a perfect world. The individuals on here who are saying that the US Government should disclose all activities including top secret material are at best idiotic and at worst delusional. Releasing highly classified documents can and would put millions of lives in danger, from citizens to military. Some level of government secrecy is required for a government to protect and provide for the citizenry. While I don't care for the "Big Brother" mentality that seems to be taking over, PFC Manning could have put thousands of lives in danger, and there is no way that he could be considered an "international hero".

With that being said, there's no way this deserves the death penalty, nor a life sentence. But he deserves to do hard time for putting lives in danger.

The guy committed treason. End of story. He allowed not just Average American Joe the chance to see things that is kept within secrecy for a reason, but he allowed our enemy to be able to access that information too. That, I can't agree with. And I think someone asked who the enemy is, let me try to spell it out for you. The people that shoot at us(service members) with intent to kill are the enemy. I didn't really care then why I was fighting them because it was my job, and I'd rather do what I was told than go to the brig and become bubba's bi-, well, you get my drift I hope. Whatever, let the guy hang. He knew the risks when he made the choice to do something so foolish.

And I'm sorry to say, but quite of few of you...I think you should sit down for this. In my non-expert medical opinion, you've been diagnosed with acute fatuousness. But lo and behold there is a treatment! Step 1: Turn off your computer. Step 2: Walk to the nearest brick wall. Step 3: Repeatedly slam head into said wall until unconsciousness. Hopefully when you wake, you'll be in a better state of mind.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
My question is why did he let himself get caught? I mean seriously, he is involved in information security he knows how not to get caught, why did he do it. That really pisses me off. He coulda got away scot free.

I dunno. Maybe because Manning is clownshoes? That would be my first (and probably very accurate) guess in the matter.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
He exposed the US military helicopter gun-ship murder of innocent civilians, and for that the US military will have it's revenge.

Yeah, innocent civilians with RPGs and AKs.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
You know who else was engaged in illegal activity and a traitor to their country? George Washington. Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, the entire continental congress, every member of the colonial army. Had Washington lost the revolutionary war, England would have hanged him for the traitor he was.

Comparing Manning to Washington, Adams and Franklin? Spare me.

reply to post by edog11

One could argue that he violated the anti-espionage laws and the penalty for treason can be the death penalty.

reply to post by laslidealist


So you're telling me that if I am a Russian investor in an American company, and then all the sudden our two countries go to war, I am going to be held for treason? Absolutely not!!!

If there were never any traitors then there would never be revolution or change.
Doesn't everyone who seeks to change the present situation of any nation called a traitor?? seems they are against the status quo?
If people are doing wrong then they need to be stopped REGARDLESS OF WHAT COUNTRY THEY ARE TOLD TO PROTECT
RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG and just because you are in a war does not give any gov't the right to abuse human rights.
Very cool way of thinking - if they see evil, ignore it and if you dare speak on behalf of what is right and wrong then take your punishment and how dare you DO THE RIGHT THING.
If i am in the army and my buds kill and rape i am to shut my mouth because hey it wasn't my wife or daughter or sister and to hell with everyone else. What a world to live in and with thoughts like this there is no hope for mankind to ever have compassion for another human outside the immediate self serving attitude.
Casualties of war - ever see the movie??
So i guess you call him a traitor- no??
If your country was invaded and people killed and raped your family and there was someone on the other side that wanted to help according to you then he should shut his mouth and let your family die in vein
Interesting concept seems present day Americans never faced invasion on American soil and could never understand but prefer to sit high atop looking down saying what is right and wrong while never wanting for food or water or shelter (that is everyone on this site because the world knows that as the richest country in the world it does have more than their share of poverty and homeless- oh wait that must be another country other than the USA because they would never treat their own kind like that being the richest and most powerful nation and sacrificing their own citizens and destroying their families all in the name of human rights)
Absolutely disgusting behavior to allow evil to exist just because you are on the winning side and afraid you just might one day have your ivory tower come crashing down from doing the right thing.
So what you are saying is if someone sees wrong do nothing because you are on the side of the wrong doing.
If i am in the army and my buds kill and rape i am to shut my mouth because hey it wasn't my wife or daughter or sister and to hell with everyone else. What a world to live in and with thoughts like this there is no hope for mankind to ever have compassion for another human outside the immediate self serving attitude.
With that logic then everyone of our forefathers IS A TRAITOR
Wasn't the very country that started this whole mess built on the backs of traitors yet you say this should not be so and with that logic then you should give your country back to England.
All Americans are traitors to England
Was the guy who told about the USS LIBERTY attack a traitor??
Oh wait it only counts if people say things AGAINST the USA, sorry wrong on that one
Look forward to seeing all those that are self serving on the other side with nobody to protect them when wrong and harm comes their way

reply to post by laslidealist


Wow, the evidence you present is all well said and meaningful . . . really. This does not make Manning the savior that you make him out to be though in any way. He is NOTHING like the founding fathers and I cannot even believe that you compared him to them. This guy had channels to go to that were domestic. He did not have the right to determine what was classified or not and what should be possibly leaked to all the world. You are being tricky in presenting your argument by mixing it with so many other emotionally appealing warrants that you mislead from the true question at hand, which is: " . . . Manning could face death: For what?" Well, the answer to that remains the same regardless of your long and encompassing post. Manning is NOT the messiah . . . he is a simple traitor that deserves what he gets!

Oh . . . people should do the right thing but not become a traitor to do it; he had proper channels available to him if he was really that concerned about humanity.

reply to post by nonnez


Are you seriously suggesting that he should've used 'proper channels' to leak the info? Those were channels that are proven criminal and corrupt. What was he supposed to say? "Hey here's some data I found that proves you guys are are corrupt. Do you want to investigate yourselves?"

reply to post by PsykoOps


Are you saying that EVERY single American is corrupt, especially within the government. I think not, there are good as well as bad officers, representatives, judges, etc. He didn't have to give this information out to foreign parties especially when he did not truly consider the people that would be hurt as a result of this. Remember, we are not talking 1 or 2 incidents, secrets, information, whatever . . . we are potentially talking thousands.

This is getting really boring saying this over and over when I know that you Manning worshipers will never see him as anything different than a true hero that he most definitively is not.

After reading a lot of posts from people who keep repeating "Manning is a traitor" and "He put lives in danger" I can't help but wonder if you people even know what the information is that Wikileaks released and continues to release.
They have so far not released any tactical information that puts innocent lives in direct danger, that Faux-news line that most of you keep repeating has no value.
What they did release were files showing how extremely over-the top corrupt some governments, especially the US government are and how THEY are actually the traitors to the people.

To the person who said that Manning swore an oath to protect the government, no that's not true.
He swore an oath to protect his country and countrymen, he is not and should never be only loyal to the government and by releasing those files, he did EXACTLY that. He protected his country from enemies foreign and domestic.

He is the hero that we make him out to be. The people who plunged the USA into war for their own selfish desires are the traitors. The people who are manipulating world leaders to create more unrest and instability do prolong the period of their domination are the real traitors.
THOSE people are the ones that have in fact now killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocents and are continuing to breed hatred towards the USA by their actions. They are the enemies and traitors of the USA and you should be grateful to Manning that he had the balls to sacrifice himself to bring this to light so that you (The ones who don't have their heads up their ass and actually have a pair) can demand reforms.

When the higher-ups in the government ARE the ones who are corrupt and most of them are, you can't go to "Proper channels" since it will finally lead back to them and you'd be screwed. If a system is created so that the corrupt are in charge of the ones investigating corruption, proper channels have no meaning.
I's pretty hard to walk up to an FBI officer and give him a few documents proving that the FBI&CIA top staff including directors are all corrupt with signs pointing to corruption even at a higher level in multiple branches of the government.

Have some of you even read half of the Wikileaks releases? Do you have any idea how severely the corrupt elements of the US Government is f*cking you all up the pooper? Is there a reason why most Europeans are better educated on the USA and corruption within your government than most Americans? Of course they are going to do everything they can to maximize his sentence. He was after all the one that proved to us that they are corrupt.

Let me ask something.
While we are debating if Manning should die or be treated as a hero, what has happened to the people who have been proven corrupt and traitors/war-criminals etc by the Wikileaks files? Why aren't they being charged with at least treason? We are getting a little tired of your aggressiveness America. Please fix your # and properly address the corruption in your ranks.

Much love,
The rest of the world


IT--

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by backinblack

 

I already know the philosophy you come from, little point in even discussing things with you as you will always hate America, Americans, and all we stand for.

Bye, bye

What is it then that all you americans stand for?


2nd line

reply to post by nonnez

I heard he gave Osama's whereabouts at some ranch in Texas
i do not make him out to be a hero but a real man that deserves to be heard and in public unlike all those that talk, talk, talk and spew garbage and want so desperately to fill an insatiable ego.
please research history
DIDN'T GENERAL SMEDLEY BUTLER (5 star general) DO EXACTLY AS YOU SAY TO DO???
1934 COUP THAT TOOK OVER THE USA BY THE ROCKEFELLER S, MORGANS, CHASES, ROTHCHILDS,ETC. THIS IS FACT!!!!
THIS MY FRIEND IS TREASON IN THE HIGHEST YET THEY RUN THE USA AND THE WORLD.
THESE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WENT TO TRIAL AND WENT COMPLETELY FREE AND NOW CONTROL THE WORLD.
CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME THE OUTCOME, TY
YES I SEE HOW WELL WHAT YOU SUGGESTS WORKS
AND YES EVERY POLITICIAN SELLS THEIR SOUL JUST TO GET IN OFFICE.
I USE TO BLEED RED WHITE AND BLUE AND PUFFED MY CHEST OUT SAYING THE USA IS THE BEST AND HERE TO DO GOOD THAT IS UNTIL I WOKE UP AND FACED THE TRUTH
A VERY FEW PEOPLE CAN HANDLE TRUTH AND REALITY WITHOUT LOSING IT.

reply to post by nonnez


So none of those thousands of people who had access to these cables reported this before? Either they did and they were locked up in a dungeon or they didn't and they all were accomplices. There goes your theory of 'proper channels' down the drain.

America, I truly respect you as a people but your government is truly dispicable.

If the death sentence is given then I hope you unite in mass protests on a scale so large that there would be no choice but to reverse the decision. If you don't and this man dies you all have this man's death on your conscience.

reply to post by edog11


Easy, Treason.

reply to post by edog11


Oh wow! And now you speak for the rest of the world! I suppose that the way you and the rest see things, we should all have access to ANY information within ALL government filing cabinets, computers and the like? That the average Joe-private should have it in their power to decide what should be divulged to EVERYONE in the world. Without reading all your posts in this thread and elsewhere to see where you come from so-to-speak, I am guessing that you are not an America/American lover and that you would love to see all that America stands for crash to the ground. That being said . . . NOTHING . . . you have said brings anything new to this argument we are having as I am sure you feel of what I write. So, you go on worshiping Manning, Assange, and most likely anarchy and I will go on believing that they and all they stand for are wrong and deserving of punishment just as those individuals who deliberately commit atrocities.