I've been watching planes lately

reply to post by gemineye

From what you can tell, would you agree that the majority of these are commercial passenger jets?

Yes. I can even make educated guesses at the make/models.

Have to ask: When you were shooting the pictures, did you have the ability to simultaneously go online, and identify the airplanes using Flight Aware? (I still think it's the better "live" tracker to use, of the choices. As I recall, you are in the USA?).

Not sure if I mentioned this to you already, but I was killing time, using FlightAware, and listening to the ATC feed as well. Found that the ATC, while very "real time", the FlightAware had a several minute lag. Which is not surprising, since it compiles the information from many sources, and has to then go through processors in order to display on the website.

Something to keep in mind when using it to identify those airliners.....

Originally posted by Stewie
Okay, I get it.
Scientists can't be trusted. Well, where does that leave you?

One's own senses, an open mind, and a skeptical attitude.

Plus the realization that one will never have all the answers, however frustrating that notion may seem at first. Once internalized, it ceases to be frustrating and becomes liberating.

Originally posted by ParkerCramer
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I am following your reasoning, but, the 2 photos you've injected were set up to fool the observer.........

One certainly was, teh otehr I don't know about but I dont' think youcould set up the stork - that was pure luck!

Are you suggesting the OP did this?? I don't believe you are, so, what are the chances that the OP was in the exact right spot, at the exact right time to catch this as an anomoly???????????

If an aircraft goes overhead there I reckon there is almost a certainty that there will be a range of angles from which it will appear along the lines that it did.

Can you at least view this as not typical, and yes it does appear to be coming from the tail??

View what as not typical? the photo? Not at all - it seems perfectly typical.

Here's a page of photos of 2-engined airliners taken with a 10" telescope, many of which have contrails starting pertty much at the tail - if these were taken with lower resolution then I believe they would look exactly as if they were doing so - it is only the high resolution that tells you they are not.

So what are teh chances? I'd say they are quite high.

Yes it looks like the contrails are coming from the tail, and as far as I am concerned that is due to perspective - and is common with ground based photos of aircraft.

In answer to the OP bout whether they look like commercial a/c or airliners - yes they do to me - I make it 4 with wing mounted engines (B737, 767, 777, A300, 320, 330, etc) and 4 with tail mounted - probably DC-9's or B717's unless there are old Tupolev's, Caravelles, BAC-1-11's etc operating those routes??

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Well, the doctor can be really kind and cordial when he gives you a shot in the arm that he knows will kill you.
Money has a tendency to do that to people. Money buys and resells a false reality, and many here on ATS are just too eager to be consumers.
I tend to get a bit emotional at times, but this is ATS, not a board meeting. This is a place where we should be able to call them like we see them. I do it, and I get put into a corner every now and then.
But, thanks for the effort to find the truth.

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Sure - but clouds forming from contrails is normal

That is your opinion, and I respect it, but I also disagree. I know they can/do make cloud(ish) formations, but I and many others will stand behind the idea that they have never taken hours upon hours, AND left the sky covered so that the sun can't be seen. I live atop a mountain, and for 8 years, just like the OP's pics, I have watched these things ALL DAY, and so I disagree friend.

Um.....not to put too fine a point on it....but it seems to me that your post says that they do make clouds and that you have seen them do so for 8 years - so where's the disagreement??!!

Have to ask: When you were shooting the pictures, did you have the ability to simultaneously go online, and identify the airplanes using Flight Aware? (I still think it's the better "live" tracker to use, of the choices. As I recall, you are in the USA?).

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes, I had the ability, but no, I didn't do it. I was taking pics of flowers and birds and what have you as well, and took pics of the planes as I saw them. I do want to start tracking them though and if at all possible, keeping a log. Even if I prove nothing, even to myself, it's still something that I like to do. I miss the airline business.

And yes, I'm in the USA. Kentucky to be exact. I'm about an hour or so south of LEX.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

is a business that does not operate in secret,

Says who? Are you telling me there are business practices and chemicals used that are fully disclosed and safety is never compromised? Ever heard of Trade Secrets, and the right not to disclose ingrediants? Ask Haliburton about that.Here
So if you think everything is disclosed and altruistic when it comes to business, especially BIG business, then so be it.

but if you insist upon saying that it is all teh fault of some global conspiracy you're not going to get anywhere

I did not insinuate a global consp, more of a corporate conspiracy if anything, thanks.

Um.....not to put too fine a point on it....but it seems to me that your post says that they do make clouds and that you have seen them do so for 8 years - so where's the disagreement??!!

Um, I don't mind a fine point, let me clarify, I have watched clouds form directly out of contrails from planes, AS OPPOSED to natural cirrus cloud formation, which I have observed too up here.

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

is a business that does not operate in secret,

Says who? Are you telling me there are business practices and chemicals used that are fully disclosed and safety is never compromised? Ever heard of Trade Secrets, and the right not to disclose ingrediants?

that's not what I said - it does not operate in secret - it operates a weather modification service, and as far as I know it does not use airlienrs nor military aircraft.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Whether Helliburton has secrets of not is irrelevant - if WM Inc has secrets then how do you think they relate to commercial airliners making contrails, and what is the evidence for that?

but if you insist upon saying that it is all teh fault of some global conspiracy you're not going to get anywhere

I did not insinuate a global consp, more of a corporate conspiracy if anything, thanks.

Fair enough......I wasn't trying to say that you actually did say it - sorry if you took that....it was more by way of warning that starting down teh chemtrail path simply isn't required and would probably be counter productive to any organised attempt to lobby for reduction in contrails.

All corporations are conspiracies to achiee their profits - collaborative efforts to make money. Is WM significantly different in the way it operates from others?

Um.....not to put too fine a point on it....but it seems to me that your post says that they do make clouds and that you have seen them do so for 8 years - so where's the disagreement??!!

Um, I don't mind a fine point, let me clarify, I have watched clouds form directly out of contrails from planes, AS OPPOSED to natural cirrus cloud formation, which I have observed too up here.

Yep - the formation of clouds directly from contrails is exactly what I meant - contrails provide ice crystals for supersaturated air to condense onto and that forms cirrus clouds "on" the contrails.

reply to post by gemineye


That's right, I remember now....you mentioned, in another thread, that you were an F/A previously.

Of all people, you should know better RE: "chem"-trails!!! Didn't you make friends with any pilots, to discuss this with? We do kinda know what we're talking about....(although I know a lot of my colleagues like t be practical jokers, too....jack-rods, they can be....)...I never got into that.

(You know the overhead map lights, on older Boeings? IF you flew the 727 or 737....the ones that are removable? Well....if they are dimmed down, and you have an innocent "newbie" peer into the lens....this is looking directly at the light bulb, but through the convex lens....you can tell him/her ahead of time that it's a mini telescope, and that they are looking at the full Moon!! Yeah, juvenile, isn't it?? Saw it happen many times, felt sorry for the guy trying to pull the prank, though....).

Like these, in the 727. Up in the "eyebrow" windows, over the pilots' heads....just forward of the overhead speakers. Those are rather newer looking, older ones were all black:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1792494bad8c.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by gemineye


hey gemineye
I'm with you on the fence. (stop shacking the fence!)

I have read about Chem/Con trails, and so far I don't know. I see this everyday. I am going to start getting more photos, everyone should, we all have some kind of camera. I see as many as five planes in my view sometimes, They all seem to be at or near the same altitude, and some are leaving trails clear across the sky and expanding to be clouds, and some have short standard looking trails, I even saw one without any. Not including the military planes or local flights. It's the high altitude passenger liners. I don't know about planes so I can't ID them.

I notice when I stand there and look up at the sky for a few minutes others around me look also and they figure out what I am looking at without even asking. I get comments like, "That is some major pollution there" or "those make strange clouds now-a-days". I heard that last one today. I'm going to keep looking up.

I was one of those who did notice no planes flying after 9/11. It was eerie. Nobody around me even noticed the change. Zombie much? gees I could see & feel it, all that metal transversing the globe might be creating a kind of Faraday cage, of a sort. That might be what the, aluminum dioxide content is about, extending the cage. I don't know.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8579482a538c.jpg[/atsimg]

I did read that more people die from plane exhaust than from plane crashes. Source.Source

growing into clouds man, if there is manmade weather change this has got to be doing it.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/28df8f30e905.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4db3167dbd14.jpg[/atsimg]

Of all people, you should know better RE: "chem"-trails!!! Didn't you make friends with any pilots, to discuss this with? We do kinda know what we're talking about....(although I know a lot of my colleagues like t be practical jokers, too....jack-rods, they can be....)...I never got into that.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yep, had plenty pilots friends... still friends with a few of them, but back in the day, I had never even heard of chemtrails and when I first did, I thought it was completely ludicrous. My sister told me about them and I actually laughed at her. And then I found ATS. *grin* I suspect that if there is any chemtrailing going on at all, it's probably the military that is doing it and not passenger jets, but that's just pure speculation, because I honestly have no damn clue. I almost wish I had never even entertained the idea because it was so much easier when I didn't believe, lol. But I'm always searching for the truth and I'm one of those people that can't stand to just be undecided about something.

I worked the Embraer 135's so I guess I couldn't have pulled the telescope prank on anyone, but if I'm ever flying on a 727 or 737, I'd love to try it on some unsuspecting passenger... especially if it was a friend that had never flown before. That would be great, hehe.

I have to ask, and this is off topic, but this guy seems to be a legend. Ever heard of an old captain called "three cups?" he he.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Ahh the ambiguity of prose.... We're making progress though, even if it is to agree to disagree
I was putting forth the idea of the WT industry crossing over to a larger scale operation, for bigger money, by contracting out to commercial and military outfits. That is speculation on my part, which is why I put "hypothesis" at the beginning of my original statement. The Halihurton reference was to support the bypassing or circumventing regulations, like some companies have and do.
So why the secrecy then? I am guessing because if they ever validated that we need to start worrying about climate catastrophe, panic may arise, or people might object to the remedy of spraying the skies for our protection.

One more time on my cloud observation,, I have watched clouds form from contrails that outlasted any natural forming clouds that occur, as in slowly building up or drifting in. I acknowledge cloud formations can be generated both ways, and I have seen the difference.

spec

reply to post by miconATSrender


Those are great pics! The fence is a sucky place to be, huh? lol.

Ya know, I remember seeing contrails on 9/11, after the planes were supposed to be grounded. I remember thinking "maybe it's military" but I don't know. It was odd and freaked me out. That day was insane all together though. Nobody knew what to think about ANYTHING. I remember sitting outside with my sister, a few nights later and watching for planes. We got scared when we didn't see any for a long time because we thought something else had happened and the planes had been grounded again. They eventually came along though.

ok here's what i don't understand.
If there is clouds in the sky would that not mean that conditions are right for the formation of both CONTRAILS ands clouds. People seem to look at it backwards in my opinion, the clouds didn't form because of a chemtrail the contrail formed along with the clouds because the atmospheric conditions were just right causing the water molecules to freeze or whatever happens. Whether or not a jet flew by clouds still would have formed like they do every other day, but because a jet has flown through the area where clouds are now forming the jet trail follows them same traits as a cloud, lingering, floating and slowly dispersing

And yes we all know weather modification is real, it's been discussed and no one is denying it.

reply to post by miconATSrender


wow! great shots if people think these are nothing and just contrails then let them pipe up so i know to avoid all contact with them..u would have to be clueless to think that those are contrails.

reply to post by gmac10001


you obviously know nothing about cloud formation, the atmosphere, planes, exhaust, or contrails

good try though, now go back to watching the sky i'm sure you'll gain all the knowledge in the world just by looking upwards

reply to post by gemineye

I worked the Embraer 135's....

Oh, the RJs....Chautauqua, Trans State, etc.....one of the feeders for the majors.

Only been on the jumpseats, to commute back and forth. They don't have those kinds of floodlights....only older Boeings. Made by a company called "Grimes". (They moved them, on the newer 737-300s and their derivatives, down to the sidewall....so the telescope trick doesn't make sense, on those....).

reply to post by weedwhacker


ExpressJet, when they were operating their branded branch, when it was commercial... or ghettojet, as we liked to call it, hehe. I did the branded side... never did do the Continental Express side. The ExJet side is all chartered now. Was going to interview for Continental mainline, but got out of the biz because it was turning me into a tired old woman, even though I was barely 31 at the time, lol. I may go back to it one of these days though.

After 14 years of Chemtrails in San Francisco I moved to British Columbia and found the same spraying, It was apparent as soon as the sky opened up with some sun. They would be creating parallel patterns and then patterns perpendicular to the original grid pattern.
Canada - same thing.

I am in Mexico now for couple of weeks- NO CHEM TRAILS!
the planes are going back and forth across the sky but NOthing.
I guess it is just U.S. and Canada.

I wonder if it is a binary weapon and they would inject or spread with the rest of kill us, make us not become enlighten or enslave our brain. Either way, it can't be good. Get out of the spray areas.

I want to start off by saying thank you for taking the time to take pictures and make this thread.

Your pictures look exactly like what I saw in my yard today. No kidding.

I live in a rural area in the SE U.S., I had to run errands and the sky was blue as can be. Dopplar radar showed clear skies when I checked it over breakfast. I noticed many planes were flying, the passenger type, and all seemed to be heading in one direction. Each plane was leaving light grayish trails behind them that extended for what seemed to be miles on end. Later on in the day, I went out to do yard work. Again, more planes leaving miles of light grayish trails behind them. Now the old trails from previous planes were starting to merge together and forming sheets of hazy light grayish smog-stuff which extened for miles. Checked the dopplar radar for any evidence of storm and nothing. Clear as ever. So then, later on in the afternoon, still day light but close to dusk, I had to head out and run another errand taking me into town. The sky at this time appeared to have a shell of hazey smog over it. It looked ugly. Flat out ugly. These were not God-given clouds, this was in no way natural. Totally human induced; I sense it in the pit of my stomach. I had never really thought about it much before, but today it finally hit me...all the miles and miles of contrails with the heavy plane traffic all day long left a haze over the entire sky as far as one could see and what I was seeing was/is pollution - straight up. The way I figure, just as cars pollute the highway, so are these planes farting out gases right over our heads. Reminds me of the smog you can see in Los Angeles.

So. Cars have smog check certifications to reduce emission. Great. Seems the planes need to have them too, at a certain altitude.

"Researchers from MIT and the University of Cambridge in the UK have released a study that attributes about 8,000 premature deaths to emissions from airplanes at cruise altitudes. Landing and takeoff also produce a significant quantity of pollutants, but they are already regulated, while cruising at altitudes of over 3,000 feet isn't (at least not worldwide)." www.treehugger.com...

Planes I saw today were way high up, couple thousand feet or more.

I don't believe there is any conspiracy here to poison anyone out right, as claimed by many in threads I've read through out the years, instead I see this as an over-sight such as it were with the cars and trucks before smog check certifications were even thought of. And I'll add a convenient over-sight such as not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars to have planes checked in a drill sargent fashion for emissions revamps, just as having to have cars a certain way for emission control has drained pocket-books for needing this certification or that certification. It's cool if one has extra spending money for this, but not when one is scraping by with all the other taxes and expenses, man what a nightmare that can be just trying to put cheese and bread on the table. So if one understands that owning a mere car can be very expensive one can imagine what operating costs might be for an airline with employees, insurance and the whole nine yards that go along with it. Expensive. At the bottom of all this mess, or top, which ever way you want to see it, ha ha, it appears the airlines are working on emission control to a degree.

As far as cloud seeding and other forms of weather alteration via the human go, that's a diferent subject where obviously that could be used for both evil or good purposes. These planes being discussed here are indeed leaving behind smog, just like vehicles on the highways do, but they are not purposefully aiming a chemical squirt at a population and trying to kill them off, that's as ridiculous of a claim as saying the cell phone companies are purposefully trying to give everyone brain cancer. The machines were created not too long ago either, and obviously need to be improved upon. But it's really amazing how far they have come in such a short time!!!!! These are all new toys if you think about it. I think the first passenger planes came out in the 1930's, so should we expect perfection in 80 years? It's amazing any human got anything to stay in the air in the first place (: