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Did Jesus kill?

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I think this has more to do with your literal interpretation of things that are not literal, than IAMIAM's understanding.
Matthew 13: 10-17 KJV


And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith,

"By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;
and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
for this people's heart is waxed gross,

and their ears are dull of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed;
lest at any time they should see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and should understand with their heart,
and should be converted, and I should heal them."
Is. 6.9, 10
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


This is being said, Of Everyone, including Religious Leaders.

Furthermore, he is literally instructing us, in the gnosis, to go within, and seek/ask/pray, for our sight to be healed, and our eyes opened.

This really is so basic, even small children with love in them, can understand. It has to do with the Spirit within us and the Love and Light within that is drawn to all other expressions of Light and Love.

This relates to what happens to the pure Light recognition small children have:


and when he sowed, some seeds fell by the wayside, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because

they had no deepness of earth:
and when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

but other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Matthew 13;4-9

Even the church's are the kind of distortions we're receiving.




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Actually, Christ was not accused of heresy, he was accused of blasphemy. And, in either case, he wasn't guilty, unless you don't believe that he really was God.


Again this is merely interpretation. Define God? I define God as Good. Or, as the Genesis really didn't use a singular term for God in the Hebrew, Good Family. ie. in Infinity and Infinite Progression those outside this universe, Beyond the veil, all who are True Good and True Love, the True Creator(s).

Of course, you may have your own.

That which is the True Good and True love in existance, cannot do someone wrong, as everything here is subject to control and distortion.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



I think this has more to do with your literal interpretation of things that are not literal, than IAMIAM's understanding.


Christ explained His parables to the disciples in the text. He didn't offer the explanation to the masses. Christ's parable explanations are written down.

Just read them fro yourself, if you want to study further then break down the Koine Greek with a Lexicon. It's not hard.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by adjensen
You are claiming that the Gnostics, who utterly rejected God, as he was testified to being by Christ himself, are simply another avenue to find God, which is nonsense.


If it was nonsense, don't you trust that God is capable of correcting it? Is God so feable that he needs you to clarify the matter for him?


Does it not occur to you that God IS attempting to correct it by putting me here, now, with my knowledge of Gnosticism and early church history, to refute the claims of heresy? God is not going to force you to not believe the Gnostics, but he might make sure that you have sufficient knowledge to make that decision yourself.


Why can't they be right, and you be right as well. What is wrong with different?


Because Gnosticism and Judaism cannot both be right. I don't understand why you're incapable of grasping that -- they are contradictory, so it is impossible for them both to be right. They are not simply different paths to the same destination, they are different paths to completely different destinations, when there can be only one.

Either you are ridiculously obstinate, or you really do not understand Gnosticism and Judaism at all.


He gave two laws to those who needed two laws. Those who could not understand what was meant by "The Kingdom of God is within you.

To those who understood that that meant that God dwelled within all of us, and by loving your neighbor you are loving yourself, Christ gave the one commandment of, Love one another.


That is your interpretation, it's not what scripture says. He did not say "these are optional." He explicitly said that those two things are what was required for everlasting life, and by rejecting Christ, by the rejection of his teaching, and the rejection of God, you are intentionally violating what Christ called the greatest commandment of all.


Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
-- Matthew 22:37-40 ( KJV, in honour of NOTurTypical
)

edit on 4-3-2011 by adjensen because: oopsies



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Was Christ Condemned a heretic?

Yes he was.

Christ taught to submit to God's law, not the law of man. Christ taught to do what is profitable to God, not what is profitable to man. Christ taught his followers to not judge, but to love one another. Yet here are his followers:




1Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


All that was Christ's teachings, was latter decreed heretical by HIS church. His teachings were usurped by the church and turned to profit of wealth and power, and they even brag about it in that book you worship. The Church became self-righteous, and so have her children.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Explained? The explanations take some very deep thinking and Light and Love. I've read them and I don't think we would agree on the meanings. Yet I am only drawn by the Light Squares in anything and have since childhood felt the Presence, been an experiencer, and experienced my Father, my Dad, basically, enveloping me and telling me it was time to come home. My whole being initially registered words, a voice, and then, it became an internal message, and I was just sagging with enormous relief and without conscious understanding, nodding over and over again, with such gratitude.

We have a wonderful Family, Father/Mother, Brothers and Sisters, and they have walked this walk, know all that we are going through and are here Team Work always to lend a helping hand, but it takes seeking.

Its only when the shells of this world, its distortion and materialism, and especially its Lack of Love, or Tough Love, wars and retaliation, fall away from us that we can even begin to access the true connections and not suffer distortion or the other ones attempting to influence or snare one. For the connection is the Love channel, and it takes the highest, finest, kindest, most unconditional love to make those connections.

We are becoming, and this world is all about tests, without memories, to take the training wheels off, and ride the bike like a big child, or another way, its about growing up.

If we become aware, wake up, connect within to Love, start to ask for our sight to be healed, our negative squares turned to positive and to see with Light and Love only, it will be done, gradually more and more will be taken away. Often still tests and then suddenly, like being born again, a deep problem you've been having is gone, it falls away and grace, is there instead.

Its not bringing heaven to earth, but we are to bring earth to heaven, for the final transformation, whenever this mysterious date has been set, and it will come, when earth and her channel/universe is raised up, when the separation occurs that is gravity itself, the Light will be unto the Light, overcoming the gravity.

So the real search is to look at those who examplify and are Love, Peace, Light, and to seek within, pray, take all our failings to Father, and Brother and seek to find ways to turn them around to help.

The best definition of Love I read recently is it is to be found wherever we are not.

Think of the way religions behave with their definitions and ask yourself if the Church is truly like that, or if a traditional explanation suffices in showing how deep and true and kind Love truly is.

These are not things you will find in the Church, or in the world, they're hidden, and you need to go within to pick up that trail. The controllers make it very hard to find the trail, they equate God with smiting and war and punishing. Not Love, Growth, Kindness, Service To Others, and Turning the Other Cheek. They pay only lip service to these passages and bury them quickly with emphasis on the distortions.
edit on 4-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by adjensen
 



Actually, Christ was not accused of heresy, he was accused of blasphemy. And, in either case, he wasn't guilty, unless you don't believe that he really was God.


Again this is merely interpretation.


What is merely interpretation? Christ was condemned by the Jewish authorities for the crime of blasphemy -- that was the reason that he was put to death. Under Jewish law, this was completely appropriate, so if you don't believe that Christ was God, while making claims that he was, then your conclusion would be that he was guilty of blasphemy and rightly executed.

Not sure what's interpretive about that.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Does it not occur to you that God IS attempting to correct it by putting me here, now, with my knowledge of Gnosticism and early church history, to refute the claims of heresy?


I am sorry, I did not realise you were claiming to speak for God. I did not realise you were taking HIS name.

If you are, I hope you are not doing so for your own vanity, to prove that you are right.

Are you?


Originally posted by adjensen
God is not going to force you to not believe the Gnostics, but he might make sure that you have sufficient knowledge to make that decision yourself.


You seem to know a lot about how God thinks and how he works, have you seen him?


Originally posted by adjensen
Because Gnosticism and Judaism cannot both be right. I don't understand why you're incapable of grasping that -- they are contradictory, so it is impossible for them both to be right. They are not simply different paths to the same destination, they are different paths to completely different destinations, when there can be only one.


So, because you declare that there MUST be one voice of God, then it must be so?


Originally posted by adjensen
Either you are ridiculously obstinate, or you really do not understand Gnosticism and Judaism at all.


Forget Gnosticism or Judaism, I want to know God, and he is found in all manifestations. At least MY God is.


Originally posted by adjensen
That is your interpretation, it's not what scripture says. He did not say "these are optional." He explicitly said that those two things are what was required for everlasting life, and by rejecting Christ, by the rejection of his teaching, and the rejection of God, you are intentionally violating what Christ called the greatest commandment of all.


They are redundant commandments. To love God, IS to love your neighbor. He is in all things, he is omnipotent, Omnipresent, and omnibenevolent.

If you do not believe this then you are following a lesser being.

It's ok if that is what you want to follow. But, I am an all or nothing kinda guy.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


In reality, he was Good, and from the Good Family, the true Creator(s) that input the energy and blueprint via the stars and gateways into this Hologram. Normally, here on earth, according to our finite understandings, we call this God. You use a word I don't, my word means the same thing except its a more Quantum Physics explanation, relating expecially to my favorite subject, Infinity, and what the implications are for being in an Infinite Platform. The Highest Truth, Goodness and Love in existence.

I made a post about what the True Adults overseeing the playground and noting the bullies did, instead of just telling everyone the scrap of papers and IOU contracts were delusional, One who is called the Christ, entered into our Minds/Thoughtscapes and showed us why we are free.

Because even though their universal laws and contracts were all flawed at the foundation, so distorted was their thinking to begin with, however, they violated the biggest tenant of all of them, they put an innocent man to death, they themselves knew they were not given authority over the pure of heart. He overcame their game, their distortions, freed everyone whoever was playing the game with the bullies by being the perfect Lamb of God, showed that there is consequence to actions but instead of simply saying, forgive each other, which was also said, nullified the bullies pseduo law contracts and Conquered Death Itself in our minds.

He was also the fire fighter that offered himself to flames to spare the baby. He demonstrated perfect service to others and selflessness.

edit on 4-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by adjensen
That is your interpretation, it's not what scripture says. He did not say "these are optional." He explicitly said that those two things are what was required for everlasting life, and by rejecting Christ, by the rejection of his teaching, and the rejection of God, you are intentionally violating what Christ called the greatest commandment of all.


They are redundant commandments. To love God, IS to love your neighbor. He is in all things, he is omnipotent, Omnipresent, and omnibenevolent.


So you are a pantheist?

There's no point to responding to the rest of your post, because you clearly are operating under a radically different set of beliefs than those in the Bible and an apparently ingrained belief that logic plays no part in matters such as these.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


You would condemn him for blasphemy today, if he arrived in similar fashion, it is easy to see....

Literally all Christians feel they are in some sort of battle to keep the book from being talked badly about....

What a sad waste of time it is indeed, yet ANOTHER tactic to keep people from TRULY finding god....



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
So you are a pantheist?


I don't do labels my friend. I know God, and that is enough. No one else has to know him like I know him. My relationship with him is all my own.


Originally posted by adjensen
There's no point to responding to the rest of your post, because you clearly are operating under a radically different set of beliefs than those in the Bible and an apparently ingrained belief that logic plays no part in matters such as these.


Ah I think I see where we have our different point of view. You think Logic can answer for God.

Well here is where I will leave you to the atheists to show just how weak the logic is in the Bible.

That is not my fight. I open hearts and minds, not cage them.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


We will not have to wait long for the entity of the Church and its teachings to be blown apart...it has gotten no believer anywhere in 2000 years , but dam they sure like the fight !!

The entire thing is to manufacture limits and beliefs in inadequacy, fear , guilt, and restrictive thought.

Watch as the youth of your churches change the belief systems of your churches faster , ever faster.

Soon they will just dismiss most of the Bible altogether, because it is so irrelevant, as it always has been.

But you can continue to play the game of defender to a religion that gives you small glimpses of God, while not realizing or even caring that you can never do what Jesus said a person COULD...

No christian dares try to be like Jesus, they are too busy kissing his feet, and feeling "Lower".

All i can say is,, your time is short !!!



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by adjensen
 


You would condemn him for blasphemy today, if he arrived in similar fashion, it is easy to see....


What is your basis for claiming that?


Literally all Christians feel they are in some sort of battle to keep the book from being talked badly about....


Do you feel that Christians have no right or reason to defend their faith?


What a sad waste of time it is indeed, yet ANOTHER tactic to keep people from TRULY finding god....


How does the defense of Christianity keep anyone from anything? If you wish to believe the Gnostics, knock yourself out, no one is going to stop you. If you want to find God by climbing a mountain or staring at your navel or whatever, who is preventing you from doing that?

Christians believe that Christianity is right and true, and many, such as myself and NOTurTypical, will defend that belief. If you disagree, then just ignore us and go about your business.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


The fact is , Christianity is something that is made up...why do you bother defending something that did not and should not even exist.

Even in your texts there is noone saying to worship Jesus, and certainly no commandment to build an organization dedicated to a book that he didn't write.

It is hilarious how easy it is for you to defend a system that is made up for but one thing, to defend itself.

Just looking at a church today i see a totally different message being spread than even 20 years ago, i guess 20 years ago people just did not get it !!

Christians are very nice people, but they are never going to get Jesus teachings for real while they believe what they do.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by GrinchNoMore
 


I have energy recognition. Some can speak with so much Light and Spirit within that my soul stirs and I have connections to my home, my memories and Family.

The Spirit of Peace and Love is never found in fighting, or opposing. In fact its best to avoid the opposite energies even in their words: Love and its opposite (note not using the words for what it is), Patience and its opposite, Charity, and its opposite, and so forth.

The message given and lived by the Great Teacher within the Gospels, has no other message that is above it. In other words, there is no more perfect expression of Love given, if you free it from the trappings, though this message is lived over and over in many in every age, even before He came to give it, so it is not really owned by anyone.

But that message is not about a fight or an overturning. Nor will Love follow any other footsteps. The Light rejoices in all expressions of Light. Love = Love, Peace = Peace, Light = Light. But it will not follow anything blindly.

Law, Authority, Nations, Leaders, Church's/Temples can be overcome. But Love will never be overcome.
edit on 4-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by adjensen
So you are a pantheist?


I don't do labels my friend. I know God, and that is enough. No one else has to know him like I know him. My relationship with him is all my own.


That's an area where you and I are in complete agreement.



Originally posted by adjensen
There's no point to responding to the rest of your post, because you clearly are operating under a radically different set of beliefs than those in the Bible and an apparently ingrained belief that logic plays no part in matters such as these.


Ah I think I see where we have our different point of view. You think Logic can answer for God.


Answer for God? Not sure what that means, but I believe that God is logical, yes.


Well here is where I will leave you to the atheists to show just how weak the logic is in the Bible.


Oh, they've mostly given up those arguments with me. I don't "play fair", because I'm not a fundamentalist and I do use logic and reason in my responses. Viewed holistically and theologically, the Bible is inherently logical.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


As do I... however the message and total blocking of the Light within of the Church cannot be ignored...

They would tell me that when i shine bright enough that people need sunglasses , this is because i am engaged in witchcraft.

They have an answer for everything, it is all fear , and TRUE blasphemy.

What I am trying to say to them is, the time they have for remaining in the dark is going to be blown apart, a full-blown '___' experience that cannot be stopped....

They have been taught to fear everything that is not in "there localized belief of scriptures, they are materialistic beyond the ability to see,,,they cannot seem to stop fighting over what is true or not in the Book they claim is the "Word of God".

Imagine that, finding enlightenment and answers to questions i had from the Bible, ONLY AFTER LEAVING the force fed jargon of the church , of which i could not escape for the first 19 years of my life...

Now, after finally having questions answered instead of avoided in EVERY possible fashion, they do not even see the youth of their own churches have begun dismissing most of the crap, and faster with each passing week.

Hell it is amazing to me now that so many youth groups go out for a couple beers after church, they are clearly looking for something that is not going to be found in such a restrictive environment.

And soon enough ALL will realize that they are the very ones that have been duped, the ones they thought they were "fighting against"... and that the false prophets have been owning them for a VERY LONG TIME.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
Christians are very nice people, but they are never going to get Jesus teachings for real while they believe what they do.


So, if the Bible is fictitious and not to be trusted, how is anyone supposed to "get Jesus teachings for real"? The only source that we have for Christ's teachings is the Bible, so if you throw that out, what are you going to turn to? (If you're going to say Nag Hammadi, we're back to you needing to explain how the Jewish Messiah and the Gnostic Divine Messenger are reconciled.)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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The purest message given by Christ or the Spirit of Peace and Love is that all the laws, or concepts or understandings in the cosmos, are not without distortions. Peace, Love and Light Truth is pure, and its the simple things that escape us, that which pure hearts and children can see better. All forms of complications are merely distortions. All intellectualizing Love is distortion. All religions are distorted by the same arguments.

Peace. Love. Light=Soul=Consciousness=Awareness. Waking up and being enlightened.



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