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America's Third War: Texas Farmers Under Attack at the Border

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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A recently retired ICE veteran, John Sakelarides had plenty to say about the latest U.S. incursion.

“What do you call an invasion by foreign nationals who are armed and occupy territory belonging to a sovereign nation? An act of war. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. Anyone who is denying this is what has occurred and that it constitutes an act of war is either an idiot or is somehow involved in this act of war.”

Link

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Thanks for the good info link, Charles1952.




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 


Everything I said is the truth. What the TDA and the TX Rangers said is the truth. You effectively called me/them liars.


...i'm under no obligation to believe everything i hear or read...


Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
So you must have some political or other agenda,


...because i dont agree with you?... yeah, okay, whatever...



Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
since you shoot down every point I made without any investigation, only ridicule and insinuation.


...there is no need to investigate exaggerated nonsense about rampant heavily-armed drug smugglers (in the 80s and 90s) who brazenly crossed the border and then walked for hours and hours and hours because thats the best plan they could come up with to transport their dope into the usofa...



Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
You must work for the "Yanaguana/San Antonio River" Chamber of Commerce, maybe, or "Falcon Lake Boat Tours-Free Bullet proof Vests!" Flush out your headgear, please.


...so, you googled yanaguana... well, yippy skippy doo dah...

...we are not going to agree, mister... i dont have a problem with that... if you do, i suggest you walk it off... start with your heels on the rio grande (pick any spot you want), then head towards the nearest section of the king ranch and be sure to tote enough weight to imitate the weight of an automatic assault rifle, ammo and a backpack full of dope - and - have a nice day...



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 

I/m sorry my link didn't work so I'm trying a new link to the same story. The reason I think it's relevant is because it contains the Laredo, TX police department blotter entry.


...that story has already been debated / dissected here on ats... use the ats search box if you're interested in reading that discussion...

...btw, your source is a bunch of blogs - not exactly factual stuff...

sdrostra.com...

Each blog posting is the opinion of the individual author, not necessarily shared by the other site authors or administrators.




Originally posted by charles1952
I think, if you're going to be in the least fair, you'll have to admit there is some border violence in Texas.


...i think, if you're going to attempt to be fair, you should re-post any of my statements that says i believe there is NO violence along the border...



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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The night movement of drugs by black-outfitted smugglers on foot (known as "mules") is well known by locals along the river, especially around Laredo. Not all of them carry the weapons, only those on the corners or at either end of the line(s), depending on terrain. It is not the preferred way to carry heavy dope like marijuana, but a couple of kilos of coc aine or heroin per person adds up to a big load for a whole "platoon". Around 4.4 lbs each. Don't you think the average illegal could tote that?

How do I know this? I am an avid hunter, and spent many days and (nights - camping and wild boar hunting by moonlight) in the S. Texas brush country. Also some time near Brackettville (around 30 miles from Del Rio).
Other hunters and ranch hands who had been there longer told me what it was I had seen when I described it to them. These night movers were very different in appearance and behavior from the usual illegal aliens I had seen many times over the years. Silent (no talking, coughing etc, crossing a gate like commandos, uniformly dressed), more disciplined in their movement, i.e. no laggers.

They only need to move it through border ranches the distance it takes to meet at a less "surveillable location" (for lack of a better word) more distant from the river, then move via vehicle through adjacent ranches further inside the US, then connect to FM roads that will get them past checkpoints.

This is not to repsond to the naysayer(s), this is for the benefit of the rest of the USA who for the most part have no idea what is really going on on the southern border.


edit on 4-3-2011 by 1SawSomeThings because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 


Dear Wyn Hawks,

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG in thinking that you claimed there was no violence at the border. Thanks for keeping me straight.

How should I best understand your position? There is less violence at the border than other parts of the country? There is the same violence as everywhere else? There is more violence but there is a reason for it? There is more violence but the US is bad too? How would you describe your thoughts?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by Under Water



The border was dangerous 30 years ago,



...then you must be a nervous nellie cuz thats bs...


My husband's family is from brownsville, which is right on the border and according to their perspective, things have been dangerous for a long time, and continues to get worse.


I live 20 miles up-river from Brownsville . . . and I can vouch for your in-laws perspective. I have lived here for 28 years. It has never been like this.

Yes, it did get bad at times, but it is worse now.

Some days you can hear gunfire, grenades/bombs. Somedays, all is peaceful.

Mexican Army vehicles cross over the river for pete's sake.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 


How should I best understand your position?


...i stated my opinion of the thread topic in my first post... www.abovetopsecret.com...

...tell me which part confused you or which part you dont agree with and we'll go from there...



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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The only thing I have to say is this....

ATS wil know it is me who is running for president....


"It is much cheaper for the United States of America to defend The southern border of Mexico then her northern border... Less Gaurds, less fence, and less immigrants....US territories citizens are not immigrants.... hence an easy and much cheaper solution.."

"America by birth, southern by the grace of god.... God bless this nation"



edit on 5-3-2011 by ripcontrol because: proud Merican



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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Thank you, Wyn Hawks, it is a pleasure (speaking?) with you. Let me try to explain my confusion. I think I'll just quote your entire first post.


...staples will say anything to promote gop bs and to get federal money but, contrary to what he says, that money (if its awarded) will not go towards safeguarding texan farmers or ranchers along the border... it'll be wasted AGAIN, just like always...


Here you seem to be saying that Staples is wrong in saying there is danger. And if he is believed, and gets funding it will not be used to defend the farmers. Why do they need defending?


...that website is gop orchestrated "keep em scared" junk... sos, different day...


And here you seem to be saying the website is wrong in saying there is danger.


...everything that comes via fox news is heavily laced with bs... its not journalism, not even close...


And again, you seem to be saying that Fox news is wrong in saying there is danger.


...many texans have had their property stolen, errr, uh, forceably purchased by the government for pennies on the dollar for the nafta superhighway and/or for the border fence project that corporations made millions (billions?) off of even though the fence didnt even slow down illegal immigration... this has been going on for decades... how much time has fox given to that?... a few seconds here and there - maybe...


Here it seems you are complaining about eminent domain (I think it has been misused, too), the inefficiency of a fence in keeping out (dangerous?) illegal aliens, and Fox news (which you also did earlier in your post).

I believe I am at least a little justified in being confused about what you do believe about violence on the border.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Previously posted by Wyn Hawks
...staples will say anything to promote gop bs and to get federal money but, contrary to what he says, that money (if its awarded) will not go towards safeguarding texan farmers or ranchers along the border... it'll be wasted AGAIN, just like always...



Originally posted by charles1952
Here you seem to be saying that Staples is wrong in saying there is danger.


...no... my statement (above) clearly says that i believe todd staples is an anti-citizen pro-big-government pro-corporatist liar...


Originally posted by charles1952
And if he is believed, and gets funding it will not be used to defend the farmers. Why do they need defending?



...i'm having a hard time believing anyone is THAT dense unintentionally...


...next...

Previously posted by Wyn Hawks
...that website is gop orchestrated "keep em scared" junk... sos, different day...



Originally posted by charles1952
And here you seem to be saying the website is wrong in saying there is danger.


...you're either obsessed with the word "danger" or you're inserting it intentionally to direct the focus off of people, like staples, who will say and do anything to keep citizens afraid and/or unaware that the problems along the border are due to the actions of the federal government and the dirty politicians within texas government...


Previously posted by Wyn Hawks
...everything that comes via fox news is heavily laced with bs... its not journalism, not even close...



Originally posted by charles1952
And again, you seem to be saying that Fox news is wrong in saying there is danger.



...i'm having a REALLY hard time believing anyone is THAT dense unintentionally...


...next...

Previously posted by Wyn Hawks
...many texans have had their property stolen, errr, uh, forceably purchased by the government for pennies on the dollar for the nafta superhighway and/or for the border fence project that corporations made millions (billions?) off of even though the fence didnt even slow down illegal immigration... this has been going on for decades... how much time has fox given to that?... a few seconds here and there - maybe...



Originally posted by charles1952
Here it seems you are complaining about eminent domain (I think it has been misused, too), the inefficiency of a fence in keeping out (dangerous?) illegal aliens, and Fox news (which you also did earlier in your post).


...in the article (linked below) is one lady's story... her name is pamela taylor... there are many texans (not just farmers and ranchers) that are in the same position or worse as mrs taylor due to the border fence project...

www.statesman.com...


The government doesn't keep count, but Taylor and other residents think there are about eight houses stranded on the south side of the fence.

"It's a no man's land," Taylor said. "They said they were going to build a fence to protect all the people. We were just lost in the draw."



While the border fence almost everywhere else divides Mexico and the U.S., here it divides parts of the city.



In and around Brownsville, the fence slices through two-lane roads, backyards, agricultural fields, citrus groves and pastures for more than 21 miles, trapping tens of thousands of acres, according to some property owners' estimates. (The Homeland Security Department did not keep track of the total.)


...did you catch that last part?...

...hsd did not keep track of the total amount of citizen-owned property adversely affected by the border fence... hsd authorizes/encourages tsa to act like nazis and treat traveling citizens like the enemy, totally crapping on our rights, and they dont give a damn about citizens trapped by that worthless fence or those whose land they either confiscated or sliced through for that worthless fence...

...if you google "border fence texas", you'll find lots of articles and videos of citizens that are being trivialized, screwed, ignored and/or forgotten not only by the federal government but also by many texans within the corporate arena, political arena or private militia arena...

...the pro-victimizers also have articles and videos on the web promoting fear, further trivializing the truth of what the federal government and state government is doing to citizens...


...next...

Originally posted by charles1952
I believe I am at least a little justified in being confused about what you do believe about violence on the border.


...look back through your statements and count how many times you used the word "danger" when it was not even the focus of my statement that you were responding to... i underlined them for ya cuz i'm just real dang helpful that way...

...i'll cut you some slack, charles, if english isnt your primary language but if thats not the case, you confused yourself or you're playing games...

...my bottom line is - mexican cartels are not the biggest threat along the border... the federal government is - followed by liars, puppets and thieves within state government...



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

Thank you for helping keep it straight. Please keep it up. I know you can't fix stupid, but some of us know better.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 




...my bottom line is - mexican cartels are not the biggest threat along the border... the federal government is - followed by liars, puppets and thieves within state government...


Honest question: Do you work for a cartel?

You have been objecting to every statement about the danger on the TX border, either from personal, citizen reports, or law enforcement and state personnel.

What is your purpose? Where are you going with this? The danger on the border is well documented, yet you persist.

You have to have the last word, for some reason. What is it?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Dear Wyn Hawks,

Always a pleasure, and you're right, I'm pretty darn dense. Put me down as an exhibit of how dense some one can be when English is their first language.

But you're not doing much to help me out here. (Of course, you don't have to, I was just hoping to learn.) I was sincerly interested on finding out your opinion on violence on or near the Texas-Mexico border. (For clarification, I repeated more than just the word "danger." Pretty much the whole sentence was repeated. It was for effect.)

There were three sources in just my posts claiming there was danger or violence on the border, you claimed they were liars. From that I assumed you believed there wasn't any violence or danger. (Or so little, that it was hardly woth mentioning.)

You do mention

that the problems along the border are due to the actions of the federal government and the dirty politicians within texas government...
I suppose the problems you're referring to could be either the eminent domain you've condemned, or the illegal alien violence, or both.

I'm sorry that I'm so dense that I appear to have exasperated you, but calling me that doesn't answer my questions.

I thought this thread was about border violence and believed that you were discussing that too. It appears I misunderstood your intention.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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I am a Texan, and I have family that lives close to the border, though I don't.
Yes, there is violence.
But, the point that is being missed here, is that lives have been ruined MORE by the actions of the federal and state governments than by these cartels. Cartels that are EMPOWERED by our state and federal governments.
So, who are the bigger enemies?
An agent with the BATFE has admitted that he was told to let illegal weapons move into Mexico. This is a federal agent. We have a Texas governor that is all for stealing people's lands for an international and private toll highway.
Again, WHOM are the bigger enemies of freedom loving and law abiding citizens? Why are TEXANS afraid to defend themselves? Because of The LAW enforcement of OUR federal government whom are engaging in LAWLESS actions.
So, get a damn grip people.

edit on 5-3-2011 by Stewie because: clarity



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 

Honest question: Do you work for a cartel?


...first you question if i'm really a texan... then you insinuate that i've never been to the border except to get drunk like a tourist... then you suggested i worked for the sa chamber or commerce or some outfit on falcon lake... now you accuse me of working for a cartel... tsk, tsk, tsk...


Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
You have been objecting to every statement about the danger on the TX border, either from personal, citizen reports, or law enforcement and state personnel.


...thats an exaggeration but i've come to expect that from you...


...truth is - i responded to the op, to you and to charles... that leaves quite a few posts that i didnt respond to and some of those even held views similar to some of mine...


Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
What is your purpose?


...my purpose in life?... gosh, if that was any of your biz, you'd already know...


...my purpose on ats?... to state my opinion on issues that matter to me...



Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
Where are you going with this?


...anywhere i wanna go...



Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
The danger on the border is well documented, yet you persist.


...i never said there was no danger on the border...

...imo, the primary issue is the mistreatment of usofa/texan citizens who have had their land confiscated or sliced up for that worthless fence...

...you dont give a damn about those people or you would not have responded to my last post to charles with more of your foolish accusations and exaggerations...


Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
You have to have the last word, for some reason. What is it?





posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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Dear Wyn Hawks,

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...i never said there was no danger on the border...

...imo, the primary issue is the mistreatment of usofa/texan citizens who have had their land confiscated or sliced up for that worthless fence...


WONDERFUL! You have a passion for protecting the citizens of Texas from government abuse, and other people have a passion for protecting them from border violence. There has to be a way those can both be done. I'm glad you're around to make sure that border protection has a broader scope than just providing safety from people coming across from Mexico.

You and the other people who have posted could make a powerful team. Thanks, I've enjoyed it.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Stewie
I am a Texan, and I have family that lives close to the border, though I don't.
Yes, there is violence.
But, the point that is being missed here, is that lives have been ruined MORE by the actions of the federal and state governments than by these cartels. Cartels that are EMPOWERED by our state and federal governments.
So, who are the bigger enemies?


I agree. I think Texas is caught in the middle of this. There is no bigger enemy. Both sides are trying to take the land.


An agent with the BATFE has admitted that he was told to let illegal weapons move into Mexico. This is a federal agent. We have a Texas governor that is all for stealing people's lands for an international and private toll highway.


I agree . . . and Texas would have been better off with Medina. But the Bilderberg Perry spin machine (aka Pat Gray and Glenn Beck) took care of that.



Again, WHOM are the bigger enemies of freedom loving and law abiding citizens? Why are TEXANS afraid to defend themselves? Because of The LAW enforcement of OUR federal government whom are engaging in LAWLESS actions.
So, get a damn grip people.


AGain, I see both as equal enemies.

I say shoot anyone that comes on your land.

Castle doctrine, and F em.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 

Thanks for the response.
I only disagree with you on one point. I don't think the cartels want to take "our" land, or even that Mexicans want to take our land. Working Mexicans just want the opportunity to work.
Mexicans and Texicans get along just fine. Both cherish their culture, and that is just fine by both.
It is really quite simple. If Drug Cartels can come into Texas with automatic weapons, then it is allowed to happen by Texas government, and by the U.S. federal government. Period.
If Texans cannot defend themselves against trespassers and those that violate their rights, then it is because they are afraid of prosecution by Texas government, or the U.S. federal government. Period.
Texans can defend themselves. In fact, Texans are quite capable of taking the war to Mexico. But, the point is, that Texans that I know, have Mexican friends. These Mexicans love Texas.
So, any dispute is with those that empower criminals, or, put another way, criminals that empower criminals.
They are our common enemy.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Stewie
 


Regarding cartels, I meant it figuratively. Sorry I was not clear.

They do not want to keep the land, but they do want to use it for their needs.

I was trying to say that us people on the border are caught between a rock and a hard place.



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