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Wisconsin Senate passes resolution calling for Democrats to be taken into police custody

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posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious
Yeah, I realize my analogy is absurd but I was striving for something on par with your assertion.




LOL - that was funny.

I am not opposed to or in denial of - - - "everything affects everything" - - - but a direct connection?




posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Annee, the word "democracy" is overrated. America is a Republic, ya know like, "to the Republic for which it stands" ?

"John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men."[1] Constitutional republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the perceived threat of majoritarianism, thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population.[2] The power of the majority of the people is checked by limiting that power to electing representatives who are required to legislate with limits of overarching constitutional law which a simple majority cannot modify." source: en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 5-3-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by kroms33
 





Isn't it funny that Republicans are always complaining about less government – but yet when 14 senators go missing they still cry foul?



Apples and oranges! Less govt doesn't mean no govt, or irresponsible govt.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Skerrako
reply to post by nenothtu
 





Yeah, those who don't run squealing away from their duties to Illinois.


For the last time, their duties are not to sit in a chair and vote!


I'm willing to bet perfectly good money that it ain't "for the last time".


It has been more than adequately shown that their duty is to be where the session is, WHEN the session is, regardless of their posture or their vote, not running squealing away from adversity.



Their duties are to stand up for the rights of the people!


Yes, that would likely be a part of their duty, and again, running away from adversity is NOT standing up for anything at all - it's running FROM it. For the record, it's quite apparent which small segment of "the people" they THINK they are "standing up for" by running away. The rest of us obviously don't matter - or perhaps we're just not "people"? Also for the record NO ONE'S business is being done while they are off on their little jaunt, not theirs, not the Unions', and not the People's.

They are NOT about the People's Business.



You demonize the nost noble act.


If the shoe fits...



They had no choice but to leave if they had any chance of a real democratic process.


"Real democratic process" is accomplished by the vote, which they seem to be reticent to deliver - so much so, that they RUN AWAY and SHIRK their duty. This is NOT "democratic process", it is the HIJACKING of the democratic process by a minority, holding the rest hostage to a fit of pique.

Just so you'll know, there is ALWAYS a choice. Mine has always been to stand and fight for what I believe in, not slink away from it. Theirs, apparently not so much.



You want them to come back so the Reps could push it through using shady tactics just like they did in the assembly?


I want them to do what they were hired to do - be about the People's Business, and get it done. If it's done with "shady tactics", well, that's been done, and quite recently, at the national level. There are remedies for that.

There are ALSO remedies for Dereliction of Duty, and I hope to see those remedies enforced some time soon.




edit on 2011/3/5 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Annee
 


Annee, the word "democracy" is overrated. America is a Republic, ya know like, "to the Republic for which it stands" ?


I am very much aware America is a Democratic Republic (or was - or was intended to be). I'd say today it is Corporate Fascist.

Did I mention democracy somewhere? That doesn't sound like something I'd say.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Did I mention democracy somewhere? That doesn't sound like something I'd say.


Here.


Originally posted by Annee

Ah yeah OK.

Welcome to rollover and let strong arm money backed bullies steamroll democracy.

Brilliant.




edit on 2011/3/5 by nenothtu because: fix link, add quote.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 




Well I am glad you don't agree but have missed my point entirely! The POTUS's actions over the past 2 years in office along with the actions of the Congress, pushing unpopular legislation through the congress with little or no compromise created a sense of disenfranchisement among voters in this country. This sense of disenfranchisement manifested itself with the voting out of office democrats all over the U.S. in the State and
Federal level, thus allowing Republicans to take control of the Wisconsin State Senate and allowing gov. Walker to take office. You now have a Republican governor and no one to counter balance him since the Republicans also took the senate and here we sit. It is more like a domino effect.


Does my assertion still seem like a "stretch"? And if it is then you tell me why the Democrats lost so many seats on the State and Federal level? Or more specifically why was there such a large turnover in Wisconsin?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
Welcome to rollover and let strong arm money backed bullies steamroll democracy.

Brilliant.



Well - - that was a bit flippant and designed to make a point.

However - it is strictly explicit to - - - in this case - - - a power/money grab - - - by manipulation - - - as I see it.

Not saying - - everyone sees it that way. But it is how I see it.

Although America is a Democratic Republic - - - I'm not so sure that fits on a smaller scale involving one state.

I suppose its kind of an "either / or".



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by bphi1908
reply to post by kinda kurious
 




Well I am glad you don't agree but have missed my point entirely! The POTUS's actions over the past 2 years in office along with the actions of the Congress, pushing unpopular legislation through the congress with little or no compromise created a sense of disenfranchisement among voters in this country.


Its only unpopular if you don't agree with it.

You are seeing what you want to see.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

1] Constitutional republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the perceived threat of majoritarianism, thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population[



That's right, there are lots of checks built into the system to prevent the majority from abusing their control. For example, the senate is their to protect the less populated States from being abused by the more populated States. And even when it passes both houses, it has to be signed by the President (unless there are enough votes to over-ride the veto, and even then it can't violate basic rights.

Leaving the State to prevent a vote is another check in the system.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I can acknowlege that, since it's how you see it.

The way I see it is that it's ALL a power/money grab, whether Corporatist or Union. Neither cares a fig for the "little man" that so many talk about, and CLAIM to be looking out for.

I personally think it's just about time for the People to do some power grabbing of their own, and cut out BOTH of those middle men from the equation. Take back the government for the People, and leave the Unions and Corporations out in the cold to duke it out and fend for themselves.

The money will follow, if that's what folks want. They really don't need either of those sorts of organizations positioning themselves to "filter out" what THEY want. I'm perfectly capable of figuring out for myself where I want my money to go, and I need neither Union nor Corporation (I really see NO difference between the two) to do my deciding for me.

When I was in the SEIU, " collective bargaining" seemed to mean that THEY did the bargaining, and THEY did all the collecting, too. Not much filtered down to me or the other guys I worked with.

Same for Corporations - not much filtered down from their side of things, either.

In both cases, they didn't have any problems COLLECTING from me, either money or labor, and using that as THEY saw fit. I can do that for myself.

Maybe, in both cases, the "filter" was just clogged...



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Daughter2

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

1] Constitutional republics are a deliberate attempt to diminish the perceived threat of majoritarianism, thereby protecting dissenting individuals and minority groups from the "tyranny of the majority" by placing checks on the power of the majority of the population[



That's right, there are lots of checks built into the system to prevent the majority from abusing their control. For example, the senate is their to protect the less populated States from being abused by the more populated States. And even when it passes both houses, it has to be signed by the President (unless there are enough votes to over-ride the veto, and even then it can't violate basic rights.

Leaving the State to prevent a vote is another check in the system.




I suppose one could see it that way. An illegal and immoral check, but a check of sorts all the same. It's nothing less than trying to use the system to break the system, and not a very good use of the system at that, since there are sanctions provided to prevent that ill usage.

Luckily, there are remedies available to prevent such miscarriage of the system.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Annee
 


I can acknowlege that, since it's how you see it.

The way I see it is that it's ALL a power/money grab, whether Corporatist or Union. Neither cares a fig for the "little man" that so many talk about, and CLAIM to be looking out for.

I personally think it's just about time for the People to do some power grabbing of their own, and cut out BOTH of those middle men from the equation. Take back the government for the People, and leave the Unions and Corporations out in the cold to duke it out and fend for themselves.

The money will follow, if that's what folks want. They really don't need either of those sorts of organizations positioning themselves to "filter out" what THEY want. I'm perfectly capable of figuring out for myself where I want my money to go, and I need neither Union nor Corporation (I really see NO difference between the two) to do my deciding for me.

When I was in the SEIU, " collective bargaining" seemed to mean that THEY did the bargaining, and THEY did all the collecting, too. Not much filtered down to me or the other guys I worked with.

Same for Corporations - not much filtered down from their side of things, either.

In both cases, they didn't have any problems COLLECTING from me, either money or labor, and using that as THEY saw fit. I can do that for myself.

Maybe, in both cases, the "filter" was just clogged...




Maybe I've just lived too long - - and witnessed changes that should never have been.

Words and Rhetoric.

I don't know if people have always been so blinded and manipulated by the power of charisma - - - but I suppose they have. Then they pay the consequences - - and wonder what happened after it is too late.

OH! And besides - - I have my own political issues - - I live on the SW border of Arizona.

edit on 5-3-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


They can punish them all they want.

My issue is them using the state police as their own personal guard to push through the legislation they want.

I seem to remember a lot of people upset about the health care bill because despite all the protests...the government passed the bill anyway.

The capital of Wisconsin is FULL of protestors...for weeks now...and yet people who were hell bent against the health care bill being passed because it "went against the will of the people" are fine with ramming this through.

Absolutely wonderfuly hypocritical.


A few things wrong with this post.

The Health care overhaul was/is unconstitutional. This will be settled by the supreme court though. Also, Republicans did not go into hiding because they opposed the bill. They did not obstruct the voting process by whining like cry babies from "hideouts". They voted, and made it known they were against the bill, which is probably part of the reason why they won so big this past November.

Public unions have far too much power. They need to be reformed. I applaud governor walker for standing firm. Both parties are playing politics with this, Dems like the power and control they have with public unions, republicans dont. So neither side is serving a just cause. However, republicans won this past election cycle, theyre the ones in power, they dictate the path of the state..



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by MindSpin
 


If you object to democratic representation, as you obviously do, then encourage your representative to stay out. The Democrats lost the recent election, ergo they can't defeat the MAJORITY party. By the way, the union member state employees are a minority of "working people" in Wisconsin. You are looking at the future. Public employee unions should be totally crushed. Yes, I used that word on purpose.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by bphi1908
Does my assertion still seem like a "stretch"? And if it is then you tell me why the Democrats lost so many seats on the State and Federal level? Or more specifically why was there such a large turnover in Wisconsin?


Easy, there is a significant amount of misinformation being spewed by the Right wing smear machine (FOX NEWS) directed at a large population of gullible, uninformed voters who think our POTUS is a Muslim etc. There you are in a single sentence.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
www.startribune.com...

The Wisconsin Senate has passed a resolution calling for police to take 14 Democrats into custody for contempt after they fled to Illinois to avoid voting on a union rights bill.

The vote taken Thursday comes two weeks after the Democrats left, effectively delaying the vote on Gov. Scott Walker's proposal taking away most collective bargaining rights from public workers.



I don't care where you stand on the Union issue...no one should be supporting one political party using the police as their personal guard to push policy.

No where in the Wisconsin state constitution or senate laws does it forbid what the Democrats have done...they are not breaking any laws or any rules. They are working within the system to protest proposed legislation and stop the Governor from pushing it through without debate.


I think they are wanting them to go INTO illinois to get them...and use force if necessary.


The resolution says the absent Democrats are determined to be guilty of contempt and disorderly content. It gives the sergeant at arms the authority to take any and all steps, with or without force and assistance from police, to bring the senators back.



I know a lot of people think we live in a police state...maybe they are right.



edit on 3-3-2011 by MindSpin because: (no reason given)




The democrats are failing to do their job, thus promoting a defacto revolution against Illinois. This is causing harm to the peace and dignity of the state and the populace and fomenting insurrection. They have and are becoming enemies of the state and nation. What they are doing is not democratic. They lost in November. They need to take it like mature men and women. I say arrest them and bring them forcibly into the Senate so a vote may be taken.





edit on 6-3-2011 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Annee


I am very much aware America is a Democratic Republic (or was - or was intended to be). I'd say today it is Corporate Fascist.


The age old cry of the wounded Democrat. You know what's fascist? Forcing people to buy things. You could make a good case for the Republican party having some fascist tendencies but even they never went that far.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious


Easy, there is a significant amount of misinformation being spewed by the Right wing smear machine (FOX NEWS) directed at a large population of gullible, uninformed voters who think our POTUS is a Muslim etc. There you are in a single sentence.


He's not a Muslim. He's a liar. Remember when he said he was against the individual mandate? Yeah. What happened to that? He didn't change his mind. He's too stubborn for that. If he didn't want it, it wouldn't be there. He just plain lied.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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my 2c...

There are disgruntled voters who are upset that Obama has not gone far enough, contrary to Fox belief that voters are disgruntled because Obama went too far.

Some of these disgruntled voters I spoke with (not in WI but I venture to guess it's similar) said they would either sit out the election (adding to the usual voter drop in off year elections, which affects Dems) or purposefully vote for a Republican, to let the GOP politicians have their way, and crash and burn this country so completely and badly, that people would have no choice but to rise up and start over.

There could have been some of this at play in WI, but it's too much to say/imply that Obama brought in Republican candidates because he went too far, which is what Fox, Rush, etal would like to shout. Off year elections traditionally are lower turn out, favoring a population likely to vote conservative.

Even though getting rid of collective bargaining rights and union busting (or certainly using national guard/police in this manner) was not in his campaign platform, it's centerfront now. As in the aftermath of any election, what the politician does may not be in keeping with what s/he campaigned on. or seemed to campaign on.

The people of WI (and all over) are finding out, like the song says, "you don't know what you've got till it's gone." Like another song says, "who'll be the next in line"....for abuse.



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