Moore On Wealthy People's Money: "That's Not Theirs, That's A National Resource, It's Ours"

reply to post by centurion1211


I really cannot stand Michael Moore. The allegations of how he exploited the boy who survived five shots to the chest (during Columbine) were enough for me to sneer every time I hear about this guy.

reply to post by 46ACE

Clearly in my mind anyway there is a difference between theft by fraud and doing honest business through hardwork..
BUT not all "wealthy" got their money fraudulently , even inheritances are legal.

Right, there is a definite difference. This does need to be acknowledged. People who make a good product, or have worked hard to earn their money should be able to keep it. Those that have used their greed and have through that greed weakened this country need to be punished for what they have done. Every dime they have made should be taken from them. And yes put in federal pound me in the A** prison.

Should the wealthy be taxed higher? Yep, I think they should be taxed at the rate it was during the Clinton years. Which honestly wasn't really that high. I don't agree with Michael Moore to tax them 90% that's just unfair.

But the Bush Tax cuts for the top tier aren't paid for, they aren't doing anything to help the economy and therefore they shouldn't have continued. The premise for keeping those tax cuts was that businesses weren't hiring because they were afraid the tax cuts wouldn't be extended, well, the tax cuts were extended, and businesses didn't hire. So the tax cuts should be taken away.

As far as inheritances, I think fair would be 20% tax on inheritances. Conservatives want to completely eliminate inheritance tax, I don't understand why, that's an income and it should be taxed. I don't think it should be 50%, That doesn't sound fair to me, but 20% does.

Originally posted by freedish

Originally posted by Mak Manto


I don't get what people have against him. He has no problem with people wanting to go out and start a business and make money. He has a problem when corporations and certain people lying, cheating and stealing to become wealthy.

That's not a Marxist philosophy...

You aint gunna fix that problem by taxing the rich. people are always gonna lie, cheat, and steal.

And who says all the wealthy people had to lie, cheat, and steal to become wealthy?

Ever heard the saying strengthen those who strengthen you?

Except the middle class hasn't been strengthened, hasn't it? It's only driven a deep gap in which many Americans now feel that there is pretty much only two classes: rich and poor.

The idea to give incentives, bonuses, and cuts to the wealthy in the belief that it'll come down to the middle class is a stupid idea.

Bush tried it once with his tax cuts for the rich, and it didn't help.

So, what, Moore's the bad guy by saying that he feels that these mega-corporations and moguls shouldn't get away with screwing innocent Americans?

Originally posted by BillfromCovina
Moore is absolutely right. The problem with people who criticize Moore is that they can't get past their brainwashing to ever sit down and watch one of his movies. They receive their opinion from a conservative show (video, radio, or tv) and lack the intelligence to objectively look at the information. They are afraid to. It would destroy their world view. They pretend to be experts on the economy and capitalism and most have never read a single book on capitalism. This is the rule not the exception.

Wow, I never saw that coming!
You are just as misinformed as Moore.
Moore twists the info to suite his agenda, plain and simple.
Are there some truths in his words, sure. But, a broken clock has the correct time twice a day.

Originally posted by MisterMiyagi
Michael Moore is bang on the money.

Billionaires are hoarding their cash - thus earning millions of dollars in interest that comes from the little guy paying interest on his mortgage and car loan - without putting nearly enough of it back into circulation to generate employment and wealth for other less fortunate individuals.

The more they hoard the greater the interest they earn - the less money there is for everyone else. It's not rocket science. This state of affairs is unfair and completely unsustainable.



I'm quite surprised at the lack of support for Mr Moore on this thread.

The world needs more men like Michael as far as I'm concerned.

It does not matter if the wealthy are hording cash. It is theirs to do so as they please.
Funny, how people always cry foul on others actions.
Try worrying about yourself more and others less.
Stop trying to control what others do and take control of your own life.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by 46ACE
Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..

2%? Large chunk?
Taxes are the price you pay for civilisation...and if folks can't afford Job's product, then it doesn't matter what he manufactures. As you seem to have discovered down there, when there's no work, and the credit runs out, things can get a little punky.

No taxes are not the price you pay for civilization. They are what is stolen out of your pocket to provide for everyone else.
The price you pay for civilization is your interaction with others.
My failures are not your to bare and vice versa.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Yeah, and my wife's aneurysm has been treated for nothing out of pocket, what is your point?

My point is that your country is going down the economic crapper and I am startled by the way y'all blame everybody but the ones responsible. And if Moore lies, create an industry based upon suing him and give the economy a bump that way. You complain about government waste, yet the GOP votes not to finance Elizabeth Warren...who is there to find and cut that waste. Man, it's your morass...time to pay back, I'd say.

Again, you can't suit him. His Documentaries are based on opinion, you can't suit for that.
But, I for one will defend Moore's right to peddle BS to make a buck. But, what he does is peddle BS, crying foul on others peddling BS and people buy into it. It a walking contradiction.
The people have no right to his money, as they have no right to mine.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...

The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.

And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.

The man's about helping those who are suffering...

Really?
How much of his wealth has he donated to help those that are less fortunate? Oh, I forgot, he wants the Govt to do that, by taking from everyone.
It is ridicules to state that he is for helping people by allowing some of his movie to be downloaded. That is just called good PR.

Originally posted by macman
Taxes are the price you pay for civilisation...and if folks can't afford Job's product, then it doesn't matter what he manufactures. As you seem to have discovered down there, when there's no work, and the credit runs out, things can get a little punky.

No taxes are not the price you pay for civilization. They are what is stolen out of your pocket to provide for everyone else.

Nonsense. Schools, roads, infrastructure, fire and police protection, etc, etc...you wanna dole out a check to every individual that offers you a societal service...even those that don't bite you in the butt?
How many people squawk about paying school taxes when they don't have kids...yet don't recognise the strengths of an educated society. It goes on, and the reward is civilisation. Cut everything, and you have suburban Detroit.

I believe you suffer from a self-induced, misplaced myopia....but that's just me.

America was built on the backs of slaves then on the backs of the working man , Rich people have exploited both throughout history to further their own wealth. The rich have been able to benefit from the protection of their nation by working class people who fill up the ranks of the military. The same ones who are sent to foreign lands to secure the energy to drive their capitalist system which provides their wealth.

But , I guess it's wrong to take a pop at the rich, the media says if you worrk really hard, one day you too can be rich and have your house on cribs.

Originally posted by Visitor2012
The massively lame and childish comments reminds me of our dumbed down media. There are many masters sitting on tons of cash that was squeezed out of your exploited slave behind. A large portion of that money, belongs to the people who slaved to make it.

Agreed. Micheal Moore doesn't mean that the rich people should just go to their bank, draw out a lot of cash, and dole it out to us. What he means is the rich need to start investing in America again. The banking cartel is holding tight to their money, they are not making loans. A business, even a small one, needs to set up a cash flow, a signature loan from an investor or bank to but product and produce same, the marketing of product payouts, and the profit is again fed into the system. It used to work like this. So we tell them. Spend some of your money, or we will spend some of your money.

Originally posted by centurion1211

But again the selective reporting.

The dems didn't try to end the tax cuts for just those "earning millions", or "billionaires". They tried to end them for people earning $250,000 - the business people that also employ most Americans.

You are seeing class warfare promoted here with many false statements.

That's for sure...it's really hard to be generous with your BS.

The Democrats tried to place the line at 1 Million...it even passed the house, but the senate? FILIBUSTER.

Congressional Democrats offered two attempts to extend the Bush-era rates for "middle income" families but restore the previous, higher rates for "high income" people.

The first proposal had a cutoff at $250,000, while the second raised the dividing line to $1 million. Both proposals were able to pass in the House, but on December 4, 2010, both fell short in the Senate, getting only 53 votes and not the 60 needed for cloture
en.wikipedia.org...

Seriously...save your propaganda for the uninformed.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Federal Taxes for roads, infrastructure and defense I have no problem with. When those tax dollars go to Social services, welfare and the like are not the responsibility of the Govt.
Local taxes for roads, infrastructure, police and local schools I have no problem with either. So long as the State dictates how the funds are used and how much are taken. Public schools are funded locally, but controlled on the Federal level, which is BS.

Taxes are not for civilization, as people got along just fine without the welfare programs before they were instituted.

reply to post by centurion1211


If they earned their money fairly I agree; however the richest people rarely ever do this. In many cases they make so much money because tehy corrupt the system and skewer the pay scale in their own favor so Michael Moore may have a point in these cases. However those that choose not to think it thorugh may not see this.

Originally posted by 46ACE
as if they snuck in at night and stole their meager savings from their unguarded piggy banks.

How did we punish them? Jail...never...uhh increased oversight? Not with the GOP in power...uh OK, how about increase the marginal tax rate, just a measly 2%?...nope never...well why don't we just give them all the money taxpayers have...That seems a reasonable punishment.....wait a minute...I was kidding.

This new Bloomberg article does an excellent job of breaking down the insanity.

The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion, an amount that approaches the value of everything produced in the country last year, to stem the longest recession since the 1930s…

The money works out to $42,105 for every man, woman and child in the U.S. and 14 times the $899.8 billion of currency in circulation…

The combined commitment has increased by 73 percent since November, when Bloomberg first estimated the funding, loans and guarantees at $7.4 trillion…

www.geldpress.com...

reply to post by macman

Taxes are not for civilization, as people got along just fine without the welfare programs before they were instituted.

Actually not all weren't. There were a lot of people who starved to death, died of what are really preventable conditions or had to beg on the street if they became disabled, just because they were poor.

I am sick of selfish people who think the preamble to the Constitution is "Me the Person", and not "We the People". This is OUR country, not just YOUR country, these are OUR taxes, not just YOUR taxes.

You may think it's socialist, but I think it's just plain humanitarian.

I don't mind part of my taxes (and yes I do pay taxes) going to social programs, if it helps someone else have a better life, or at least be able to live not on the streets, then that's a good thing.

reply to post by whatukno


Bottom line on the tax issue and the position of the TP, Fox, GOP etc...

When will the idealogical troops that carry the water for Freedomwerks, the Koch Brothers etc. realize that while they are being told they are fighting for "less taxes" that actually means "less taxes" for corporations and Millionaires/Billionaires? NOT THEM.

It's like the TP handlers keep patting them on the back and saying, don't worry...we will get around to your tax breaks eventually, just keep getting out there and shouting when we tell you.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by macman

 

Taxes are not for civilization, as people got along just fine without the welfare programs before they were instituted.

Actually not all weren't. There were a lot of people who starved to death, died of what are really preventable conditions or had to beg on the street if they became disabled, just because they were poor.

I am sick of selfish people who think the preamble to the Constitution is "Me the Person", and not "We the People". This is OUR country, not just YOUR country, these are OUR taxes, not just YOUR taxes.

You may think it's socialist, but I think it's just plain humanitarian.

I don't mind part of my taxes (and yes I do pay taxes) going to social programs, if it helps someone else have a better life, or at least be able to live not on the streets, then that's a good thing.

That is just it, everybody thinks that they are entitled but mr joe the plumber down the road from them is a "non-person" they don't count, the only person these people care for or acknowledge are themselves. They could give a darn if you or I have to starve while waiting tables for them in their posh restaurants. This is why I still stick by my solution, a firy burning ball hurling straight for our planet, a total reset back to pristineness, it may seem cold, and unfair to those that are not self centered, but it would also end their suffering, too.
And I am still waiting for that Dwigt to find a business name that hasn't gotten to the top of the pile without stepping on the backs of its' employees... I am in business classes right now. It would be absolutely no problem for me to research yet another business. But, I think he bowed out knowing he was full of it.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by macman

 

Taxes are not for civilization, as people got along just fine without the welfare programs before they were instituted.

Actually not all weren't. There were a lot of people who starved to death, died of what are really preventable conditions or had to beg on the street if they became disabled, just because they were poor.

I am sick of selfish people who think the preamble to the Constitution is "Me the Person", and not "We the People". This is OUR country, not just YOUR country, these are OUR taxes, not just YOUR taxes.

You may think it's socialist, but I think it's just plain humanitarian.

I don't mind part of my taxes (and yes I do pay taxes) going to social programs, if it helps someone else have a better life, or at least be able to live not on the streets, then that's a good thing.

So, in order to raise someone up, we must take from those that are successful?
No.
We the people is not in reference to welfare and social programs, it is within the Declaration of Independence from Great Britain.
America was not designed for the collective good, it was for the individual to take care of themselves and prosper on their own merits, not the collective, check your history.
If you want to help people, that is fine. Do so with your own money. I am tired of being forced to do so via taxes.
I donate time and money to what I see as important. It is not the job of the Govt to take care of people.
From the first colonies came a collective mentality. Everyone in the colony/village received equal shares of crops and food. Not all put in equally though. This failed and many perished.
When the colonies started to work on the basis of individual freedoms and capitalism, they and the people thrived. Those that did not work, did not and rightfully so.
It is not the job of the Govt to be compassionate with everyone's money. that is up to the individual.
My success or failure is mine and mine alone, at least it used to be.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr


America was built on the backs of slaves then on the backs of the working man ,

And it shouldn't follow that members of the white race 7+ generations after slavery should still be expected to be responsible for it......dumba$$.

Get off your a$$ and provide for yourself.

You are NOT my responsibility.